3lb 4oz roach???

[Alan Whitty]

 

[Alan Whitty]

It won't let me post on the above post, so here goes, the guy says it's a beautiful roach, but it doesn't look like a roach to me, mouth looks wrong, anal fins are more rudd like, so maybe a rudd/roach hybrid???

 

[Ray Roberts]

It’s not always easy to tell. This one was caught by a mate of mine a few years ago and looked like the real thing.

I’ve had some quite big hybrids in the past and most you can tell before they hit the net. The jury’s still out on this one.

 

[Mark Wintle]

I think it's more likely a roach x rudd than true roach - level lips, dorsal set back and two colour anal fin.

 

[markcw]

I saw that on FB and didn't think it was a true roach .

 

[RMNDIL]

It won't let me post on the above post, so here goes, the guy says it's a beautiful roach, but it doesn't look like a roach to me, mouth looks wrong, anal fins are more rudd like, so maybe a rudd/roach hybrid???

That was my instant thought too

 

[Ray Roberts]

The fish I posted earlier was in the Angling Times and they claimed to be a new record. The AT brought out some luminaries from the roach fishing world who said in their opinion it was a true roach. The captor wasn’t so sure and didn’t lodge a claim, he was mainly put off by the size of the fish.

Since then the record has gone up several times and there was a claim for a record from Carsington Reservoir for a fish weighing 4lb13oz in April last year, but I can’t find any more info on it. Maybe Mark Wintle would know more.

 

[Mark Wintle]

Since then the record has gone up several times and there was a claim for a record from Carsington Reservoir for a fish weighing 4lb13oz in April last year, but I can’t find any more info on it. Maybe Mark Wintle would know more.

I tried to find out what had happened to the claim for the 4-13 fish from someone on the BRFC but he wouldn't tell me. All I know is that it isn't the record and when the valid claims were ratified there was no mention of what had happened to this fish. I suspect there was a major omission in the procedure but what that was I really don't know.

 

[Ray Roberts]

I tried to find out what had happened to the claim for the 4-13 fish from someone on the BRFC but he wouldn't tell me. All I know is that it isn't the record and when the valid claims were ratified there was no mention of what had happened to this fish. I suspect there was a major omission in the procedure but what that was I really don't know.

Cheers Mark, I couldn’t find anything either.

 

[Blue Fisher]

I think the type of water has quite an influence on the shape of roach. The decent roach I have had have all come from relatively fast flowing rivers. Although some were old fish they were all a good shape. I was on a Welsh canal when a local caught his fish of a lifetime. There were very few people around and he needed to show someone. I think it was weighed at just over two. It did not look anything like the roach from the Hampshire rivers, far flatter on the underside. I did not question this at all since the chap was obviously overjoyed at his capture and I did not want to cast any doubt on it.

 

[peterjg]

To rely and try to trust the authenticity of a fish just from a photo is very open to "errors". For instance, I have caught fish which certainly looked right but from the photo the mouth shape or fins or colouring gave the fish a doubt to its species. It's so difficult to be certain that a fish is 'right' from a photo. Also fish from differing types of water can have different coloured fins and scales, fish from heavily coloured lakes or from flooded rivers and drains can be very pale. Even different strains of the same species from the same water can vary. Just a word of caution, you have to go with your own gut feeling and experience, if in doubt then it doesn't count!

 

[Philip]

The usual fin position & mouth shape along with branched ray and scale counts are pretty good indicators although there are cases where these can all seem to check out ok but you just get the feeling the fish is not quite 100%.

I remember some of the photos from Linch hill back in the past where you got the feeling there were some very carefully placed angler fingers over anal fins in the photos.

 

[Blue Fisher]

…….. Also fish from differing types of water can have different coloured fins and scales, fish from heavily coloured lakes or from flooded rivers and drains can be very pale. ……..

When I used to live bait for perch, to make access to the bait easy I would keep a few in a large white bucket, white was not on purpose I just happened to have one. The tiny Rudd I used would go very pale. I know some animals can change their colouration, I don’t know if this was my imagination but it seemed Rudd could do it.
I would not suggest you do it, but it may be interesting to catch a few roach and put them in different coloured buckets and the photograph them.
I won’t offer a prize for the first blue and yellow spotted roach.

 

[Philip]

Hybrid or not aside something else to consider :-

The biggest Drennan Speedex net is 20inches right ? ....and I thought Drennan measure from spreader block to front of net ?

Measuring direct off my screen with a ruler that would make that fish about 14inches from nose to fork of tail....I dont know of any weight to length chart for Roach that would put a 14inch fish anywhere near 3lb+

However if Drennan measure the net across the widest points the fish is around 16/17 inches from nose to fork ...which could make it around the size claimed.

....Anyone have a speedex net and want to measure it ?

 

[The Sogster]

Here's mine - they do a 20" version though.

 

[Philip]

Thanks Sogster but what size was yours sold as ...... 18 inch model ?

 

[The Sogster]

Philip, I belive it is. The tape overhangs the rim slightly - it is 18" from outside edge of rim to base of spreader block (top of thread, plastic to plastic).

 

[Philip]

Thanks again Sogster. In that case it indicates that Drennan measure their nets from spreader to rim and not across the net.

Now I am not totally comfortable to say this given the captor is not here to speak for himself …but...

Lets assume the captor of the fish in the original post is using the biggest speedex net which is 20inch. Using a ruler off my screen to compare the fish to the net it shows the fish to be around 13inches from tip of nose to fork of tail (anyone can do the same for themselves to check).

Below is a Roach length to weight graph…yes I know these are never perfect but its to give an indication.

I’ll let people draw their own conclusions.

 

[Ray Roberts]

Ooh, I’ve just come over a bit Martin Gay, and I don’t think any of us want to go down that route, lol.

 

[mikench]

Who is Martin Gay when he is at home? Did you mean Marvin Gay and his song I heard it through the grapevine By any chance.