Acolyte feeder breaking strain

[Kevin aka Aethelbald]

I'm wondering what BS main line to put on my 11ft Acolyte Plus feeder (for rivers only) Drennan says between 6-8lbs. I've been fly fishing for 40 years, so this is all new to me. I'll probably stick to the Avon this season - Marcliff, Barton, Wasperton - Warwickshire and Worcestershire.

The reason I ask, is that while float fishing (for the first time) this week, I've been broken by a large mirror carp on the Avon, at roughly the same time of day in the same place, three days in a row. Obviously, for float fishing, I'm on light tackle - 4lb through to 3lb, and the pre-tied hooks were stripped twice (a little spiral of line visible where the hook once was) and then after tying my own hook, it broke me there too, but above the hook.

Each time I encountered the carp, it went in to lily pads and stopped dead - it looked about 18ins to 2ft... a river monster! I thought if I rig up a feeder I'll try for it again, since my feeder rod has more backbone. I even thought about rigging the feeder rod up with a float, just during the hour that I met Mr Carp, since that's how I hooked him each time.

Either way, I've never used a feeder rod, so I was thinking 8lb mainline and 5lb-6lb hook length. Is that enough for the carp and barbel I hope to find? Is it too much for general river feeder fishing? Should I also load the spare spool with 5lb (which is what the tackle shop gave me with the rod) and either go straight through, or use lighter hook lengths?

Thanks.
.

 

[mikench]

If you are after a specific and large carp then your tactics and gear should be geared to this rather than feeder fishing in general. If using say a hybrid feeder then try Guru QM1 hooks to nylon in size 10 or 12 . The bs of the 4” or 15” Hooklength will be at least 9lb. If using a river flat bed feeder and a longer hook length try a larger hook or specific carp rig. For a big fish ( carp or barbel) use 10 or 12 lb line. Your hook will be determined by the bait used and the size of the fish ie 6 or 8. All of this could be too much for your feeder rod and something stronger will be needed.

 

[riverman]

i use 8lb maxima line when targeting barbel.i dont bother with hook lengths and tie a spade end size 10/12 kamasan animal hook on.trust me if youre targeting barbel you'll need strong gear as these things hang on for dear life.
tight lines.

 

[Keith M]

If I were using an Avon rod; of around 1.25lb plus test curve; or even a decent Barbel rod of around 1.7lb test curve; in warm low water conditions (like now) I would usually be using 6lb line either straight through to the hook or with a 5lb hooklength; however if there is some colour in the water and there’s a few snags then I would step up to 8lb line straight through to the hook or maybe a Barbel rod (1.5lb or 1.7lb Tc) using 10lb main line with an 8lb hook length if it’s particularly snaggy or choked with streamer weed.

When I’m trotting a float for Barbel and/or Chub on one of my narrow streams between beds of streamer weed then I’m usually using 6lb main line either straight through to my hook or with a 5lb hooklength when the water is really clear and low.
When you are experiencing a short spiral of line when losing your hook then it’s usually caused by the hook knot unravelling and coming undone so it sounds like your hooks were not tied on that good.

NB: It depends on the line I’m using but; Diawa Sensor under states it’s breaking strains quite a bit; for example 6lb Sensor actually breaks at nearer 8lb; and the same goes for a couple of other lines out there.

Keith

 

[Golden Eagle]

Given what you have experienced, I would say a hooklength is an absolute must. If you hook this carp again, fishing say, 6lb line, and it snags you again, you’re in a right pickle.

In the circumstances described I’d go for 8lb mainline to a 7 or 8lb hooklength. (Being shorter, so less stretch, the hooklength should give before the mainline even if same stated breaking strain).

I think you’re very close to the upper limit of what that rod is designed for, to be honest. They are very fine rods, I have 4, but river carp in a snaggy swim will be a challenge.

I’d also be concerned about how your hooklengths are breaking, as mentioned above and concur with the recommendation of pre-tied guru QM1, that’s a brilliant feeder hook.

Good luck and let us know how you fare please.

 

[Kevin aka Aethelbald]

Thanks chaps. After starting the thread I took my car to have some work done on it and had time to think this one over a bit more.

A few of you are suggesting that I might just be asking too much of my rod, just to try and catch an exceptional fish... frustrating as that may be! The irony is that I've no interest whatsoever in fishing carp lakes, but this one feels like a challenge... maybe a challenge too far.

So, on the Avon, am I right in thinking most of the barbel would be single figure fish? (I'd be more than happy with any single figure barbel). And should I therefore think of those fish as being the limit of my gear and tactics? And accept that I just don't have the right gear for a one-off, double figure, carp?

Is that basically what you guys are thinking?

Thanks again.
.

 

[john step]

Its difficult isnt it? At one time one would never encounter a carp in a river.
Its the same conundrum nowadays on many lake fisheries when one wants to fish for silvers. Fish light for roach-get busted. Step up the tackle and get few roach bites.
I would say though that river carp are fitter and more powerful than a lot of lake ones.

A change of location to avoid carp? Not nice to leave a hook in a fish.
A challenge to catch it on more appropriate tackle?
If I was to deliberately target this carp especially near pads I would use 15lb bs and a similar flouro hooklink. With a carp rod of course.

As to what line for your Acolyte, I tend to take a middle course with such rods. Sometimes the upper figure feels wrong so a pound or drop is often the way to go.

 

[Keith M]

If I were fishing for Barbel under the far bank of a smallish to mid sized river and was able to bring them away into a fairly snag free area of the river to try to tame them then I would feel fairly confident in landing them on a 1.25lb Avon type rod; however; although I have caught a few Barbel on my 1.25lb Avon rod when after Chub; it was often stretching the rod to its limits as far as control was concerned on a small river especially with beds of streamer weed to contend with.

Stepping up to a 1.5lb Barbel rod or 1.7lb Barbel rod would be a lot more sensible in my view. Plus you can often get 7lb Barbel that will fight even harder than a 10lb Barbel on occasion; so size is not always a good marker when talking about matching sizes of Barbel with rod test curves; and if I had to then I’d say that a 1.25lb Avon rod is more suitable for catching and landing smaller 5 or 6lb max Barbel on small streams or rivers, even though it is still possible to catch larger Barbel, when things do go right, but it’s stretching it a bit in my view.

Keith

 

[Kevin aka Aethelbald]

So, at risk off asking the dumbest of questions - what species should I expect target with my Acolyte Plus feeder rod on the Avon? Feeder fishing, or ledgering, was a bit of an afterthought when I got my float rod... hence, I've not done my homework.

So far, on the float, I've fished as deep as I can, but also caught a foot or two off the bottom. I've caught loads of perch (some nice ones, that put up a good fight, but give up easily enough), rudd, bream and lots of smaller fish that, honestly, I'm not sure what they are.
.

 

[nottskev]

I'd say river carp of that size are beyond the capabilities of medium feeder rods even with 8lb line. Even more so when you mention lilies. Large carp can be caught from water like snag-free commercials on medium gear, as the carp can be played out in open water, and you have time and space to learn on the job and even make a couple of mistakes. The same might apply if your length of river is similarly featureless. But add in lily beds and it's a different matter. A hooked carp will make a bee-line for these and your gear needs to be up to stopping it from reaching them and burrowing in, and all this will happen before you have much chance to think about it. The speed and power of river carp and barbel over the first few yards are something else. If I were to get smashed up by what looks like a resident big carp, I'd be going back to try and catch it with uncompromising gear - 2lb+ tc barbel rod and line of at least 12lb. I often fish for barbel in snaggy swims, and anything under 15lb line in these is asking for trouble. I'm a big fan of light gear for most of my fishing, but some things need special gear.

Sounds like a report on the How Did You Get On thread where people do little accounts of their sessions/catches would be interesting. Put up a pic of any fish, and someone here will identify it.

 

[rob48]

Chub will be your main target with that gear at the venues you've listed.

 

[rob48]

If you want to try for the carp again, leave it until a mild late autumn/early winter day when the fish are slightly less energetic but more importantly the weed and vegetation is dying back. To illustrate the difference that can make I caught a 9lb something barbel on a 1.5lb H/L on a match rod in a club match one November. That was on the Avon, at Abbot's Salford. I had to run into overtime to land it and the fish was weighed separately on the club's scales. There was still some weed in the river but it was in various stages of decay and the line cut through it when the fish went in it. At this time of year it would have been all over in about twenty seconds or less.

 

[Keith M]

I’ve only fished the river avon in Warwickshire a few times over the years and I don’t remember seeing a lot of streamer weed or many snags (that’s not saying that they’re not there of course) so I would have thought that your rod should be quite capable for targeting its larger Chub and low double figure Carp and also it’s lower to mid size Barbel; but I don’t think the rod would really be ideal for targeting the larger sized Barbel and Carp.

Keith

 

[rob48]

I’ve only fished the river avon in Warwickshire a few times over the years and I didn’t see a lot of streamer weed or many snags so I would have thought that your rod should be quite capable for targeting its larger Chub and low double figure Carp and also it’s mid sized and smaller Barbel.

Keith

There isn't much streamer weed except for the shallower areas, Wasperton being one of them. The main snags are lilly-pad type things with very strong stems and those ones that grow on the bottom that look a bit like lettuce or cabbages.

 

[Kevin aka Aethelbald]

Just been up to Manor Angling and Howard was there - he's been away all week. He thought that the 5lb Dave Harrell Pro Feeder line I bought a few weeks ago was perfect for general feeder/running ledger on the Avon (for chub, bream, tench and small barbel)... which is why he sold it to me in the first place! I'll see how that goes - and if Mr Carp turns up again, see if I can handle him any better on the feeder rod than on the float rod, and try to keep him out of the weeds.

I was worried (having "all the gear and no idea!") that coarse fishing wouldn't be as enjoyable as fly fishing, but I've loved every minute of it. The Avon is such a nice river... too many boats doing more than 4/6mph, but I suppose you've got to have something to moan about.
.
.

 

[Golden Eagle]

I think the carp is an exceptional fish as your set up is reasonable for the general type of fishing you’re doing.

If you’re targeting the carp in particular, then your gear is at, or beyond, its limits and I’d seriously think of stepping up.

However, for general fishing as you’ve described I’d say you’ve been well advised.

 

[Kevin aka Aethelbald]

Had a short session yesterday afternoon on the Avon. BIG mistake on a sunny summer's Sunday. BAA car park full of people ignoring the numerous signs (or can't read), and using the fishing platforms for diving and paddle board launch pads.

We pay to access the river for fishing and I pay twice over for the license to use my canoe - and these people pay bu99er all... I guess there's not much you can do, other than ask them to move if they're on a favourite peg, which they were not, thankfully. A couple of the kids were obviously a little better bred - asked me if they were anywhere near my line, which I thanked them for.

Anyway, used my feeder rod for the first time. Missed loads of bites, ie. 9/10 (must figure out what I'm doing wrong because I miss maybe 2/10 on the float) until landing a massive eel. At first I thought it was Mr Carp, but then it gave up easily enough. After that, I packed up and left the locals to it.
.
.

 

[nottskev]

I may have the wrong end of the stick here, and someone who's regular on your river will say so, but your post reminded me of something.

Light legering for roach (often called link legering in ref to the set up) is a notoriously demanding and tricky branch of legering, every bit as subtle as float-fishing.

In the days when river match fishing was most popular, I'd often go to Evesham on the fishing festival weekend to watch the stars of the day compete. More than once I've seen anglers of the highest calibre - in one case a multiple World Champion - throw their rods down in frustration after missing a series of roach bites. You might have been getting bites on your feeder off little dace or whatever, but you might find this interesting from an angler who knows his stuff.

 

[Kevin aka Aethelbald]

Thanks ^^^ I'll watch that later. ....

... later: just watched it, I've seen a few his video's - nice bloke.

 

[Kevin aka Aethelbald]

Rather than starting a new thread with another (daft?) question, humour me on hook lengths.

If I tie a hook length for link ledgering of say 15", but then decide I want to try it longer - and given that the difference in breaking strain between the hook length and main line is only 1lb - rather than tie a new hook length, is it not simply a matter of moving the stopper, so that the ledger weight is higher up the main line?

Thanks.
.
.