Coarse/Course Fishing??

[dezza]

In Victorian times, the quarry of a gentleman was defined as 'game' including partridge, deer, hares, and of course, salmon, seatrout and brown trout. That left the remainder of freshwater fish as unworthy of a gentleman. But these (coarse) fish are much more common and that is the meaning of 'coarse' i.e. 'common' or 'inferior'. Bear in mind that angling/fishing pressure and increasing pollution in the 19th century would have reduced the number of waters holding game fish making those that remained more desirable and exclusive.

Ledger comes from lidger which is a book that lies in one place which is what our fishing weight does. From old English licgan, to lie. It seems the leger form is because both spellings have been in common use for a long time so that no one's sure which is correct.

I am of course talking about times well before Queen Victoria. During the time of Henry VIII, perch were regarded as a real delicacy, as well they might.

 

[Mark Wintle]

And what evidence do you have of the term 'coarse fish' from before Victorian times then, Ron?

 

[dezza]

I do not have any evidence of the term "coarse fish" or how it came about at all.

Even at the time of the Mundella Act, species which were not members of the salmon family were called "freshwater fish". The term "coarse" was unknown.

All I do know is that many people valued perch, pike, grayling and eels for food, highly. They also valued trout of course.

 

[MarkTheSpark]

The term 'coarse fishing' was in common usage when Sheringham wrote his book 'Coarse Fishing' in the 1920s. One can only assume, since he chose it as the book's title, that it was very broadly understood by then, and my guess is that it predates the book by at least 20 years.

 

[Cakey]

Wiki says "The term "coarse fishing" originated in the United Kingdom in the early 19th century. Prior to that time, recreational fishing was a sport of the gentry, who angled for salmon and trout which they called "game fish". Other fish were disdained as "coarse fish"."

---------- Post added at 10:09 ---------- Previous post was at 10:08 ----------

and I believe everthing that Wiki says as its the nets Sun !

 

[Mr Cholmondeley-Corker (PaSC)]

Meanwhile, in Wales anglers spoke of "Llllllllllllllygh fysh"

 

[Derek Gibson]

Practical fishing for the so called coarse fisher's. A book by J.W. Martin, date of publication 1906.

I am as certain as I can be that the term was in use some 40 years before that. I'll check through some of my older books, to see if we can pin it down.

 

[Mark Wintle]

Wheeley's book 'Coarse Fish' 1897. No mention (short of reading the entire book) in 'A book on Angling' Francis Francis 1860.

 

[Derek Gibson]

Wheeley's book 'Coarse Fish' 1897. No mention (short of reading the entire book) in 'A book on Angling' Francis Francis 1860.

Mark, J.W. Martin again ''The Nottingham Style of Float Fishing and Spinning'', second edition 1885 on title page. Being a treatise on the so-called coarse fishes, with instructions for their capture.

I will continue the search.

 

[Mark Wintle]

Derek,

I'm reasonably convinced that this term came into being sometime in the 1850s or 1860s. At that time something of a tackle development miracle occurred that changed the way that most angling was conducted. The significant changes were much better reels instead of 'winches', new materials for rods and the development of 'gut'. These developments changed the styles of fishing possible - fly fishing went from long rods with blow lines, trotting became possible, as did spinning. The ongoing industrial revolution improved manufacturing hence better tackle but also contributed to the reduction in trout and salmon holding rivers which became 'exclusive' and a prerogative of the rich.

 

[dezza]

Certainly there was a time when instead of using a long rod to "dap" on the surface of the water, or even "walk" the fly downstream (Walton described this), the angler started casting. Because this demanded skill and specialised rods and lines which cost money, fly fishing became the perogative of the well endowed.

It was even thought that it was only the aristocracy that possessed the great skills needed to cast a fly line.

The early fly "casting" rods were made from greenheart with even materials like whalebone spliced in. Compared with modern rods, they must have been horrible lumbering affairs.

Then along came split cane from the USA. What a true revolution that must have been. But a split cane rod was way out of the reach of the "working man" angler as JW Martin called him.

And I have noticed that a wheel has turned full circle. There is a style of fly fishing being performed on rivers where virtually there is no casting involved. The angler using a fairly long rod, drops a fast sinking nymph into the water upstream of himself, suspending the nymph or nymphs below a bouyant bung. The bung is followed downstream with the rod tip and a bite is signified by the bung going under.

Fly fishing or what?

It's called "Czech Nymphing".

 

[Jeff Woodhouse]

I've speed scanned through my information on the Close Season, c 1878, and there's no reference to "coarse" fish.

Whether it is included in the original Act or not I don't know, but the first proposals concerned individual species of fish, ie: no dace or dare (?) be taken during the months of March and April ...... and so on.



What the devil was a dare?

 

[Alan Tyler]

Dace, dare and dart were all local names for the same fish. Allegedly.

 

[dezza]

Some years ago I did an article on the origin of the Close Season for the Angling Star. This required some research, and I was able to complete this with the help of The Monk who has a great deal of angling history on his bookshelves.

As some of us know, the Mundella Act of 1878, put forward in Parliament by a whig MP for Sheffield, became law that year. In all the various correspondence and Hansard records consulted, there was not one reference to "coarse fish". Other than salmon and trout, they were all called: "Freshwater Fish". The reason for this is that game fish, the trout and salmon have a tendency to migrate to the ocean and then come back again, ascending the rivers to spawn.

Even grayling were relegated to "freshwater fish".

 

[Jeff Woodhouse]

they were all called: "Freshwater Fish"

Exactly what I found. So, does this mean that in 1878 (at least) they still didn't refer to coarse fish as coarse fish? You'd have thought they would have, if so.

 

[Stealph Viper]

Rough or coarse fish usually refers to fish that are not commonly eaten, not sought after for sporting reasons, or have become invasive species reducing the populations of desirable fish. They compete for forage fish with the more popular sport fish. They are often regarded as a nuisance, and are not usually protected by game laws. Forage fish generally are not considered rough or coarse fish because of their usefulness as bait.

That's what it is described as in wikipedia, alas, it doesn't have a date to say when this term was first commonly used, but it does say around the 19th Century.

 

[Mark Wintle]

Stealph,

It's the exact date that we're trying to establish, at least to a decade anyway. Just because it's in Wiki doesn't make it accurate. Mid Victorian seems the best best so far. We know why the name came about.

 

[Stealph Viper]

Thank you for that insight Mark,

The 19th century seems a good starting point for those that have yet to ascertain the exact date to within a decade.

Perhaps if they looked up Rough Fishing, it might help.

Everyone else reading this may not know why the name came about, sorry, perhaps next time i should leave the Thread Postings to the Professionals