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Philip Inzani
Guest
This may seem like a dumb question but why does everyone seem to use drop off indicators when Pike fishing. What advanatages do they give over say a normal hanging bobbin ?
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Chris Bishop
Guest
They show drop backs and bobbins are all-but impossible to use on waters which pull hard like Fen drains and faster rivers.
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Rob Brownfield
Guest
The main reason for using a drop off, is so that when a Pike runs with the bait, once the *drop off* has indeed....dropped off...there is no friction or tension on the line. However, I sometimes fish drop offs with the bait runner set quite tight, almost like a bolt rig for pike.
Another advantage is that u get far fewer anonoying bleeps when fishing livebaits....which are a complete pain if you use a conventional bobbin.
Another advantage is that u get far fewer anonoying bleeps when fishing livebaits....which are a complete pain if you use a conventional bobbin.
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Chris Bishop
Guest
Fishing off the baitrunners is loads better, notwithstanding extra resistance.
You can hit takes quicker because you don't have to sort out all the loose coils of line that come flying off before you pick the rod up.
We had a long debate about bolt rigging a while back. Invent a reliable self-hooking rig and you'd save a lot of dep-hooked pike.
You can hit takes quicker because you don't have to sort out all the loose coils of line that come flying off before you pick the rod up.
We had a long debate about bolt rigging a while back. Invent a reliable self-hooking rig and you'd save a lot of dep-hooked pike.
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Jonathan Faro
Guest
I use drop backs simply because there attacthed to the banki sticks so I don't lose them compared to something hanging on. Also the ones I had till they got destroyed by a particulary mad carp had adjustable weight and tension.
Jonathan
Jonathan
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BUDGIE BURGESS
Guest
I use drop off style indicators as they offer least resistance to a running fish and show up drop backs best.They are also extremely visual.I do not use a baitrunner as I prefer an open spool in all but extreme curents.I have seen far too many dropped runs with baitrunners.If you have a problem with loose coils etc then you are not loading your spools correctly or using the wrong type of line.Then again I am not an instant striker.
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Philip Inzani
Guest
Thanks guys...follow on questions...
Doesn't a bobbin shows drop backs ? and can't I add weight to a bobbin to counteract a current ? I think Rob mentions lack of resistance after the indicator has dropped but then surely you cannot see what is happening after that ? What if the Pike gave one big tug pulling the line from the clip then dropped the bait? Would a bobbin in that instance actually be an advantage as you can still see whats going on easily? Is the reason you get loads of annoying bleeps with livebaits beacuse their is not enough weight on the bobbin?
Reason I asked the question is beacuse quite some time back a guy accused me of fishing dangerously as I was using a bobbin....what do you think ?
Doesn't a bobbin shows drop backs ? and can't I add weight to a bobbin to counteract a current ? I think Rob mentions lack of resistance after the indicator has dropped but then surely you cannot see what is happening after that ? What if the Pike gave one big tug pulling the line from the clip then dropped the bait? Would a bobbin in that instance actually be an advantage as you can still see whats going on easily? Is the reason you get loads of annoying bleeps with livebaits beacuse their is not enough weight on the bobbin?
Reason I asked the question is beacuse quite some time back a guy accused me of fishing dangerously as I was using a bobbin....what do you think ?
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Rob Brownfield
Guest
I hit my runs straight away, prefering the Partridge VB Double hooks over trebles so, so, as soon as the drop off either drops back or drops off because of the pike moving off, I hit the fish. If it is running from me, I close the bail arm, and watch the line at the tip of the rod. 99 times outta 100 the line is still moving, so I wind down and lean into the fish and hold. I NEVER strike a pike. Just wind down, lift the rod smartly, and keep it bent until u feel the head shaking.
I very rearly ger drop backs because I use a heavy lead, which means no matter what way the fish runs, I get a positive indication.
If you ever think the pike has dropped the bait, hold the line in your fingers, and if u use braid, u can actually feel the fish mouthing the bait!!!
Hope this helps
I very rearly ger drop backs because I use a heavy lead, which means no matter what way the fish runs, I get a positive indication.
If you ever think the pike has dropped the bait, hold the line in your fingers, and if u use braid, u can actually feel the fish mouthing the bait!!!
Hope this helps
GrahamM
Managing Editor
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A bobbin lies at the bottom of a 'V' in the line and as such doesn't indicate a drop-back to anywhere near the same degree as a drop-off indicator clipped up correctly.
When a pike snatches the line from the clip of a drop-off indicator the indicator does just that - drops off, triggering the alarm.
What I do next is pick the rod up and take up the slack line. Then I hold the line between finger and thumb and pull gently but steadily until I can feel the fish - or not. This takes just a second or two. If the fish is felt I strike immediately. If not I return the rod to the rest and clip up again.
If a drop-off indicator is set correctly, a fish has only to move the bait slightly, in any direction, to trigger an indication. That's not true of a bobbin which, because of the 'V', is not having enough influence on the line.
Using a very heavy bobbin helps, but has a negative effect in that if the fish moves away from you it isn't entirely free to do so, unlike the drop-off that has become unclipped.
Drop-off indicators for pike were devised because bobbins and conventional bite alarms were not efficient enough to register delicate slack line bites.
The angler who told you that you were fishing dangerously had a point but would have been better explaining why.
When a pike snatches the line from the clip of a drop-off indicator the indicator does just that - drops off, triggering the alarm.
What I do next is pick the rod up and take up the slack line. Then I hold the line between finger and thumb and pull gently but steadily until I can feel the fish - or not. This takes just a second or two. If the fish is felt I strike immediately. If not I return the rod to the rest and clip up again.
If a drop-off indicator is set correctly, a fish has only to move the bait slightly, in any direction, to trigger an indication. That's not true of a bobbin which, because of the 'V', is not having enough influence on the line.
Using a very heavy bobbin helps, but has a negative effect in that if the fish moves away from you it isn't entirely free to do so, unlike the drop-off that has become unclipped.
Drop-off indicators for pike were devised because bobbins and conventional bite alarms were not efficient enough to register delicate slack line bites.
The angler who told you that you were fishing dangerously had a point but would have been better explaining why.
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Philip Inzani
Guest
Thanks for the info guys.
If they are so good at showing drop backs and also lead to less resistance to a fish taking line....why are we not seeing other types of anglers using them?
If they are so good at showing drop backs and also lead to less resistance to a fish taking line....why are we not seeing other types of anglers using them?
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BUDGIE BURGESS
Guest
Robs comment about never getting drop backs because he uses heavy leads is fine but I guess that he only uses ledgered deads? A lot of my Piking is done with Live baits(PC or not it is a fact)These I often use on a sunken paternoster rig.Drop back bites are commonly given on this set up more so than many others.The reason being that the Pike inevitabley strike upwards from the deeper water.The type of indication you use will certainly depend on your methods.For me the dropp off works best.As Graham pointed out the indication on a dropp off is far more dramatic than the same on a bobbin.
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Philip Inzani
Guest
Budgie, I think that a fair point, I use a Paternoster alot too and you do seem to get alot of drop backs with it. Do you think the resistance in the setup rod side of it is also contributing to the number of drop backs ?..the PIke grabs the bait and the easiest way to move is back towards the rod casuing the line to fall slack line rather than pull line from the reel ?
About the drop off indicator, I think many of the guys posting on the forum are going to have fished for Pike longer than me so its very interesting when some very experienced anglers whom I have a great deal of respect for suggest that using a bobbin (may) constitute to dangerous fishing. This has really got me thinking. If this is true then I need to rethink what I am doing fast and I will have no hesitation in going out today and buying some drop off indicators.
Problem is I just dont see it. If it realmly is consituting a danger then are 90% of Carp anglers also fishing dangerously? I can accept that in certain circumstances a drop off may offer some advantages but then I think a bobbin is better in others...horses for courses.
What do others think ? Any non Pikers want to comment as well ?
About the drop off indicator, I think many of the guys posting on the forum are going to have fished for Pike longer than me so its very interesting when some very experienced anglers whom I have a great deal of respect for suggest that using a bobbin (may) constitute to dangerous fishing. This has really got me thinking. If this is true then I need to rethink what I am doing fast and I will have no hesitation in going out today and buying some drop off indicators.
Problem is I just dont see it. If it realmly is consituting a danger then are 90% of Carp anglers also fishing dangerously? I can accept that in certain circumstances a drop off may offer some advantages but then I think a bobbin is better in others...horses for courses.
What do others think ? Any non Pikers want to comment as well ?
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Chris Bishop
Guest
You get more drop-backs because it's easier for the lead to roll and slacken the rig with a paternoster, because the float and the tension you put in the rig reduce its hold on the bottom.
You cam't really compare carp and pike fishing, because you don't really run the same risks of deep hooking with carp.
As I understand it, most carp rigs are designed to hook the fish for you; whereas a pike will usually swallow the bait down - risking deep-hooking - if you don't hit the take quickly enough.
I've tried bobbins on a long drop for zander in an effort to hit more takes. In the end I went in completely the other direction and started float fishing for them, which solved most of the problems.
You cam't really compare carp and pike fishing, because you don't really run the same risks of deep hooking with carp.
As I understand it, most carp rigs are designed to hook the fish for you; whereas a pike will usually swallow the bait down - risking deep-hooking - if you don't hit the take quickly enough.
I've tried bobbins on a long drop for zander in an effort to hit more takes. In the end I went in completely the other direction and started float fishing for them, which solved most of the problems.
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Philip Inzani
Guest
Chris, yes, I think we are talking about the same thing for the Paternoster drop backs. For Carp I agree bolt/resistance type rigs are popular but so are running rigs. I think deep hooking is a risk with any fish...Perch in particular are really at risk here I belive as the hearts is in the back of the gullet.
However what you are saying is the whole crux of the problem, Do bobbins really mean a greater chance of deep hooking?
..not all takes are drop backs ?
However what you are saying is the whole crux of the problem, Do bobbins really mean a greater chance of deep hooking?
..not all takes are drop backs ?
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Paul Williams
Guest
Philip, i use both drop offs and bobbins, the drop offs are used for predator fishing and my bobbins (clip on solar type) are used for everything from bolt rigging for roach to carping.
In all honesty a heavy bobbin on a clipped up tight line set up (clipped up behind the bobbin!!)will in mind register about the same as a drop off, its the same old story setting it up and understanding what the setup needs to do.
I have seen drop fished dangerously (line trapped in a clip) and i have seen bobbins fished dangerously (insuffiecent weight)
In capable hands both methods would imho work,got a feeling you would fall into this catagory!
If you do decide to drop offs i would suggest that you attach additional weight so that they drop like a stone and that the clip slides on the mainline rather holds it.
But weight is very important in both cases as far as i am concerned.
Incedently i recently purchased 3 ghetto blaster drop off alarms, the arms are imo to short and not heavy enough to work as well as i would like, so it looks like messing about with them!! i bought them because i didn't like the way the mercury ones could hang and not register a drop back ( you see them set like that in mag articles!!) anyone else think the same??
In all honesty a heavy bobbin on a clipped up tight line set up (clipped up behind the bobbin!!)will in mind register about the same as a drop off, its the same old story setting it up and understanding what the setup needs to do.
I have seen drop fished dangerously (line trapped in a clip) and i have seen bobbins fished dangerously (insuffiecent weight)
In capable hands both methods would imho work,got a feeling you would fall into this catagory!
If you do decide to drop offs i would suggest that you attach additional weight so that they drop like a stone and that the clip slides on the mainline rather holds it.
But weight is very important in both cases as far as i am concerned.
Incedently i recently purchased 3 ghetto blaster drop off alarms, the arms are imo to short and not heavy enough to work as well as i would like, so it looks like messing about with them!! i bought them because i didn't like the way the mercury ones could hang and not register a drop back ( you see them set like that in mag articles!!) anyone else think the same??
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Chris Bishop
Guest
I abandoned the Fox ones because they just weren't sensitive enough.
You'd think longer arms would equal more sensitivity, but it's all in the clip and amount of weight, which needs to be balanced so it'll just hold - too much mucking about for my liking.
At the end of the day you can debate this one till the cows come home, it all comes down to the waters you fish. I rarely leger without a float now, only on drains and rivers when they're hammering through and I want to hold a bait on a feature.
You'd think longer arms would equal more sensitivity, but it's all in the clip and amount of weight, which needs to be balanced so it'll just hold - too much mucking about for my liking.
At the end of the day you can debate this one till the cows come home, it all comes down to the waters you fish. I rarely leger without a float now, only on drains and rivers when they're hammering through and I want to hold a bait on a feature.
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Rob Brownfield
Guest
Budgie, you are correct, I only use deadbaits. However, even when paternostering deads, I dont get drop backs, because I use a running rig. If a fish runs towards me the lead may shift a little but the line still runs freely and I get the drop off dropping.
What I must say however, is I use Delkims and a Fox adjustable drop off indicator. I do not like mercury tilt indicators as far too many times I have had a single bleep, seen the drop off move slightly and stay there...and thats all the indication I have got. On holding the line (braid) I have felt the fish chomping the bait and so have struck.
I guess it is down to preferance....
What I must say however, is I use Delkims and a Fox adjustable drop off indicator. I do not like mercury tilt indicators as far too many times I have had a single bleep, seen the drop off move slightly and stay there...and thats all the indication I have got. On holding the line (braid) I have felt the fish chomping the bait and so have struck.
I guess it is down to preferance....
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Paul Williams
Guest
Rob, probably a different debate but do you believe a running rig really does "run" especially with a SPN rig?
Totally agree with you about the mercury drop offs, they can be risky, i looked into them after a similar thread and thats why i opted for a cam type rear alarm.
Totally agree with you about the mercury drop offs, they can be risky, i looked into them after a similar thread and thats why i opted for a cam type rear alarm.
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BUDGIE BURGESS
Guest
Been some good things said on this subject.The most important thing is that people are concerned enough about the Pikes welfare too look at and question what they do.Free running pat rigs can certainly be running with enough weight but there is IMO so much resistance caused that it defeats the whole object!
It is very important not too allow your carp and pike ideas to mingle they are very different fish.Sadly I see a lot of Pike suffer when caught using Carp tactics and attitudes.I suppose a lot of the reason behind liking or not liking Drop offs is wether you subscribe to the theory of Pike not liking resistance or not.I do and feel that a drop off gives minimal resistance to a run but shows up drop backs best.Good point about the line especially braid becoming caught in the jaws of the line clip.This can happen with both the conventional line clip and the "free flow" type if attention is not paid.Phillip if you are not sure try setting up a rod with a bobbin on in your garden and a rod with a drop off and feel the difference for your self?
It is very important not too allow your carp and pike ideas to mingle they are very different fish.Sadly I see a lot of Pike suffer when caught using Carp tactics and attitudes.I suppose a lot of the reason behind liking or not liking Drop offs is wether you subscribe to the theory of Pike not liking resistance or not.I do and feel that a drop off gives minimal resistance to a run but shows up drop backs best.Good point about the line especially braid becoming caught in the jaws of the line clip.This can happen with both the conventional line clip and the "free flow" type if attention is not paid.Phillip if you are not sure try setting up a rod with a bobbin on in your garden and a rod with a drop off and feel the difference for your self?