Gossip

[Andrew Miller]

I made the mistake of introducing my son to Carp fishing first and caught loads of 4 to 6 lbers and quite a few low doubles carp. His 1st few pike were nearly all doubles too. He jumped at the chance to fish for these larger fish but he got no interest in going after pound roach or 3 lb chub on the river which to me is far more fun! So like today technology I think everything is going too fast and the simple enjoyment is now lost

 

[Malcolm Bason]

Ahem!!! Excuse me chaps!

We seem to have moved ever so slightly from the question originally posed by Philip Inzani:

"I heard that there may have been a very significant Carp capture, possibly an unknown fish....does anyone know some more about this ?"

Though the resultant idscussion/debate was/is extremely interesting, I would appreciate some more comment on this original question - if you don't mind? Please don't get me wrong, I'm not a trophy hunter - I won't be packing my kit in the car and zooming off to try and catch it! (me catch it - that's a laugh LOL)I'm just interested, thats all.

 

[Carp Angler]

I put up what I heard and now we'll have to wait for Phil to get back to work on Monday to give us some more info.

And yes, I think all the thread is inter-related.

 

[Malcolm Bason]

Sorry, Carp Angler - I didn't mean to offend by asking that we go back to the original question, I realise the thread is inter-related - I was/am intrigued that's all. I haven't even had a 15lb'er as yet, so the thought of a possible '60', well........???

 

[DAVE COOPER]

(Sorry Malcolm but I'm gonna alter the thread back again for a minute or two).

Graham - I understand your attitude to a point, but don't you think the importation of outsize fish makes a mockery of the records and achievements of those who have gone before. The record carp these days has about as much credibility as a labour politician. From when Walker caught his 44 pounder up until, and shortly after, Chris Yates broke his record, the carp record was almost magical, rather like the roach record still is. Now it's a farce.

General run of the mill anglers don't care about the record anymore and if someone wants a 60lb carp, well let's import one from France, catch it 5 minutes later and claim a record. The catfish is the same.

I appreciate the carp and catfish are not indiginous species, but let's at least have the British best coming from a fish that was spawned and grown on in this country. Otherwise how long will it be before we will be breeding super roach in captivity to be released to a stew pond to be caught and claimed as a record. What an achievement that will be!

 

[GrahamM]

Yes, I do think the importation of outsize fish could make a mockery of the achievements and records of those who have gone before - but only if the individual allows it to.

By the words you write you obviously do, and will continue to, respect and value the past records and achievements of others. Why should it be different for any other thinking angler?

The point I was making earlier in this thread was that it is too late to go back. The foreign imports are already seeded in numerous waters, to the point where no one really knows, for an absolute fact, which waters are affected and which aren't.

If there was some way of guaranteeing that the ideals you outline could be followed, and that no one could sneak a foreign fish into the equation then I would be with you all the way.

But it is too easy these days to flout those ideals, and while foreign imports remain on the black market and unacceptable to idealists such as yourself (and that's said with respect) then we are much, much more prone to deseased fish coming in though the back door, and the prices remaining disproportionately high.

By legalising foreign imports and therefore excercising proper control, we keep disease down to a minimum and give more anglers the chance of catching bigger fish.

I agree, we lose the true British records. But we are heading that way anyway, it's just going to take longer.

We've got to move with the times, distasteful as they are in many ways.

You mention about breeding super-roach in captivity. So how long before all our record fish have been artificially grown on in special rearing ponds?

I'll tell you, it's happening now.

Is that a better scenario than health certified foreign imports?

If foreign imports remain on the black market then force-fed lumps become more viable.

One way or the other the old standards are a thing of the past in more ways than one.

All I'm saying is that if we accept that we can't do anything about it, then let's do it right.

 

[Andy Davis]

Quote:"You mention about breeding super-roach in captivity. So how long before all our record fish have been artificially grown on in special rearing ponds?"
didn't this happen with the Crucian record last year ?

 

[GrahamM]

Dave, you wrote: "I appreciate the carp and catfish are not indiginous species, but let's at least have the British best coming from a fish that was spawned and grown on in this country."

Give the 'new' foreign imports long enough and your wish will come true.

We HAVE to go through this transitional period that looms just to get to the other side.

 

[DAVE COOPER]

Graham

Will the spawn of foreign imports grow to the same size as the parent? I don't think so.

I would speculate that a young, mature foreign fish that has reached a high weight in a warmer climate that is then transferred to a British water will achieve a much higher weight than it's offspring that is subsequently spawned in this country.

An offspring will not match the early growth rate of it's parent due to the British conditions. I think this will prevent it attaining the final high weight of the parent fish.

If this is so the only way a record could be achieved in the future is to keep importing foreign fish.

However, with carp you are right, the damage is done. I only hope this selfishness that has happened in carp fishing doesn't infect the other British species.

 

[peter webber]

I remember seeing a fishing program about a trout farm that has its own special tank where the owner rears the fish in. They grow to a large size in a short space of time. I think it was something like about 20lbs in 3 years.
How long will it be before people start trying this with other fish???

PETE

 

[GrahamM]

Dave, you wrote: 'Will the spawn of foreign imports grow to the same size as the parent? I don't think so.'

And I agree with you, but that isn't my main point, which is that we should get the foreign imports off the black market and get some control over it.

The damage to our native stocks has already been done and we can't alter that. Okay, so some fishery managers/owners are doing their best to keep their stocks 'clean', but they'll lose in the end to the Teletubbies with money and the smugglers.

Let's just look at them all as fish and get on with catching them. It'll do your head in worrying about the purity of records and the de-valuing of old, honourable records. It's too late and we can't turn the clock back.

So let's just concentrate on what matters most - enjoying our fishing, which I already know is something you do very well.

 

[DAVE COOPER]

Graham, you wrote: "So let's just concentrate on what matters most - enjoying our fishing, which I already know is something you do very well."

Well, I agree with that. Perhaps I just wish we could do it in an environment where the few didn't spoil things for the majority.

It's not the fault of the fish and I wouldn't shake a 60 pounder off if I happened to hook one. But equally I wouldn't claim a British record with it if I suspected it had spent it's maturing years across the channel. Mind you, chance would be a fine thing and I have more chance of being a lottery millionnaire I think.

 

[Carp Angler]

Cooperman
a couple of sessions with me this spring and we'll break your carp PB.
Bottom and surface caught.
and it'll be a true Brit fish.....

 

[DAVE COOPER]

Carp

I'm pretty confident I could beat it anyway if I could just leave the rivers alone for 5 minutes (well a couple of days maybe) but to do it in your excellent company would be even better. Where did you have in mind?

 

[Carp Angler]

we could do it on the river if you like, but it might take a wee bit longer...

Any water will do....your choice
(I'll quantify that by saying any water that I can get a ticket on)

 

[Andrew Miller]

I see in the AT that a home bred carp of 18 mths weighing 10lbs are now around at the fisheries so maybe a British bred carp record is not that far off

 

[Andy Davis]

I'm up for some carp fishing spring time...in fact anytime ;-)
going back to the canal this weekend, still a bit cold though !

 

[DAVE COOPER]

Andy, you are a master of understatement mate. It's bloody freezing, dipping under minus 5 tonight here in Cardiff. I'm thinking we shall be smashing ice this weekend unless it changes.

 

[DAVE COOPER]

Carp

I'm not up on carp waters. The only half decent water I'm familiar with is Linear. I would think you know of better ones.

 

[andrew jackson]

Sorry guys, better late than never!
Wow what was the thread? So many issues I dont know where to start. Sorry Dave Cooper, I just cannot agree with your argument about the carp record. Mary is a true Brit caught from a huge water, that is reconised as one of the hardest in the country. Anybody can gain membership to the water, and as such this makes Mary a true record in every way. True, that Walker's and Chris Yates, records are of great historical significance, but they came from an exclusive if not beautiful puddle. How would you react if the record fell from an, only open to a few freinds, hush hush type water next week? I know this is carp fishing herecy but is it not time we took off our rose coloured glasses, and recognise these captures for what they are. Great, NO, enourmous feats of angling relative to the ERA. These are part of our angling HISTORY and as such belong in the past. Serious respect due, fair enough, but To treat them as anything different is in my oppinion an insult to the sport and those two great men. Richard Walker was a innovator and a pioneer. Would such a forward thinking man, hang onto a privious record just for sentimental reasons? I think not!
Wow that got a bit heavy! Sorry Dave nothing personal, you just happend to light the fuse, no offence intended.
Foreign fish where do you begin. To some degree I subscribe to the legalise and health check argument. Sure this will reduce the influx of illegal aliens but anybody who thinks it will stop them, will be sadly disapointed. Setting up, controling, enforcing and administrating such a scheme will come at a price. The two thousand dollar question is, will unscrupulous lake owners pay this price,or continue to welcome Transit vans in the dead of night? I think we all know the answer. In the Eighties and early nineties it was frowned upon to catch imports. This led to many publications refusing to publish photos of such fish. With no prestige attached to thier capture imports were limited. Unfortunatly we are to far down the road to return to such a situation.
One thing i did find a little disturbing was the fact that hardly anybody, raised the issue of imports speading virus or parasites to our native stock. Much talk about size and records, yet hardly a word about the health of the fish. Could this be the very attitude that has brought these fish to our shores in the first place.