Hook Bait Ideas Please

[peterjg]

I sometimes fish a club lake which supposedly holds a few very big roach. The lake has a huge stock (too many) of carp to 30lbs. The lake is lightly fished (only two of us there yesterday), everyone but me fishes there for the carp. Only one rod is allowed during the summer months so it's difficult to experiment with baits.

The roach won't take mini boilies or pellets and the numerous carp beat them to it anyway. The only particle allowed is sweetcorn but that is taken by the numerous small roach in there. Big lumps of flake or crust are also just mullered by the small fish.

Any ideas how I can target the big roach? I am running out of ideas!

 

[@Clive]

Wait until winter and fish the deep end using bread flake or lob worm.

 

[mikench]

Try maize. I have yet to overcook it and it remains hard. It can still be hooked or attached to a hair. Artificial corn can work sometimes if allowed.

 

[Philip]

As Clive suggested winter could help to put the odds more in your favour as the Carp slow down.

If there is a big head of small fish then I would fish a hard bait...Pellet, maize etc...(peanuts have thrown up some monsters). If the lake sees a lot of bolies then that’s the obvious choice. I would preserve with those…because your not catching does not mean the Roach are not taking them.

Another option is wait for a really hot day and the fish congregate on the surface then try and spot and target any Roach shoaled up with mag & wag type tactics...but you have to get the timings spot on for that.

 

[Keith M]

What about using fresh casters? They always tend to sort the larger ones from the smaller ones for me.

I start with spraying maggots or pinkies to get the shoal feeding well and fighting to get at them, and fire a few fresh sinking casters amongst them every now and then, and then after a while I change over to caster on my hook (while still occasionally feeding the maggots/casters).

The smaller fish seem to concentrate on the maggots/pinkies and tend to leave the casters alone; and the caster carry on sinking and are often picked off by the larger Roach swimming below the rest of the shoal..

It’s well worth giving it a try and it very often works for me.

Keith

 

[peterjg]

Many thanks for replies, there's some bloomin' good ideas there! I've never used maize, does it work for roach - don't see why not as they eat sweetcorn no problem.
Casters is a good idea also, I forget about using them, I definitely will try them there. I once caught 2 roach which both weighed 2lbs 2ozs on the same day from the Thames in the 1970s on casters.
Would prawns work there, or would the small roach just muller them? Anyway I'll have fun trying not to catch the carp and the hoards of small fish. I fished the lake several times last winter and still caught lots of carp and small roach, it is worth perservering with, even in winter it stays coloured. The lake in question is on farm land, very pretty, very quiet, about 3 acres I would guess.

 

[nottskev]

The lake in question is on farm land, very pretty, very quiet, about 3 acres I would guess.

Despite everything I usually say, it sounds like a place where catching a few carp could be pleasant! (As opposed to catching them in front of the toilet block/cafe/car park/tackle shop/aerator/sign saying Mallard Lake/row of blokes on Space Stations)

I can't add much to the suggestions. Although there are times when the bigger roach sit above the shoals of small ones, or beyond or off to the side, and a bait fished shallow or on the edge of the swim gets better quality. You say the roach won't go for pellets - I wonder if feeding plenty of pellets to one side while feeding hemp and caster to the side you want to fish might sort the sheep from the goats?
Hemp on its own is great for roach but not carp, but is a lot easier to fish on a pole, and I've got a feeling that's not your cup of tea.

 

[Notts Michael.]

I've been experimenting with mixed results so far, but a few good sessions trying to target the many Rudd in a pond I fish at with a slow sinking hooklink and a water filled bubble float for casting weight, with maggot as hook bait and maggots catapulted over the top, with the aim of trying to catch the fish up in the water and get the bait to fall at a similar rate to the catapulted offerings, I don't know if Roach will feed up in the water in summer months and may fall to this method, may be worth a go.

 

[peterjg]

Notts Kev and Michael, thanks for your replies. I like using hemp but it is banned on this particular lake. Knott Kev, yes it certainly is a nice place to fish but the carp can be a pain at times being (in my opinion?) overstocked. In the summer minimum reel lines of 8lbs and hooklinks 6lbs, winter lines can be 2lbs lighter. In view of this rule I currently use 6lb braid hooklinks for the increased suppleness. I only started fishing there last year and have caught by accident several 20lb carp with an old 12ft match rod and centrepin. Biggest roach from there so far being around 11 or 12ozs though, so I am told, they go to nearly 3lbs??? How to target the big roach without being pestered by carp or small fish? Perhaps it's just a numbers game?

 

[Philip]

Won't be popular but given the additional information I am even more convinced than ever that fishing mid winter when lighter tackle is allowed with small bolies is the way to go

I would also ditch the braid & stick with mono. Accept your going to catch some Carp and wade through the numbers. If big Roach are there they will turn up eventually.

 

[no-one in particular]

I wouldn't ground bait at all. Those big 3lb roach are probably very solitary fish and don't follow the pack anyway and your just attracting all the small fish and whatever else is in there which is not what your after. A single bait on its own will still get picked up by them but maybe less so. The old favorite of half a lobworm, on its own trying different areas of the lake to have half a chance of finding their lairs, along side reeds in the margins for example or a deeper part. If you cant reach some of them with a float try a quiver tip. Yeh, your still going to pick up a carp here and there, unavoidable from the sounds of it. I wouldn't dismiss a 1/2 inch of crust either although you have tried it, its just such a good big roach bait, just anchored off the bottom about an inch or two 1/4 to1/2 inch in size, I find smaller fish are less attracted to it than just fluffy flake, although on your lake maybe not but I would still give it a go in-between, just on its own laying near a big roach lair and they might get it before a carp comes along., So no ground bait a couple of good big roach baits and have a search around say half an hour in each spot 1/4 hour each bait type worm and crust or other baits and a lot of patience. Its a game of chance, putting a bait right near them that they cannot resist before the other fish find it. There are probably very few big roach, solitary fish, so you have to search for them instead of attracting them and have a bit of luck!
PS, the worm injected with some air, just anchored on the bottom with maybe a couple of bb's just pops it up, could be a bit more noticeable and irresistible to a big roach instead of being lost among the silt and debris of the lake. Might get a nice Perch if they are in there, 3lb roach, 3lb perch not a bad consolation.
I know you have probably tried most of this but just a few thoughts and my take on it.

 

[mikench]

I am often puzzled by the rules on some waters saying what is or is not allowed . I have access to maybe 200 Stillwaters across 3 clubs and apart from no braid, barbless hooks , limits on ground bait quantities and one rod on many there are no restrictions at all. Who makes these rules and why? A few waters which limit you to the one rod rule is to deter carpers. Similarly restricting gb and particle spodding is to deter carpers. Sorry for going off topic but as the thread has progressed recommended baits are not allowed.

 

[Alan Whitty]

A lot of rules are 'persuaded' into the owners head by regular anglers on their waters,one day ticket water suddenly came up with the idea of no loose feeding,only to be fed by pva bag/string,or spod/spomb,alright if your a buzzer boynot so handy when your float fishing,imbeciles....

 

[peterjg]

Again many thanks for all your replies, much appreciated - there are some good ideas there! "No-one in particular" thought that there were probably very few big roach in there and I am sure that he is right. Yes, groundbait is definitely not a good idea there and this also applies on so many other waters - what happens is that the groundbait in effect works too well and attracts too many small fish and then they inturn attract either carp or pike into the swim which scare off the decent roach. It's all so interesting, I'll just have to go more often - I'm so fortunate that my wife is patient and understanding!

 

[@Clive]

Another thought is that roach are much more sight hunters than carp. Given that if is a small water you could work your way around it using a waggler & worm. Cast out and let the float settle then raise the rod tip upright to move the float and bait, then take in the slack. Repeat a couple of times then move on. We used that technique with a sliding loaded waggler for trout at a Pennine reservoir.

 

[Badgerale]

Many thanks for replies, there's some bloomin' good ideas there! I've never used maize, does it work for roach - don't see why not as they eat sweetcorn no problem.
Casters is a good idea also, I forget about using them, I definitely will try them there. I once caught 2 roach which both weighed 2lbs 2ozs on the same day from the Thames in the 1970s on casters.
Would prawns work there, or would the small roach just muller them? Anyway I'll have fun trying not to catch the carp and the hoards of small fish. I fished the lake several times last winter and still caught lots of carp and small roach, it is worth perservering with, even in winter it stays coloured. The lake in question is on farm land, very pretty, very quiet, about 3 acres I would guess.

I've never targeted roach specifically but fishing a prawn for perch on commercials has often got me a big roach by accident.

The raw prawns also seem quite resilient to small fish nibbling.

 

[peterjg]

Clive raised an interesting point in that roach are more of a sight feeder than carp and I am sure that this is normally the case. However the lake in question is clay-based and is continually very coloured due to all the carp grubbing around.I

Badgerale, thanks for confirming that big roach take prawns and can resist small fish.

I think it will continue to be a numbers game there being pestered by the carp, I'll persevere with single hookbaits only and try maize, prawns and lobworms.

 

[@Clive]

Water looks murkier looking in compared to how it is looking out. The eyesight of the roach is comparible with that of perch and zander and gives it the edge over species like carp. If I were fishing there based on what you say, a lobworm fished sink and draw under a float would be my first choice.

 

[flightliner]

I used to fish a lake near Lincoln that was an easy runs carp water but it had some large roach that I used to target with mussels for bait.
Fish over a pound in weight were commonplace with a 1—8+ roach expected most times out with an occasional 1—12 thrown in for good measure.
Granted the odd carp could be a pain on the odd occasion but something I was prepared to put up with for the sake of catching some of the pristine roach that swam in the place.
It was all margin fishing and as simple as it gets with the bites just sailing away.
The last time I fished the water was some 4 or 5 years ago where on arrival the baillif informed me that all the roach had been netted and moved elsewhere as the carp anglers were fed up having to wake up in the night to reel in another big roach that had taken a boilley!
In winter I would go in with feeder tactics with just two big white maggots as hookbait and if that prooved to be attracting the smaller unwanted roach I'd be trying the tail end of a big lobworm.

 

[peterjg]

Flightliner, thanks for your reply. The last time I used mussels as bait was about 40 years ago, thet were swan mussels which I think are no longer allowed? Can I ask, what mussels did you use?