How full to fill a centrepin?

[chrisjpainter]

What's the consensus? This is the first season I've used one, so I'm not really that experienced. When I've seen people using them, there seems to be very little line on them, regardless of the situation they're used. Is this the done thing, a case of that's all you need because of limited casting/trotting range, or is there something more technical going on?
Many thanks

 

[sam vimes]

Many will advocate the bare minimum is loaded on a centrepin. This is primarily based on the notion that they will not be fishing at significant range. An additional concern may be that excessive amounts of line is more likely to have "bedding in" problems.

I will often trot distances that are unbelievable to many anglers that fish lowland rivers. I will fairly regularly get up to and beyond the fifty yards of line that they may advocate as ample. I'm also quite uncomfortable with the prospect of a decent fish being hooked and having little leeway when playing them.

I know I'll be in a minority on this, but I will usually attempt to put about 100 yards (and a bit for luck) of line on my centrepins. This gives me plenty of wriggle room for long trotting, playing bigger fish and also trimming a few feet of worn line after a session if it's necessary. If I buy a line that comes in 100m (or yard) spools, that's what I'll put on.

 

[peterjg]

Chris, you've opened a can of worms with this question!!! It depends on the centrepin itself and where and for what you are fishing for but for general use do as Sam Vines says and put a decent amount of line on.
I (not always but fairly regularly) use three different pins. I use a Trudex with 3lb line on it for canals, a Match Ariel with 4lb line for trotting and laying-on and a wide drum Ariel with 8lb line on it for lake fishing where there are (unfortunately) lots of carp.
For many years I loaded the line in the conventional way so that the line came from the bottom of the reel then about 25 years ago I tried it with the line from the top: for me, I much prefer it this way, I have far fewer tangles, it's better and there is no need for a line guard. Give both ways a fair trial and see which suits you best.

 

[nottskev]

I like the line off the top - seems to lead to fewer line control issues and feels more natural when thumbing the rim to put drag on a running fish.
But my favourite cp for big fish has a drag system that demands line off the bottom.
I favour a decent amount of line, say 80m.
Less, and you could conceivably get run out, especially if you've lost a bit off the reel thanks to discarding what's been most stressed in use or losing some in a tangle or a snag.
I've not found finer lines prone to bed as much as I've often read. After all, line can get "sticky" with a fs too, after winding in bigger fish, and in both cases can quickly be put right.
I do find that bedding in can occur with a good length of heavier line such as I use for barbel or margin carp, but this is not the type of fishing where you catch one a chuck, so a bit of time to sort the line between fish is not really a problem.
I definitely prefer the cp for big fish, if they're within reach, especially near snags, as you can almost always wind in where the gears and angles of a fs mean you can't get a turn of the handle.

 

[chrisjpainter]

Thanks chaps. Its common use is close margin work for carp in the mid double range, so it gets a good pull on line that's reasonably heavy (13lb. The venue's got a min of 12lb for carp fishing). Since I've had it, the line's been coming off the bottom; I might tri it off the top, just as an experiment. I have small hands, so off the might be of benefit.

 

[nottskev]

Thanks chaps. Its common use is close margin work for carp in the mid double range, so it gets a good pull on line that's reasonably heavy (13lb. The venue's got a min of 12lb for carp fishing). Since I've had it, the line's been coming off the bottom; I might tri it off the top, just as an experiment. I have small hands, so off the might be of benefit.

Give it a try Chris. With the line off the bottom the rim is pushing against your thumb and it can get a bit juddery and sticky. Line off the top has the rim pulling away, and braking feels more natural. You soon get used to winding in "backwards". I've got pins set up both ways, and you adjust automatically.

 

[sam vimes]

With the line off the bottom the rim is pushing against your thumb and it can get a bit juddery and sticky.

That rather depends on how exactly an individual holds the rod/reel combination and where their thumb sits on the rim. The way I hold a rod/centrepin, and apply my thumb to the rim, it doesn't matter which way the line comes off the spool.

 

[nottskev]

Your grip is behind the reel?

 

[sam vimes]

Your grip is behind the reel?

A picture paints a thousand words.

This also influences my choice of reel and reel seat. I prefer 1" width reels and don't like overly thick handles/reel seats. Sliding reel bands are not my idea of fun in any circumstance, but this hold is not good with them. I've also found that Daiwa Tournament reel seats aren't good.

 

[nottskev]

Thanks. Hmm. If you call the bit of the rim under the middle of your thumb A, A moves towards you when line is pulled from the bottom and the reel rotates clockwise, and away from you when it's pulled from the top and the reel rotates anti-clockwise . No? That's the difference I was referring to. I can see it's possible another person, in practice, may be indifferent to the difference, though.

 

[sam vimes]

Thanks. Hmm. If you call the bit of the rim under the middle of your thumb A, A moves towards you when line is pulled from the bottom and the reel rotates clockwise, and away from you when it's pulled from the top and the reel rotates anti-clockwise . No? That's the difference I was referring to. I can see it's possible another person, in practice, may be indifferent to the difference, though.

Because I'm applying pressure with the side of my thumb, it makes no difference whatsoever. The way I'm doing it means that pressure is applied at 90 degrees to the rim the judder and stick you describe simply don't happen. The fact that using the side of my thumb pad also spreads the pressure applied over a greater surface area also helps in this regard.

The ways I see it resulting in the judder you describe would be if the rim were knurled and/or the application of pressure was a fair margin away from 90 degrees to the rim. Applying pressure with less surface area of skin would also not help.

It's definitely not a matter of indifference, I have noticed the effect you describe with other holds. However, I chose to overcome the effect without resorting to having to put the line on "from the top". I've tried it, but after forty odd years of turning a reel anti-clockwise to retrieve, I simply couldn't countenance backwinding to retrieve.

There are plenty of ways to skin cats.

 

[nottskev]

I see what you mean, Chris. I've just put a reel on a rod butt to see (more wet weekend stuff) and I notice my thumb is lower down and slightly around the rim, making the pressure a bit more of a squeeze in together with a push down. I stopped short of harnessing the cat to simulate a 10lb fish. It's what I've got used to doing, and, for things like barbel and carp, does seem to give me a better purchase to apply strong pressure or even lock the reel.

I can't claim any credit for being flexible about winding one way or the other. It's just the way it is.

I mentioned elsewhere how much I'm enjoying the cp with a proper drag I've been using through the season. You can "freespool" it and thumb it as you wish, but for barbel and carp around snags, the drag can be set, increased or decreased as you play the fish, and thumb pressure added as you go along. It's rare I'm trotting any distance with cp's, something I'm thinking you do a lot, so my comments come more from that kind of use. With the drag strong on, you can take your hand off the reel and add it the butt above the handle if need, and no more risk of burning your thumb or smashing your knuckles on the handle.

 

[Keith M]

I have tried it with the line coming off the top several times over the years but I just can’t get on with having to wind in one direction when using my fixed spools then having to wind in the opposite direction when using a centrepin so I didn’t persevere with my line coming off of the top; plus I haven’t noticed having any problems with any judder. The only advantage that I can see with the line coming off of the top for me is when there is a strong side wind with line spilling over the side of the spool; and any other advantages for me are minimal. If there is a strong gusty side wind causing me problems then I would probably try my closed face reel instead.
Of course I can see certain advantages with the ‘off the top’ method but for me they are minimal but that’s just me of course and the way I use my pins. Plus I often use the Wallis cast and for me the cast is easier to do it with the ‘off the bottom’ method.

It’s just user preference and there’s no right or wrong way, you’ll just have to give it a try and see which way suits you best.

Keith

 

[sam vimes]

I mentioned elsewhere how much I'm enjoying the cp with a proper drag I've been using through the season. You can "freespool" it and thumb it as you wish, but for barbel and carp around snags, the drag can be set, increased or decreased as you play the fish, and thumb pressure added as you go along.

I've had an Okuma Trent for just over eight years now. As I don't do much other than trot with my centrepins, it doesn't see masses of use. However, on the rare occasions that I'm fishing for fish that might run at speed for decent distances, it gets an airing. I'm not a fan of smashed knuckles or battered finger ends.

 

[Keith M]

As to line bedding in problems (after you’ve hooked decent sized fish) I’ve found that the spool design has a lot to do with it as well as how much line you load onto a pin. Ie. I’ve found that a solid spool base causes less bedding in problems than a caged spool base does; and a wider spool also helps to reduce any line bedding in problems.

I’m usually trotting in small and often winding streams and loading my pins with approx 50 mtrs of line is usually fine for me but if I were long trotting on a slightly larger river containing a few Carp or Barbel that could take off on long runs then I would tend to load a bit more line onto my pin just in case.

Keith

 

[sam vimes]

As to line bedding in problems (after you’ve hooked decent sized fish) I’ve found that the spool design has a lot to do with it as well as how much line you load onto a pin. Ie. I’ve found that a solid spool base causes less bedding in than a caged spool base and a wider spool also helps with reducing line bedding.

All of my reels are solid arbours or solid arbours with machined cut outs. I've found that the reels with the biggest cut outs are fractionally more susceptible to bedding in. The worst reel I have for it is the Young's Super Lightweight. However, it's not enough of an issue to cause real problems.

I don't have any reels with pillar type construction. However, I've been told that they are more problematic, though the effect can be lessened by utilising a greater number of pillars.

 

[nottskev]

The only pillar-type I have is a Fred Crouch Truepin Trotter. But it also has a wide drum and 12 pillars on a reel under 4" diameter. I have had no problems with line with it. Despite its name I've never used it for trotting, but it has caught lots of tench. I had an Adcock Stanton. I never counted the pillars, nor did I have line-bedding problems, but at 5" it was just too big and the noise of the ratchet, amplified by the big body, was unbearable and I sold it a couple of weeks ago. Did you ever hear the football rattles (weird invention, developed out of police/military use)) of the 50's/early 60's? That reel could annoy people a long way off.

 

[Philip]

How are people actually loading the line on a CP both initially and after a long trot ?

Any attempt to move it back and forth across the drum as you load it (like a level wind multiplier) or are people just reeling in & letting it sit on the drum however it wants ?

I tried both and I cant say I have noticed a great deal of difference but I am interested in what others think.

 

[Ray Roberts]

How are people actually loading the line on a CP both initially and after a long trot ?

Any attempt to move it back and forth across the drum as you load it (like a level wind multiplier) or are people just reeling in & letting it sit on the drum however it wants ?

I tried both and I cant say I have noticed a great deal of difference but I am interested in what others think.

I spread it across the width of the spool when I initially load it and don’t bother after that. I usually put around a hundred yards on and that works fine for me. At the end of a session I cut the line a couple of feet above the float ready for the next time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[sam vimes]

How are people actually loading the line on a CP both initially and after a long trot ?

Any attempt to move it back and forth across the drum as you load it (like a level wind multiplier) or are people just reeling in & letting it sit on the drum however it wants ?

I tried both and I cant say I have noticed a great deal of difference but I am interested in what others think.

I will try to load it evenly when spooling up. However, I know full well that will last no time at all during a days trotting. Unless it causes me issues, I won't worry about line piling up in one spot during a session. However, my last trot of the day will be as long as is possible in the swim I'm in and I'll even the line lay out on the retrieve.

How necessary this is might depend on the direction of flow of the river and whether the rod rings are well aligned with the reel seat. I fished the other day and noticed my line biasing heavily to the right of my spool. Fishing water flowing left to right, I'd normally expect some bias to the left. On closer inspection, I found that the butt ring of the rod was well out of kilter (to the right) with the reel seat. Did it make much difference to my fishing? Not really, no.