Improving the modern Fixed Spool Reel

[Mark Wintle]

Apart from expecting any fixed spool reel to have a quick release mechanism to release its spools, I'd like to see some form of micro-drag similar in function if not form to that on centrepins like the Rapidex so that the free spinning element is reducible. For float fishing I still prefer Mitchell Matches for fine lines, max 2.5lbs, as they don't spin easily due to the gearing. Never had a spring break on them either, but the drag is no good though for roach fishing that isn't a problem.

 

[watatoad]

Apart from expecting any fixed spool reel to have a quick release mechanism to release its spools, I'd like to see some form of micro-drag similar in function if not form to that on centrepins like the Rapidex so that the free spinning element is reducible. For float fishing I still prefer Mitchell Matches for fine lines, max 2.5lbs, as they don't spin easily due to the gearing. Never had a spring break on them either, but the drag is no good though for roach fishing that isn't a problem.

Ah! Now you are talking my kind of language my most favourite fixed spool reels for Roach fishing are the old Mitchell 308's, I have to admit for my style of fishing they have never been bettered, I like both the Mitchell match 440's and 440a's and I will include the 840's.

I have a couple of friends who prefer the Mitchell 300's for Carp, .Chub and Bream with the 410's being very popular with some of my friends for Carp, Tench and Barbel.

Although we do also use centrepins and a few of us do also use modern reels.

 

[dezza]

the 410's being very popular with some of my friends for Carp, Tench and Barbel.

The Mitchell 410 and 411, had a high retrieve rate. As a result the gear train was weak. I destroyed two of them on big catfish.

 

[the indifferent crucian]

Those two Mitchells I mentioned are a direct descendent of the 308/408 reels. Sadly they seem only to have been made for a year. Alledgedly having 8 bearings in them, they were an anniversary special.

On the subject of 300 and 440 Mitchell clutches, a number of anglers report of big improvement with fitting PTFE washers in the drag mechanism. It seems the clutch, whilst fine for smaller fish, gets a bit jerky when handling larger fish with the drag tightened down more.

 

[dezza]

I have been using Fixed Spool Reels since 1957 and other than the little Mitchell Prince 308, all the reels I used were found wanting.

The ABU series changed all that.

They had a smooth drag with a rear adjustment. A skirted spool which helped prevent the line getting snarled up behind the spool, a worm and wheel gear train which was much stronger than the Mitchell, the line wound around the spool the correct way such that the cast could be "feathered" to a nicety. This also helped trotting.

The bail arm however did not have a roller that worked. This came only very late, ca 1996 with the Shimano Stradic, yet was one of the most important fixed spool reel innovations, along with the "infinite" anti-reverse.

And I'll bet many of you Luddites don't appreciate the importance of a infinite anti-reverse that has no backlash. So essential when adjusting a quiver tip!

 

[barbelboi]

What you did also have to deal with in years gone by was the awful line lay of the Mitchell 300's and Cardinals compared to modern day reels. Of course you didn't relate to it at the time as you had not a lot to compare them with. I can't remember if the early Daiwa 7000 series were much better?
Jerry

 

[dezza]

Line lay, yes a function of the following values:

Spool depth, distance of spool oscillation, number of oscillations per turn of handle, presence of revolving roller.

Can you think of any other?

 

[the indifferent crucian]

Yes, I have some old, old Mitchells and the line lay can be awful, though it turns out there were a number of different spools and bale arms that weren't always compatible with aone another.

Playing around with some shim washers made much more of a difference than I expected...just half a millimetre can change how the line lays drastically.

I know a number of anglers who use nothing but the Cardinal reels that Ron mentions, and it's the clutch they love the most. Sadly they are so sought after that the price remains high, even in the days of cheap Shimanos of far superior quality.

There was an Abu catalogue with a picture showing the inside gearing on the cover and it struck me how similar in design the worm-drive was to the old Young's Ambidex. To be fair one has to say the Abu was a far better reel despite that! I know Chris Yates caught a large carp with his 'fibreglass' geared Ambidex, but he's mad and lucky....I wouldn't try it.

The gears of the Ambidex were made of a cloth and resin composite called Delrin( I think) that reminds me of the insulated circuit boards of early transistor radios...not my first choice for making gears from...but it worked.

The economy versions, the Delmatics, had plastic gears!

 

[mark brailsford 2]

I bought my shimano D series baitrunner as I wanted a tough reel to match my 12 ft barbel rod (at the time I had a bit of a bonus from work, otherwise I would have bought something a little cheaper...lol!) but the features this reel has are a real boon.
I has the superb baitrunner system and a first class front drag, but what stands out are the saltwater proof sealed bearings, the double anodised spool, and the best of all, a handle that screws directly in to the gears!
all in all a superb reel for the money.

mark

 

[little oik]

Big Pit reels with small electric motors attached:wh

 

[mark brailsford 2]

Something I have wanted to ask for a while, are ABU cardinal reels still a good reel to use?

mark

 

[barbelboi]

This thread certainly brings back memories of just how far f/s reels have developed in the last 50 years. I believe that Alfred Illingworth patented the first fixed-spool reel in the UK in 1905 but wasn’t it invented in the late 1800’s in the US (Winans & Whistler)?
Jerry

 

[MarkTheSpark]

Those Luddites amongst you who wish to go back to reels with no rollers in the pick-up like the early Mitchels et al, must understand that without an efficient roller, the act of winding in will intensify the twist effect with each turn.

But like I say, it takes all sorts.

With the greatest of respect, Ron, that's rubbish. Line twist is a feature of fixed-spool reels; you own calculations are right. So it doesn't matter whether a reel has a line roller or not, not only will twist remain, it MUST, by physical law, be exactly the same.

Line rollers help reduce line wear, no doubt. But there is no sense in which the bale arm introduces or reduces line twist in any other way that that you describe.

---------- Post added at 09:46 ---------- Previous post was at 09:38 ----------

One way to reduce line twist fairly simply is to let a load of line off the spool as you walk to your swim. Mount the reel on the bottom section of the rod, feed the line through the guides, open the bail arm and simply start walking, leaving a trail of line behind you. When you've gone 100 yards, simply reel all the line back on to the spool.

Because there is nothing at all attached to the line, the twist in the line is free to 'escape' as the line comes back towards you. I also use this technique (across grass only, to avoid scuffing) with my fly lines. It works. It costs nothing.

 

[dezza]

With the greatest of respect, Ron, that's rubbish. Line twist is a feature of fixed-spool reels; you own calculations are right. So it doesn't matter whether a reel has a line roller or not, not only will twist remain, it MUST, by physical law, be exactly the same.

Of course you are right Mark, a line roller does not reduce the number of twists.

However what it does do, by virture of what it is, is prevent the twists in the line being pushed up the line and concentrated, as you wind in under pressure!

I guess that's why Daiwa call an efficient line roller a "Twist Buster".

 

[mark brailsford 2]

I have watched a video on you tube by shimano showing Mr Jan Porter winding line from a spool of line with a pencil through the middle!!!! Is this shimano's ploy to get us to buy a new spool of line every month??

mark

 

[Morespiders]

As a mechnical engineer I don't see how, but I suppose it takes all sorts.

"Last for ever???" I destroyed 4 Mitchell 300s and 2 Mitchell 410s in a few months!

.

Makes me think you dont know how to adjust your clutch or play a fish Mr Clay, a 150lb tarpon would destroy the gears on any reel if that reel wasnt used correctly
Remind me next time we meet to show you how with my Mitchells 300s ,410s

 

[Ric Elwin]

One step forward, 2 steps back. While modern reels are perfectly smooth, what advantage does that offer while you're fishing? other than that it "feels nice". The flipside is that smooth running reels suffer from intertia which can lead to overruns if the reel runs backwards, which it can, sometimes. I used to be able to tackle up with a Mitchell 300 by pulling line from the reel with a closed bail arm, backwinding in effect. Try that with a modern reel, you'll then be sorting out the mess that is an overrun.

The second disadvantage with modern reels is that they are too heavy. Not a problem if the rod is sitting in rests but in holdng the rod situations, a serious disadvantage. Show me a modern reel with a spool as wide as the Mitchell 300, that's as light as the Mitchell, I'll buy it.

OK an older reel might not be able to skulldrag a huge tarpon from dense mangroves, so if you have this combination in your part of the U.K., you might be better off choosing reels with superior gearing, that weight a relative ton.

 

[Morespiders]

One step forward, 2 steps back. While modern reels are perfectly smooth, what advantage does that offer while you're fishing? other than that it "feels nice". The flipside is that smooth running reels suffer from intertia which can lead to overruns if the reel runs backwards, which it can, sometimes. I used to be able to tackle up with a Mitchell 300 by pulling line from the reel with a closed bail arm, backwinding in effect. Try that with a modern reel, you'll then be sorting out the mess that is an overrun.

The second disadvantage with modern reels is that they are too heavy. Not a problem if the rod is sitting in rests but in holdng the rod situations, a serious disadvantage. Show me a modern reel with a spool as wide as the Mitchell 300, that's as light as the Mitchell, I'll buy it.

OK an older reel might not be able to skulldrag a huge tarpon from dense mangroves, so if you have this combination in your part of the U.K., you might be better off choosing reels with superior gearing, that weight a relative ton.

All correct The Elwin, good luck mate

 

[chub_on_the_block]

So perhaps i am right to stick with my luddite old Mitchells and ABU500 series after all. I also stick with rods with a full length cork handle wherever possible, and predominantly listen to music from the 1960s or 1970s and watch old youtube clips of Jack Hargreaves et al too, but hey thats a different topic.

 

[watatoad]

From what I have used and can see and read old reels are not so flash not so technologically advanced and certainly do not have a modern look nor are stylish nor much in the way of gizmo's nor much bling on them and almost certainly will not give you much in the way of street or lake cred.

However, although I fish with some modern reels as well as some old reels, as I have already said. The old reels still work fine for me without a problem and for personal preference I prefer some of my old reels to modern reels.