Is Carp fishing becoming too easy

[Alan Whitty]

I too did an engineering apprenticeship,ended up being a city and guilds qualified prototype sheet metal worker,tackle was fashioned at work,floats were made,even big blockend swimfeeders for the Trent were made by the score....

 

[@Clive]

"if I went carping I'd want peace and quiet like in years gone by.."

Plenty of that here! If you don't like commercial carp fishing there are plenty of "free" waters in France, rivers and lakes, that have some huge carp.

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I moved to the Lot as I remembered reading about the fishing 50 years ago. It does not seem to have changed much, some great but often difficult fishing, I have the river to myself for at least 6 months of the year. Even through the holiday season I hardly see an angler much of the time here!

Maybe it's my bait additives (that Monster Crab is something else!) .....Getting lonely now!

But that is the crux Steve. Modern carp anglers don't want to pioneer new waters it takes time and effort.

If you look at the carp forums it is possible to choose a carp like choosing a partner from a dating website. Size, colour, location, favourite food......

 

[Steve Arnold]

But that is the crux Steve. Modern carp anglers don't want to pioneer new waters it tales time and effort.

If you look at the carp forums it is possible to choose a carp like choosing a partner from a dating website. Size, colour, location, favourite food......

Dating site? Some of these commercials sound more like "knocking shops"

 

[rayner]

Can you give a few examples Steve? could be a laugh.

 

[Steve Arnold]

Can you give a few examples Steve? could be a laugh.

I remember a few in Belize - but I got no further than the bar! Plenty of attractions hanging around, looking for business!

There were tarpon, sharks and catfish to be caught back on my RN frigate, anchored just outside the reef, much more to my taste!

 

[Keith M]

I remember a few in Belize - but I got no further than the bar! Plenty of attractions hanging around, looking for business!

There were tarpon, sharks and catfish to be caught back on my RN frigate, anchored just outside the reef, much more to my taste!

The Chinese laundry on the larger RN ships that I served on caught far more fish on their simple silver paper lures on hand lines; than we ever did with our more state of the art fishing tackle

Keith

 

[@Clive]

I remember a few in Belize - but I got no further than the bar! Plenty of attractions hanging around, looking for business!

There were tarpon, sharks and catfish to be caught back on my RN frigate, anchored just outside the reef, much more to my taste!

Frigate? I thought you were a stoker on a submarine

 

[Steve Arnold]

The Chinese laundry on the larger RN ships that I served on caught far more fish on their simple silver paper lures on hand lines; than we ever did with our more state of the art fishing tackle

Keith

Those lads did like their (or mine!) fresh fish!

The NCOs had a team effort to catch a massive grouper that was hanging about the ships "gash chute" chomping on the clouds of bait fish and catfish feeding on the kitchen scraps.

I caught a Gafftopsail catfish with my telescopic fishing rod, one of the chefs found a chain and meathook, the sailors provided rope and muscle. So we tied the catfish to the meathook, lowered it a few feet under the gash chute and the Jewfish grouper played his part immediately. It did not have much chance to fight, just four of five sailors pulling hard and it was out of the sea and onto the quarterdeck.

Then I played my part and hit it on the head with my biggest 'ammer - being an artificer 'ammers were my job! I spent the next 40 minutes gutting and filleting the beast - there were two more catfish and a very large crayfish (lobster) in its gut!

I never did get a meal out of that! Someone negotiated free laundry as a trade with the Chinese guys - I don't remember getting that either!

Had a lot of fish from that old frigate! Cod in Faslane to tarpon off Belize, occasionally it was diverted to follow Russians and suchlike!

and carp fishing probably never was that difficult.....just to keep on subject!

 

[Alan Whitty]

I think carp fishing was bloody difficult,I remember my first double,it took a lot of fishing to get a carp in the swim,to catch a carp,wow,let alone a double...

 

[peterjg]

You're right it was difficult. Now on some waters the over stocked half-starved carp will eat anything.

 

[Alan Whitty]

Agreed,I've just watched the episode of The Grand Fishing Adventure with Ali Hamidi and Bobby Zamora where they caught thirty 30lbers,three forties to Hamidi,seven to Zamora(three in one day),let's be honest,that just shouldn't happen,in fact it's a little embarrassing...

 

[Old fisher]

I know I said I wouldn't add anymore posts and leave it to others, I just had to agree with Alan. As I also said in my original post. Is carp fishing becoming too easy? and some seem to perhaps agree with me, even though I said it was my own opinion. Now given the money, there is an ever increasing number of waters where great numbers of carp are now grown to huge sizes before being put in the lakes. It's now a bit like the old fairground stalls where you dangle a hook on a stick and catch a fish/duck and look underneath it for a number to see how big a prize you have won.

 

[nottskev]

Expectations of what fishing is about and definitions of success have changed enormously, and not just in carp fishing. I'd guess I'd been fishing for ten years before I had 15lbs in a keepnet. A young angler I bump into a lot told me a while back his latest match had been rubbish - he only had 80lb and came nowhere. I can have three or four good sessions on places I fish and they still wouldn't add up to 80lb. Fish size, similarly. If you caught a 5lb carp not all that long ago while fishing for a mixed catch, people from along the bank would come up and say, is it in your net, mate, can I have a look? There are anglers who expect to put a fish like that in the net every few minutes these days. Some branches of fishing today cater to people who want it on a plate and don't seem to mind if the waters that provide the fishing-on-steroids they require are in an artificial world unrelated to anything in the natural world. When it's too easy, the reward of catching is devalued. If I'm wrong, why are angler numbers falling off when catching loads of fish has never been easier? Another paradox, or is it?: when tackle was relatively scarce and relatively dear, and waters not rammed with stockies, fishing boomed. Now we're up to our necks in cheap gear and over-stocked waters and they tell us fishing is in decline.

 

[sam vimes]

It's all relative. Of course it's easier to catch what was a decent fish 40-50 years ago. Not many carpers down south seem to give a stuff about anything less than 40lb these days. However, catching a fish available in the same percentile of availability is no easier. It was utterly impossible to catch a UK 60lber (approaching 70lber) until relatively recently. However, I very much doubt that they are any easier to catch than Ravioli in the 50s or the Pope in the 80s. If you really fancy going back in time for carp, move north. The limit on maximum carp growth is far lower, mainly because of the lower annual average temperatures. If you want a 30lb fish to be a fish of a lifetime again? Try the North East for size. I know plenty of dedicated carpers that have never had a northern 30. In a similar vein, I know plenty of good local river anglers that have never had a double figure barbel. I'd consider a fairly average angler on the Trent (in favourable conditions) relatively unlucky not to get a double on a first attempt.

Carp fishing is undoubtedly easier if you use the benchmarks of previous decades. The snag is that you could say similar about pike, bream, tench, crucians, zander, perch, chub and barbel. All are available at greater average sizes than they were when I was a kid starting out. If only they were all quite as ubiquitous as carp have become.

 

[Old fisher]

I lived in Kent for 65 years and now I have lived in Notts for 11 years.

 

[nottskev]

It's all relative. Of course it's easier to catch what was a decent fish 40-50 years ago. Not many carpers down south seem to give a stuff about anything less than 40lb these days. However, catching a fish available in the same percentile of availability is no easier. It was utterly impossible to catch a UK 60lber (approaching 70lber) until relatively recently. However, I very much doubt that they are any easier to catch than Ravioli in the 50s or the Pope in the 80s. If you really fancy going back in time for carp, move north. The limit on maximum carp growth is far lower, mainly because of the lower annual average temperatures. If you want a 30lb fish to be a fish of a lifetime again? Try the North East for size. I know plenty of dedicated carpers that have never had a northern 30. In a similar vein, I know plenty of good local river anglers that have never had a double figure barbel. I'd consider a fairly average angler on the Trent (in favourable conditions) relatively unlucky not to get a double on a first attempt.

Carp fishing is undoubtedly easier if you use the benchmarks of previous decades. The snag is that you could say similar about pike, bream, tench, crucians, zander, perch, chub and barbel. All are available at greater average sizes than they were when I was a kid starting out. If only they were all quite as ubiquitous as carp have become.

Tracking the relativities of fish size (how our idea of what's "big changes)) is, I think, only one dimension, albeit an important one. Other dimensions include angler expectation of how many they'll catch, how quickly and after what degree of patience and investment in learning.
There are indeed plenty of good barbel in the Trent, but anglers above Nottingham catch very few. A friend with an illustrious career fishing for a top local match team has literally given up fishing for them in the Shardlow -Swarkestone area. Anglers in Nottingham catch some but not many by dint of numerous after-dark carbelling sessions - a popular camping site is 10 mins from my door, so I have an idea what comes out, and dedicated anglers put in several night sessions for one fish, sometimes fewer - and even on the prolific stretches around Newark the angler who bets he'll catch a double today is at risk of losing his money more than you suggest. Plenty of anglers - I've been on there all summer and autumn - hope to catch doubles as easily as that but don't.

 

[@Clive]

When you read about Walker's early carp fishing exploits he and his friends were delighted with any carp that they caught. They would congratulate others on catching a 7lb carp. Now carp anglers are openly dismissive over catching 30lb carp. They can only have those expectations if they are sure that larger carp are able to be caught. Walker's crew knew there were larger carp, but hadn't worked iut how to catch them. Now it is much more certain. The stock densities are much greater for one thing and the carp are accustomed to feeding off bait. In fact in many waters they depend on bait. That is a big difference. Another major difference is the time spent behind not one, but three rods. All this adds to the expectations of being able to land large carp.

 

[Steve Arnold]

When you read about Walker's early carp fishing exploits he and his friends were delighted with any carp that they caught. They would congratulate others on catching a 7lb carp. Now carp anglers are openly dismissive over catching 30lb carp. They can only have those expectations if they are sure that larger carp are able to be caught. Walker's crew knew there were larger carp, but hadn't worked iut how to catch them. Now it is much more certain. The stock densities are much greater for one thing and the carp are accustomed to feeding off bait. In fact in many waters they depend on bait. That is a big difference. Another major difference is the time spent behind not one, but three rods. All this adds to the expectations of being able to land large carp.

Hi Clive, this thread has covered some ground now! I picked up on your choice of word "EXPECTATIONS"..... spot on!

Because of anglers like Walker we know these big fish exist. I moved to the Lot due to my fishing "expectations" based on remembering articles I had read 50 years earlier. I had never seen these great fish myself!

My fishing buddy Alistair moved here a few years before me. All he had caught from the Lot were a few small chub, those he fished for as they were the fish he could see himself. He had no greater expectations! When I first met Alistair I told him about the great carp the Lot was famous for, I don't think he believed me, let alone that he could possibly catch these carp himself. So, based on what I had read, I showed him how to approach this type of fishing. Now he has had two 30's and a few other notable captures!

He still has not bought a decent sized net though, I am on my third now!

A simple formula that puts great fish on the bank! KNOWLEDGE + EXPECTATIONS = CONFIDENCE

The knowledge is often gleaned from those who have come before us. Their accounts of captures lifts our expectations, but confidence in your own ability to capture these fish comes more slowly.

Without that confidence you could not sit behind your rod for so many hours, fishing for a fish you cannot see. Many will not manage that level of confidence easily, I guess for some the commercial fisheries are a good short cut to that!

 

[Old fisher]

As a young boy 8 years old, mad keen on fishing but with no interest or knowledge of carp, I was aware that carp had been put in the waters I fished. There were some older club members who did fish for them. At that time people, me included, still thought carp hibernated in the winter, (really) silly I know, but that's how mysterious the carp was. When the angling papers started talking about Richard Walker's 44lb Clarissa I was amazed. My mother later, as my interest grew, took me to London Zoo so I could see Walkers fish. It was late 1950s when they gave me my first B James MK1V rod.
Roy Parfitt fished my club waters ( actually he was not a very nice guy to a young lad who didn't fish for carp) He was partly responsible for getting lots of extra club rules that benefitted carp anglers (there were a few carp anglers) I remember the few chosen anglers sitting behind him watching him fish. He would catch fish weighing 8lbs or so, and they would all gather round to admire the fish. As time went by I started learning about carp fishing and also purchase a Heron bite alarm. My first carp a common weighed exactly 6lb on my little Sampson spring balance. In my first year I caught 26 carp the biggest weighing 12 lbs. After that I started to gear up and fished another of the clubs 3 lakes. This lake had the fish that were first given to the club by the Kent River Board in late 1950s/60s from a fish farm in Italy. In my first all night session in 1979 I landed 3 carp 14lb 16lb and my very first 20lb carp at 27lbs. Anglers came to see me from all around the lake. I hated that, So from then on I kept myself to myself and with the help of Rod Hutchison's milk protein powders and additives my carp fishing gradually took off. As the years moved on and clubs including mine, started packing the carp into their the lakes I began to move away from carp (but not entirely) and went back to my general fishing for other species. I used to help youngsters learn the basic ways of fishing. I was sad when I chose to stop helping them. There were now too many stories in the press about young one's and strange men. I didn't want accusations etc pointed my way. What a sad country we are turning into. Before I moved to Notts I often had some of the lads ask me why I didn't do it any more. A couple even said to me it was silly that I stopped. I told them that you have to do these things for your own protection.

 

[@Clive]

Walker wasn't the Saint that some believe him to be. He read of the capture of Bob Richards' record carp from Redmire and muscled in on the venue on behalf of The Carp Catchers Club, aka his mates. He was a rampant publicist and fiddled the rules to allow the then famous 'BB' to join the club even though he wasn't a carp angler. 'BB' added greater status to the club so the press took more notice of them.

They could only fish Redmire a few times a year because of the distance involved so they developed the multi-day session, the bivvy and the bite alarm. You no longer fished for a few hours watching a float or bobbin. The rod could be left to fish all day and all night. And it is from that where carp fishing diverged from what anglers had been doing for generations and became more easy. Rigs were based on the principle of the angler not having to immediately respond to a bite. You could leave the rods fishing while you slept. So the bait was in the water 24/7 for as long as your session lasted.

That is where my line is drawn. I will occassionally use a bite alarm when fishing two methods sucb as feeder and deadbait but I don't fish and sleep. I can always quickly respond to a bite. And my fishing for carp is far more mobile, preferring to spot fish or fish a short period in a likely place before moving on. The idea of having three baits out for a week in the same location is alien to my perception of angling. And I have no interest in catching large fish from small, heavily fished waters. Arthur Ransome wrote an article entitled Fishing in Lilliput. It dsscribes the thrill of catching the biggest fish in the stream or pool. And that could be a 9" trout or 4 oz roach. Catching the fish at the top of that water's pyramid was a great achievement.

Now in the carp world there are no allowances for anything. It is all about the pounds and ounces no matter where it came from or how easy it was to catch.