Line again part 2.

dicky123

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I've been intrigued with a chap doing fishing videos on You-Tube called Danny. He has a blog called ''satonmyperch''.

He uses Bayer Perlon for all his hook-lengths, wait for it; In 1.7 and 2.1 the former being for roach and dace, the later for chub.

Now his chub don't run as big as mine, but I did have spool of 2.1 and took a close look at it today. What I noticed about it was just how soft and smooth it was compared to lots of the high tech lines I've been paying for! Yes, its thick compared to the new stuff, but I honestly wonder if that matters as long as the bait you're using is presented well and naturally. When you watch the above videos mentioned, Danny lands a 10lb carp on the 1.7lb and the bend in his Acolyte Plus would suggest it breaks well above the stated 1.7. Most of his chub are modest but many are caught in fast water.

So I'm just thinking out loud, what would happen if this season I fined down and used the 2.1 and 3.2 for some of my chub and barbel fishing when the river allows (clear and not pounding through) I'm also informed the line does not get damaged easy, or kink or pig-tail like lots of the high tech stuff. I'd imagine it would have some decent stretch in it too.

If anyone is using it right now, I'd love to know how you feel. At around £4.75 for 100 meters posted, it's much cheaper than many of the lines I'm using, and the suppleness could be important too?

Rich.
 

tigger

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I'm intrigued as to know why your so keen to use such light lines when targetting chub and barbel?
If that line is under pressure and comes in contact with any obsticles, even the slightest brush against a rock or similar and it will part and youll be leaving fish carrying hooks and line.
If you really want to use a lighter bottom then 4lb isn't ovelry thick in Prestons power or silstar matchman, plus many more.
 

lutra

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I'm intrigued as to know why your so keen to use such light lines when targetting chub and barbel?
If that line is under pressure and comes in contact with any obsticles, even the slightest brush against a rock or similar and it will part and youll be leaving fish carrying hooks and line.
If you really want to use a lighter bottom then 4lb isn't ovelry thick in Prestons power or silstar matchman, plus many more.
My standard hook length is Prestons power 3lb6oz (.11mm) and I have never been seen off on it and (as you know ) thats on one of the same rocky chub and barbel rivers you like to fish Ian. 3lb2oz bayer is .18mm and probably better with the rocks than what I use.

ps. 4.4lb bayer is my standard mainline and Ive never been seen off on that ever.
 

tigger

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My standard hook length is Prestons power 3lb6oz (.11mm) and I have never been seen off on it and (as you know ) thats on one of the same rocky chub and barbel rivers you like to fish Ian. 3lb2oz bayer is .18mm and probably better with the rocks than what I use.

ps. 4.4lb bayer is my standard mainline and Ive never been seen off on that ever.


I know you like going light B but I just can't see any point in targetting barbel with such flimsy lines. I have done it myself and caught the fish ok but theres a lot of swims where i'd have no chance of catching barbel with those kinda flimsy lines as the fish bolt full bore for a snag the very instant that the hook is set.
As you say the 3.2lb perlon is .18mm anyhow so not exactly a fine line, why not use something with more grunt with a fraction more diameter.....it just seems a no brainer to me.
The only time I would bother dropping down in B/S like that would be when the fish are being super cautious and in swims where I don't need to hold them out of snaggs etc....no point in hooking them just to loose them a moment or two later.
If your gonna use those light lines why bother getting a power float rod.... defeats the object imo?
As I say, jmo :).
 

dicky123

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Tigger.
It's not all about Barbel to be honest. On my normal Barbel gear I get very few Roach, or big Chub. The start of the season I'll be after some big Chub all being well, plus the better Roach too. When the Barbel have spawned and are ready to be caught, I'll be back on my 6lb main line, and 5lb F/C bottom, strong small hook. But buddy it's not really what I'm saying, I'm wanting to know about the old style mono, and why we pay more for the new stuff, when the old still looks good to me, hope you can get that?
Right at the start I'll be on 4.4 right through trotting bread flake on a size 8s. But later I may well try a maggot bash for those chub, same main line, but then its about the hook-length and if the old style mono is worth trying, not for its thinness, but for it's other attributes? I'll also try targeting swims I know the Chub will be in at the start, and not so many Barbel. I just think that maybe you got the thread of my question a little wrong. But no problem.

Rich.
 

tigger

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Tigger.
It's not all about Barbel to be honest. On my normal Barbel gear I get very few Roach, or big Chub. The start of the season I'll be after some big Chub all being well, plus the better Roach too. When the Barbel have spawned and are ready to be caught, I'll be back on my 6lb main line, and 5lb F/C bottom, strong small hook. But buddy it's not really what I'm saying, I'm wanting to know about the old style mono, and why we pay more for the new stuff, when the old still looks good to me, hope you can get that?
Right at the start I'll be on 4.4 right through trotting bread flake on a size 8s. But later I may well try a maggot bash for those chub, same main line, but then its about the hook-length and if the old style mono is worth trying, not for its thinness, but for it's other attributes? I'll also try targeting swims I know the Chub will be in at the start, and not so many Barbel. I just think that maybe you got the thread of my question a little wrong. But no problem.

Rich.
Ok, no worries ****y, I often get mixed up bud lol.
 

whitty

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I've caught many barbel on 2.6 silstar matchteam hooklink,nothing over 6lbs or so mind,when you are trotting for barbel,or big chub you can easily fish a 5.5 hooklink,or even 7.9 straight through,still catching roach,dace,perch etc,I think we(and i've done it myself)give fish x-ray vision,that can spot lines,hooks,rigs etc,in the main that is total ballwarks and is normally a matter of the presentation just not being right,exceptions to this do show themselves,but not as regularly as we would like to believe...
 

sam vimes

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I don't tend to bother with pre-stretched nylon for anything. I've never used Bayer Perlon for hooklinks, but I do have a few spools of sub 3lb Maxima that I sometimes use for hooklinks. Generally, my preference is for Drennan Supplex Fluorocarbon. I don't take any particular notice of the diameters of the lines I use. However, I know that my choices generally won't be the lowest diameter. It's not something that really concerns me.
 

whitty

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I'd like to know people's opinions on suppleness of lines,especially hooklinks,a guy I know is forever telling me silstar matchteam is too stiff,my reply is that if it is too supple lines tend to gather round themselves as they sink and tangle,as I've said before,we give fish too much credit and would catch on much worse tackle than we actually employ...
 
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john step

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I used Bayer Perlon for years as my hooklength. I don't know why I don't use it now apart from thinking perhaps it isn't made any more. Must look it up. I never had a problem with it.

Whether it was true or not some folk said it was identical to the Drennan Floatfish as it came in the same peculiar breaking strains such as 1.1 1.7 3.2 etc.
 

lutra

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I know you like going light B but I just can't see any point in targetting barbel with such flimsy lines. I have done it myself and caught the fish ok but theres a lot of swims where i'd have no chance of catching barbel with those kinda flimsy lines as the fish bolt full bore for a snag the very instant that the hook is set.
As you say the 3.2lb perlon is .18mm anyhow so not exactly a fine line, why not use something with more grunt with a fraction more diameter.....it just seems a no brainer to me.
The only time I would bother dropping down in B/S like that would be when the fish are being super cautious and in swims where I don't need to hold them out of snaggs etc....no point in hooking them just to loose them a moment or two later.
If your gonna use those light lines why bother getting a power float rod.... defeats the object imo?
As I say, jmo :).
I think its just a case of you target the barbel more than I do Ian and as I have no problem landing them on that line, why would I want or need to go heavier?

Yes you can catch fish with heavier line, I've had some cracking chub when salmon fishing on 15lb line, but that don't mean I'm going to make it my standard line for chubbing.
 

mickb

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I would completely ignore any stated breaking strain of mono. It has no relevance to the actual breaking strain itself. I've caught big chub (5lb+) on the old 1.7lb drennan hooktie which was pretty much the same diameter as Bayer if my memory serves me correctly. Barbel could be a different matter though. I usually fish finer than most but .18mm is going some.
 

dicky123

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Bayer is still available as I brought some this week. It's made by Kamasan, called Bayer Perlon.

Barbel on a float rod fight completely different to those hooked on a heavy ledger. I've caught enough now over the past few years to feel qualified to pass an opinion on this. When hooked they go to mid-river (mostly) and sulk, they even swim upstream, I don't fish near snags with this method by the way. They can be led in like a dog on a lead most times. That does not mean they don't fight, they do but in a different way that's all. So without that explosive run downstream, playing these fish is more like a give and take where you get some line in, then give a little. You never fully bend into the fish and give it stick, hence why you can land them on much lighter tackle. For myself that's a 4.4lb hook link minimum. On that line to date, I've not lost a fish due to a line break. Hook pulls happen, but with size 18s and 16s it's not as often as you would expect.

Also the fights are not as long as you would expect. Naturally not as quick as with a 12lb hook link and 15lb mainline, but unless all your fish are 10lb plus, why would you need it for just the odd double. Oddly most of the places I fish have plenty of fish between 8-12lb and this tackle is ideal, if there are no snags.

On a personal note, I get way more fun trotting for barbel than I ever did with a heavy lead system. I'm busy all trip working up a fish, then keeping them in the swim. I've also had bigger bags of fish trotting, but I am aware that's down to the way I'm feeding the fish. I hope this gives a little better understanding to those that think, when trotting we fish too light, we don't when you understand it more.

Rich.
 

tigger

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Bayer is still available as I brought some this week. It's made by Kamasan, called Bayer Perlon.

Barbel on a float rod fight completely different to those hooked on a heavy ledger. I've caught enough now over the past few years to feel qualified to pass an opinion on this. When hooked they go to mid-river (mostly) and sulk, they even swim upstream, I don't fish near snags with this method by the way. They can be led in like a dog on a lead most times. That does not mean they don't fight, they do but in a different way that's all. So without that explosive run downstream, playing these fish is more like a give and take where you get some line in, then give a little. You never fully bend into the fish and give it stick, hence why you can land them on much lighter tackle. For myself that's a 4.4lb hook link minimum. On that line to date, I've not lost a fish due to a line break. Hook pulls happen, but with size 18s and 16s it's not as often as you would expect.

Also the fights are not as long as you would expect. Naturally not as quick as with a 12lb hook link and 15lb mainline, but unless all your fish are 10lb plus, why would you need it for just the odd double. Oddly most of the places I fish have plenty of fish between 8-12lb and this tackle is ideal, if there are no snags.

On a personal note, I get way more fun trotting for barbel than I ever did with a heavy lead system. I'm busy all trip working up a fish, then keeping them in the swim. I've also had bigger bags of fish trotting, but I am aware that's down to the way I'm feeding the fish. I hope this gives a little better understanding to those that think, when trotting we fish too light, we don't when you understand it more.

Rich.

That sounds like an excellent description of playing barbel on float gear where you have no snags for them to aim for.
They fight altogether differently if they have a hidey hole nearby! I know a few spots like this and catching the fish in those swims is serious fun and you really have to use heavier lines, at least 6lb and hit and hold comes into play....very exciting :).
 

whitty

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I would completely ignore any stated breaking strain of mono. It has no relevance to the actual breaking strain itself. I've caught big chub (5lb+) on the old 1.7lb drennan hooktie which was pretty much the same diameter as Bayer if my memory serves me correctly. Barbel could be a different matter though. I usually fish finer than most but .18mm is going some.
Mick,ignoring might be the wrong choice of word,at least for me anyway,as the line has to break at what you consider the 'right ' sort of areas and with the amount of garbage lines out there,strength is just one issue,I used to use a line,a copolymer,strength was excellent,abrasion resistance was good,line lay good,but for some reason it just didn't cast well,it was like it had dried fruit juice on it,the line was sufix primo,so I believe,it was hopeless for trotting or feeder fishing,still have a few spools.
 

tigger

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Thanks Tigger.

Rich/
Your welcome bud.
I have noticed they fight differently on various rivers also. They never seem to go very far in either direction in a smaller river. On the larger river I fish they do sometimes bolt off downstream a fair old way. Ive had them run such long distances downstream that ive thought they where gonna be foul hooked . There are swims that I fish where they do as you describe and just bolt to a spot in the mmiddle of the river where its a case of give and take until they tire enough to be drawn to the net or to hand.
On some sesions every fish has done the same thing and as daft as it sounds it has actually become monotonous.
 

Jeff Woodhouse

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The creator of Fishingmagic and it's editor for many years, Graham Marsden, had a big theory about line strengths and fighting fish.
Look at the test curve of your rod, a float rod is perhaps around .75lb when it bends at 90°. You will set the drag on your reel to pay line at that point so the line, in theory, never is tested to much above 1lb. Even with carp rods of 3lbs T/C the line may never be tested above 4 or five pounds even with a hard fighting carp.
Even the drags on some reels have a manufactured limit of around 6 or 7lbs so line is most unlikely to have to exceed that despite using 18lbs line. It might surprise some people how little stress they are putting on their line when they 'bend into a fish'.
However, you must also err on the side of caution and allow for snags and sudden jerks, such as the strike. For this you should really double the test curve at the very least and preferably aim for around 5 times (according to John Wilson and others) the T/C as a main line. So a 1½lbs rod will be happy with a 7-8lbs line.
These days I pay little attention to line strengths and instead work on diameters and I also measure each spool of line I purchase with a micrometer and write it on the spool crossing through the manufacturer's test. I never have believed in this 'fine line or nothing' principle and go from what experience has told me in the past.
I did catch an unexpected chub of 5lbs 7ozs once on line that was supposedly 1.4lbs b/s Drennan and in a swollen river, but that was sheer good luck and in now way on my part down to skill.
Just got to use a bit of common sense.
 

whitty

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Lets be honest,it's possible to land big fish on light tackle,if you have balanced tackle,patience and the room to play the fish,that said many anglers don't apply anything like the pressure that they could,i've said this before but carp anglers fishing 3lb test rods dare not bend into fish because of hook pulls,yet many tell me that they have to use them and so should everyone else,total piffle and shows how little understanding they have of the tackle they use...
 

sam vimes

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It's always been possible to land big fish on light tackle, and it always will be. However, attitudes have changed significantly over the years. Angling philosophy has changed. Influenced mainly by the carp/speci scene, younger anglers don't tend to look to fish with the lightest tackle they can get away with. They are more likely to use the heaviest gear that they can and still get the odd take. It's precisely why many, including lots on here, find carpers so amusing. Sitting there, all but biteless, while a "noddy" in the next peg bags up. It's also quite apparent in the questions you regularly see on forums. I've lost count of the number of times that people ask about float rods for smaller species, but they want to go heavy because the biggest carp in the fishery is 40lb. The fact that they are fishing for roach and rudd should be the priority, not the vague chance of hooking Moby ****.

The "go heavy or go home" attitude has seeped into other forms of specimen angling. I suspect that some on here would have kittens if they knew the kind of set ups that some (very successful anglers) are using for big roach, let alone barbel, tench or bream. Many carp/speci anglers actually consider fishing what they consider to be too light to be irresponsible. Playing fish for too long is not considered to be a good thing by many.

I've walked both roads now and prefer to go somewhere in the middle. I want to enjoy a fight, always retain the upper hand, but not have total dominance. Barring the odd unusually insipid fish, I want to use gear appropriate for the species and sizes of fish I'm targeting. I don't worry about the 30lb+ carp that could take the bait intended for roach.
 
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