Losing roach whilst fishing the banded pellet.

[Alan Whitty]

Question time guys, it has always been a bit of a problem but this season it seems worse, on the river I lost at least double the amount that I landed(these were 8ozs to a pound fish), this is in less than 3ft of water, this is relevant as two sessions on the slider had results almost as bad in say 13ft , with fish from 4-12ozs being caught and lost, hooks were size 16 or 14 in two or three barbless patterns as the river venue is barbless only, now I've been racking my brain trying to work out why its happening and how to get over the problem, first thoughts were it's being exasperated by the rod choice, a Cadence 13ft #3(chosen because of the possible bigger fish risk on both venues), which I've used before with far better results, but think I may have to use a lighter float rod, the the way I'm using the band which is a Drennan medium pellet band is hooking the band at one end, my worries are that the pellet is too close to the hook thus impeding where the point of the hook enters the roaches lip,do I try to mount the band on a tiny loop hair rig style,which may cause issues if bands break,I've recently bought different bands with a tiny lug where you mount the hook in the hope it might work better, suggestions on a post card please, lol???

 

[peterjg]

With pellets (or mini boilies) use hooks with inturned points such as Guru QM1 size 14 or eyed B911. Use a "mini" size Drennan band tied in a tiny loop at the end of a hair rigged knotless knot - yes it's fiddly to tie! The gap between the bend of the hook and bait should be 2 - 3mm. I prefer (if possible) to lay-on or upstream leger. Good luck.

 

[RMNDIL]

I'm no expert with banded baits but it sounds as if the band & bait are 'fixed' being as the band is hooked and so not moving out of the way or enough when hooking. Then it's stopping the hook penetrating enough or penetrating in the right place. So a loose bait would seem better and that means a hair with band or lasso. Unless.... you can make a bigger hole in the band with a needle so that when the hook is threaded it is loose and can easily move around (like pinning hemp). But then the band might rip more easily.

 

[markcw]

You can buy ready made banded hooklengths .
Or have you tried pumping a few expanders and hooking direct ?

 

[Alan Whitty]

Yes Mark, trouble is, it leaves you open for the smaller roach on the lake,tiny chublets on the river, I'm quite dextrous so tying a hooking with a band isn't that much of a problem, but bands breaking would make it a pain in the harris...especially when you are catching lots of other fish.

 

[Philip]

If your hooking the actual band to mount the pellet then that will absolutly cost you fish.

I use Drennan pellet bands as well and I always mount them on a very short hair (not a loop) else the hook point can be impeded by the pellet itself.

I also tried bands with lugs...better..but still worse than short hair.

 

[Alan Whitty]

I'm no expert with banded baits but it sounds as if the band & bait are 'fixed' being as the band is hooked and so not moving out of the way or enough when hooking. Then it's stopping the hook penetrating enough or penetrating in the right place. So a loose bait would seem better and that means a hair with band or lasso. Unless.... you can make a bigger hole in the band with a needle so that when the hook is threaded it is loose and can easily move around (like pinning hemp). But then the band might rip more easily.

Your post is what I'm thinking Richard, a 6mm pellet is normal bait of choice, 4mm being prone to smaller nuisance fish I'm thinking about mounting the band near the spade/eye, thus leaving the hook point and bend clear, my fear is that the crafty roach will stick two fingers up and say I'm not eating that pp presentation...

 

[Alan Whitty]

Trouble is Philip I catch a lot of barbel, chub, carp, bream etc without issue, probably the bigger fishes weight just moves the band enough to alleviate the issue...
To add, a hair also causes problems when catching fair amounts of fish on fairly light hooklengths getting caught in the landing net, usually 0.14mm to 0.18mm depending on the risks of bigger fish as obviously hooking several barbel or chub on the river, or carp, cats, tench or bream on the lake, along with the pike on the lake that require all roach being got out as quick as possible as I'm not happy about losing fish to 2.8 to a poxy jack!

 

[Philip]

Not sure I follow what your saying Alan about bigger fishes weight alleviates the problem

...are you saying that you dont get lose bigger fish by hooking the band ?

 

[Alan Whitty]

Yes,I think the weight of the larger fish on the strike moves the band a fraction,even big roach don't seem to come off, 2lb plus fish, its the roach up to 1.8 come off continually, sometimes 8 fish in a row, now that is simply going to ruin my chances of the better ones, plus my confidence is low as in I feel I'm making a big tactical error somewhere.

 

[Alan Whitty]

I've changes depths, shotting, feeding etc thinking that's the problem.

 

[Alan Whitty]

Sometimes I think I'm making too much of it, but that's not in my nature, I feel I have things to sort, probably several lol.

 

[nottskev]

I'm not a big user of pellets, other than as feed, expanders on the hook, or bigger pellets for "slow" fishing, but I like to lasso them. It's neater-looking if you lose the band and you can easily vary how far from the hook to place the bait. The only issue is it's slower and more fiddly to re-bait if the fishing is busy.

I remember there used to be big debates among top match anglers about hook patterns for river roach, and the feeling that some definitely keep fish on better. You don't think it might be a bit of both? Though I'm guessing you're using a pattern that gets them all out when you're on other baits/presentations.

 

[markcw]

Instead of a band have you tried a lasoo ?
Or a few turns of some line around the pellet , you can do a batch like this . Some nail varnish on line . Then put the hook between line and pellet , less chance of it moving that way . Or leave a tag of line from the hook and superglue a pellet to that .

 

[markcw]

Regarding lasoo. Middy do ready lasoo rigs .very easy to use . I've had some success with them

 

[Alan Whitty]

I haven't tried a lasso, in fact I've never been bothered to learn much about the method...

As for hooks Kev, yes I've been using very good patterns for other baits and presentations, but I'm struggling to get to grips here, you always bump a few roach, especially on the stick float, but on maggot in the winter it is minimal...

 

[Philip]

My biggest issue with the hook in the band itself is not so much losing fish but not hooking them in the first place as the hook can turn to lie against the pellet masking the point plus the hook it just so close to the bait I can imagine it would creates losses as well with the hook point not going in far enough when you hook them.

Not for Roach but I quite often use bait screws for mounting baits for Carp especially on rivers were its going to get moved around alot...mounted correctly it is impossible for the bait to turn over to mask the hookpoint...however you would need a very small bait screw (or spike) and a pellet that can be screwed on. A tiny swimmer rig (loop to back of hook) does the same thing but alot more fiddly and has two weak points to break.

Worth saying the hairs I use for Roach are very short, its rare for them to get caught in the net but yes, its not a tactic I use for loads of little fish so I am not catching large numbers.

The reason you don’t lose the bigger fish or bigger Roach could be as simple as that they got the bait and hook further into their mouth as being bigger they have bigger mouths.

If your hook is not blunt or turned over and your losing 8 in a row thats a pretty good indication there is a setup issue.

Footnote...I tried wide gapes (Drennan) for a while with banded baits and I lost more Roach with those...wont use them now for this type of fishing.

 

[nottskev]

Tie one up and see how it looks to you, Alan.

You start with a sliding loop, using a Grinner/Uni knot.
Put your pellet in the loop and tighten it down.
Then attach your hook, hair-rig style, leaving whatever gap you judge best between hook and pellet, the minimum being enough to let you open the loop enough to re-bait..
You can whip down the number of turns that makes the loop-hair come off the shank/bend where you think best, or add a little bit of silicone on the shank to trap it where you like.
It's worth a tie, just so you can inspect how it looks.

 

[Alan Whitty]

I am religious when I hook a drennan band on, I flatten the band between thumb and forefinger and the hook through the narrowest point of the band but just so the hook penetrator both sides, and I mean just as if you don't the hook doesn't lay right in relation to the band, another phobia of mine is that I've never caught many fish hair rigging on the float, in fact I'm not sure I've caught any... just to add I think if I were allowed to use a micro barbed hook the problem would be greatly reduced...

 

[peterjg]

Whitty - how the pellet is fixed is important but your biggest problem is the actual hook pattern.