Pike fishing in the summer?

[Kevin aka Aethelbald]

My problem is that I simply don't have the experience to confidently say that I can catch a big pike, unhook it and release it safely at this stage.

I was in the same boat, so to speak, a couple of weeks ago and then landed my first pike on a lure. I was really only interested in removing and relocating nuisance pike, but now that I've caught one I'm investing in the right rod... made me realise how catching pike could be so much fun.

The handling and unhooking wasn't as scary as I imagined, in part because the hook was in the jaws and easily removed, but I had long-nosed pliers at the ready, if needed, and had read about going in behind the gills if necessary to remove a hook. I'd also read a lot here and watched videos of how to handle a pike.

As long as you're prepared and have the right tools, you'll probably surprise yourself once you've caught your first one (which might now be the case, at the time of writing) and lack of confidence will no longer be an issue.
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[chrisjpainter]

My problem is that I simply don't have the experience to confidently say that I can catch a big pike, unhook it and release it safely at this stage. I only just started pike fishing last winter and was 100% unsuccessful on the river Trent near where I live. As time went on I 'downgraded' to the canals where after a few trips found myself having good success with pike and perch on the lures and I really started to learn a lot. I'm now hoping to use that knowledge on the river.

The handling and unhooking wasn't as scary as I imagined, in part because the hook was in the jaws and easily removed, but I had long-nosed pliers at the ready, if needed, and had read about going in behind the gills if necessary to remove a hook. I'd also read a lot here and watched videos of how to handle a pike.

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Big pike are a lot easier to unhook than little pike. The grip's easier to get when chinning and everything's so much more spacious. And I find barbless lure hooks a lot easier to unhook quickly than deadbait hooks. They're bigger and easier to put an unhooking force on. It comes down to confidence really - and having the right tools for the job. My go to weapon is a set of pistol grips (below). I find the get your hand right out of the way. It's not about getting bitten, it's more giving you a clear line of sight straight down to the hook. Then I carry long reach pliers and as a last resort, long reach hook cutters. But I've never needed them.

all of those are easier to use when it's a big ol' gob to look into!

 

[Badgerale]

I might occasionally lure fish before October but i wouldn't deadbait.

Reason being i've never had a problem with unhooking lures - and single hook lures are even easier. I think deadbaiting has a much higher risk of deep hooking.

I get that you can deep hook just as easily in the winter, but I think the point is the fish will better withstand the stress and time out the water that the unhooking might require.

 

[steve2]

I have never understood why the PAC members will happily fish pike spawning ground for spawn filled females but say don't fish for pike in summer when they are at their fittest.

 

[Ray Roberts]

I have never understood why the PAC members will happily fish pike spawning ground for spawn filled females but say don't fish for pike in summer when they are at their fittest.

I had the same argument with some rather eminent pike anglers in the letters section of the old Coarse Fisherman magazine a couple of decades ago. It arose after one of them suggested it was a good idea to fish for them in the shallows as they gathered to spawn.


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[John Aston]

I have never understood why the PAC members will happily fish pike spawning ground for spawn filled females but say don't fish for pike in summer when they are at their fittest.

Indeed . And I won't take lectures in fish care from somebody who has just been fishing a live roach with a treble in its back either.

 

[Kevin aka Aethelbald]

Indeed . And I won't take lectures in fish care from somebody who has just been fishing a live roach with a treble in its back either.

Jeez... I can't believe that live baiting is still legal. Just read the PAC code of conduct - it's got hypocrisy written all over it.
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[John Aston]

Well, it's perfectly legal, and it's a matter of conscience .Deciding where one stands upon such issues is complicated. I don't like livebaiting. and think it is terrible PR , but I manage to feel comfortable about impaling a fish in the mouth to catch it , because I play it quickly and almost always release it. It gets more complicated still, because I may use a live bait , worm or maggot typically, on the ground that they are very basic life forms unlikely to feel pain as we understand it. We elevate fish to a higher level of sentience , but we usually dismiss any studies that suggest they feel major distress by being caught . But ,in our contrary fashion, some of us treat landed fish as infants to be named and adored , going so far as to treat the hooking injury with special potions.

My position on livebaiting with fish is simply that , as politicians say , the graphics are awful. It isn't a good look in 2023

 

[Badgerale]

Haha, when it comes to animal treatment humans are inconsistent to put it nicely.

We will happily have thousands of chickens, pigs and cows killed for us every year, but if someone kicks a dog we get our pitchforks out in rage. As if a dog is smarter or more sensitive than that bacon sandwich you ate this morning.

 

[Richard Bartlett]

Putting aside livebaiting ethics for a moment, the main reason piking in summer is discouraged is because, prior to the recent upsurge in the popularity of lure fishing, most piking was using deadbaits, given the ease with which they can be obtained/stored. In summer pike tend to take baits much more quickly than in winter so unless the angler is really on the ball the chances of deep hooking are greatly amplified. Sadly, not all pike anglers are on the ball and when they deep hook a fish, lack the skills to properly deal with it.
Lure fishing for summer pike? Not a problem - I've done lots of it in the past, had great days doing it, and see no reason not to continue.

 

[steve2]

One thing we have to be careful with in angling is when people say you can't do this or that on fish welfare grounds, if so where does it end..
Every vastly overstocked commercial ponds say the rules are in place for fish welfare, now that must be the biggest joke in angling.

 

[Philip]

The whole fish welfare argument to justify angling as a sport is screwed. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

 

[Kevin aka Aethelbald]

Angling can be justified on the basis of welfare.

If I'm ever asked to justify angling, I explain that the quid pro quo of causing temporary discomfort to a creature with a tiny brain, is that I buy a £33.00 Environment Agency rod licence each year, for the upkeep of our rivers, the health of our fish stocks and for lobbying government against those who cause pollution and harm. A high percentage of my annual club membership contributes further to maintenance of our waters. And my activities support a retail and manufacturing industry that provides jobs for thousands in the UK and revenues for the treasury, which it spends on the NHS, schools, security, etc etc.

I then ask what they think the impact would be on our waterways, if it wasn't for the revenues that derive from the 1.5m anglers in this country.
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[steve2]

Didn't hunting also support thousands of country jobs and we know what happened there. Also performing animals in the circus for entertainment was banned but it is no different to hook a carp in a overstocked pond for entertainment

 

[Philip]

Angling can be justified on the basis of welfare.

If I'm ever asked to justify angling, I explain that the quid pro quo of causing temporary discomfort to a creature with a tiny brain, is that I buy a £33.00 Environment Agency rod licence each year, for the upkeep of our rivers, the health of our fish stocks and for lobbying government against those who cause pollution and harm. A high percentage of my annual club membership contributes further to maintenance of our waters. And my activities support a retail and manufacturing industry that provides jobs for thousands in the UK and revenues for the treasury, which it spends on the NHS, schools, security, etc etc.

I then ask what they think the impact would be on our waterways, if it wasn't for the revenues that derive from the 1.5m anglers in this country.

Yes I agree..thats pretty much my argument too ...basically the argument that Angling is the greater good i.e .fish are better off because of anglers..take us away and there would be less fish and worse enviroments for them.

My point was about trying to justify angling by showing how well we look after it AFTER we stick a hook in it. Welfare in that context...or more specifically to this thread, not fishing for them before October to avoid causing them too much distress.

Its a very fine balance between trying to educate anglers to treat the fish we pursue with respect and shooting outselves in the foot by implementing so many rules & restrictions that we may as well not go angling.

 

[Kevin aka Aethelbald]

Didn't hunting also support thousands of country jobs and we know what happened there. Also performing animals in the circus for entertainment was banned but it is no different to hook a carp in a overstocked pond for entertainment

Fox hunting never hid it's raison d'etre, which was to catch and kill foxes using dogs. Then, when it was felt necessary to justify the activity, it was as a means by which to limit fox numbers, but everyone knew the argument was hollow. People who ride horses can still do it without having to chase and kill a fox and I'd be willing to bet that very few lost their jobs when killing the fox was taken out of the equation. (I gather there are animal rights activists who think that even riding horses is cruel...)

I'd also wager that people will find alternative labour in the countryside if they ban grouse and pheasant shooting. Raising or protecting something for the sole purpose of killing it for sport is nothing like fishing. In fact, you could argue (and I do) that commercial fishing with nets and the slow suffocation of fish is infinitely more cruel than angling with a rod and line... yet we still love our cod and chips.

Much as I dislike carp ponds, I don't think you can compare bear baiting and the mis-treatment of circus animals, in any way, to the relatively natural life of pellet-fed fish in over-stocked ponds (although I've no idea how we even ascertain if a pond is over-stocked).

So I think we need to reflect carefully on how we think angling and our treatment of fish compares to other activities where animals are involved, willingly or otherwise, and have the arguments ready for anyone who cares to challenge us with specious comparisons to egregious animal cruelty.
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[John Aston]

My late dad was a keen fox hunter and I joined him at the odd meet on horseback -and my God it was boring most of the time.

Judged by years of my being with fox hunting folk -

-nobody cared a hoot whether they caught a fox or not .

- the essence of the sport is dressing up, having a good hard ride, notionally in pursuit of a fox , and in doing so showing off to your chums how high you can jump , how well your horse can swim over canals or prance over railway lines .

- And then drinking too much whisky


The sport employs very few people. Dad was hon sec and apart from MFH the only employees were a couple of folk at the kennels. Everybody else was day work , but usually volunteers. It was a classless sport , with everyone from local worthies to blokes from the pit . But because horses are bloody expensive , those on horse back tended to be comfortably off middle class folk - which some antis obviously saw as an opportunity to leverage protest into class warfare. A couple of folk I knew were ghastly folk - open goals for opponents - but most were just fine .


Nobody I ever met (and I met a lot) complied with the bloodthirsty toff stereotype. I am indifferent to it - viewing it as a rural pantomime some love to enjoy. If I cared much about the welfare of foxes I'd be more worried about the thousands run over every year..

BTW , Point of order on grouse - they are not raised like pheasants but breed exclusively in the wild .

 

[Badgerale]

I think the 'angler as ecologist' would ideally be the line I'd take. Conjours an image of tweed clad bearded men standing by rivers - being at one with nature - custodians of our waterways - that sort of thing.

But when I look at the majority of what fishing is these days - electronic gadgets in artificial ponds, people who are only interested in catching one species of unnatural bred fish.

It's about as far from ecologist as possible. The only pressure they seem to exert on our natural waters is to turn everything into a carp hole - and rant about otters.

 

[John Aston]

It's not as bad as you think. My group of angling chums fish scores of miles of wild streams and rivers , for wild fish , both game and coarse . And through good custody - riverfly monitoring , WQMN testing etc - we think we are reasonable custodians. We do have carp holes in the ground too, but in my area, North Yorkshire , there are plenty of natural and much loved stillwaters, from little brick pits to big gravel pits .

But I'd agree many anglers don't have a bloody clue about natural history , especially birds and insects. But they all do claim to know that every river needs re stocking (love the 're' , as if it were a regular thing ) 'cos otters ate all the fish innit .

 

[Kevin aka Aethelbald]

BTW , Point of order on grouse - they are not raised like pheasants but breed exclusively in the wild .

Correct, but I did say raising or protecting something with the sole purpose of killing it for sport - and to protect grouse numbers raptors are still illegally persecuted and the land is managed in a way that is ecologically inferior to the alternatives. And there are alternatives - recent tree-planting trials have proved that it's a myth that grouse moor cannot be put to different, and more biodiverse, use.

(I have had this argument before, with Mr, "I have lived next to a grouse moor for 50 years and I can assure you trees don't grow on grouse moor", so if anyone wants to kick off, be my guest, but count me out. )

Final thought. Perhaps, when we discuss the ethics and environmental benefits of angling, we should separate fishing natural waters and commercials, and think of them as two different sports.
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