prussian carp

[riverman]

Environment Agency warns of threat of Prussian carp and other non-native species in UK waters

Environment Agency’s National Fisheries Laboratory carries out crucial work to curb threats from Prussian carp in UK waters

www.gov.uk

apparantly these have been spotted in 9 fisheries in britain.
thoughts please?
steve.

 

[mikench]

I have never seen one or heard of one Steve but I doubt we will stop their spread if we only have the EA to rely on. They haven’t exactly had great success with Japanese Knotweed, Signal Crays,Mink, Parakeets, Zander to name but 5.

 

[Mark Wintle]

I identified them in a Dorset water a number of years ago through getting some DNA tests done and as part of the National Crucian Conservation Group passed on thge results to the EA who have been busy looking for them. Gibel carp (their correct name) have largely displaced true crucians across mainland Europe even though in many countries the old names for crucians are now applied to gibels.
It seems some UK fishery owners were taken in by cheap stock fish that were sold as 'silver crucians'.

 

[riverman]

I have never seen one or heard of one Steve but I doubt we will stop their spread if we only have the EA to rely on. They haven’t exactly had great success with Japanese Knotweed, Signal Crays,Mink, Parakeets, Zander to name but 5.

me neither mike.it was on bbc breakfast this morning. interesting article.

 

[@Clive]

They are common over here and as Mark says, they are referred to by the same name as crucians, i.e carassins. I'm not convinced about the erroneous purchase of gibels is the whole picture though. If you go back a couple of hundred years and read the books on British fish species it is obvious that gibels, prussian carp and crucians were mis identified by the experts of the day right back to the mid 1800's. The scale and ray counts are all over the place. It is only with the advancement of DNA testing that we now are aware of the distributions of the various species and their hybrids. Philip caught a common x gibel a few months back in France and I have seen a letter from the 18th century that discusses the common x crucian hybrid, or mule as it was termed in fish farming in Germany.

Whilst technically they aren't crucians, they bite like crucians, fight like crucians and are for all intents and purposes as nice a quarry to catch as crucians. I'm happy to live with that.

I would love to hear Mike's suggestions on how the EA could eradicate all the many non indiginous species that are present in the UK.

 

[mikench]

A journey of a thousand miles starts with just one step. They haven’t eradicated any to my knowledge nor have they done much , if anything about pollution in our waters, the discharging of untreated human waste and a myriad of other matters. Can you name me one significant and permanent achievement by the EA.

 

[nottskev]

Can you name me one significant and permanent achievement by the EA.

Calverton Fish Farm, outside Nottingham.

 

[rayner]

Beat me to it Kev.

 

[nottskev]

Beat me to it Kev.

Hi Gary. Good luck with all the upheavals of a house move.

 

[Keith Williams]

Environment Agency warns of threat of Prussian carp and other non-native species in UK waters

Environment Agency’s National Fisheries Laboratory carries out crucial work to curb threats from Prussian carp in UK waters

www.gov.uk

apparantly these have been spotted in 9 fisheries in britain.
thoughts please?
steve.

If found in a fishery, do the right response and report the Prussian ( Gibel) Carp soon as to the EA.
The damage these can do through hybridisation to our Crucuan Carp is very significant and will wipe out stocks.
There are those who don't care and think any fish caught is a " Great Fish" and return itthinking its grerat for the sport.
We need a program of educating all anglers what the meaning of Non Native Species truly means!
Look at the Spanish Authorities dilemna on the Ebro in Spain when Wels Cats are now classed as the worst Non Native Apex Predator and local vital stocks are being destroyed by the predation by wels.

 

[Keith Williams]

A journey of a thousand miles starts with just one step. They haven’t eradicated any to my knowledge nor have they done much , if anything about pollution in our waters, the discharging of untreated human waste and a myriad of other matters. Can you name me one significant and permanent achievement by the EA.

Maybe you can state a single fisheries related achievement that you have done that has brought any benefit to other anglers!
Its so easy to be an armchair EA beater critic from a distance!

 

[Keith Williams]

They are common over here and as Mark says, they are referred to by the same name as crucians, i.e carassins. I'm not convinced about the erroneous purchase of gibels is the whole picture though. If you go back a couple of hundred years and read the books on British fish species it is obvious that gibels, prussian carp and crucians were mis identified by the experts of the day right back to the mid 1800's. The scale and ray counts are all over the place. It is only with the advancement of DNA testing that we now are aware of the distributions of the various species and their hybrids. Philip caught a common x gibel a few months back in France and I have seen a letter from the 18th century that discusses the common x crucian hybrid, or mule as it was termed in fish farming in Germany.

Whilst technically they aren't crucians, they bite like crucians, fight like crucians and are for all intents and purposes as nice a quarry to catch as crucians. I'm happy to live with that.

I would love to hear Mike's suggestions on how the EA could eradicate all the many non indiginous species that are present in the UK.

The EA could do the work of eradicating Non Native species if only anglers took the time to report the ones caught instead of being stupidly returned to a water to do further harm.
Its not helped by the angling Media publishing pictures of Non Native fish being held by captors with a grin from ear to ear that are returned instead of advice being printed as to what not to do!

 

[@Clive]

The EA hasn't a chance of eradicating all the non indiginous species. It is an impossible task. Even to remove all the relative newcomers like signal crayfish would cost £ billions . The Spanish considered it and threw in the towel and they have far less water then the UK.

As for anglers not reporting captures being a problem Isuggedt that anglers stocking the damned things in the first place is more of a factor. Catfish can't travel overland and ducks can't carry the 20lb plus fish that are popping up everywhere..

 

[nottskev]

Maybe you can state a single fisheries related achievement that you have done that has brought any benefit to other anglers!
Its so easy to be an armchair EA beater critic from a distance!

My post was the first to make a positive reply to the "Name one good thing EA etc".

Since you ask, I join in work on club fisheries, litter pick etc on my local small river, write to authorities, coach beginners, take anglers as guests on excellent waters I'm lucky to have access to, put all my season and day ticket money into clubs and groups who maintain and improve old/natural waters waters and have played a small part in holding to account those charged with caring for our waterways since the days of the Dee Action Group chasing Welsh Water donkeys years ago.

Who are you, and what entitles you to drop in every six months and sound off?

 

[mikench]

Maybe you can state a single fisheries related achievement that you have done that has brought any benefit to other anglers!
Its so easy to be an armchair EA beater critic from a distance!

Are you related to RIP Van Winkle by any chance. I am a taxpayer despite being retired and have been one for 45 years. It’s my taxes that pay for services such as those the EA is supposed to provide. Angling is a hobby no more and whilst I have done several work parties I no longer do so nor want to as I do not have the time. What have you done exactly as the frequency of your posting would indicate you have plenty of time on your hands. Are you a troll ?
I cannot understand how you are described as an active member when you average less than 2 posts a year. You are as frequent as Christmas.

 

[Keith Williams]

The EA could do the work of eradicating Non Native species if only anglers took the time to report the ones caught instead of being stupidly returned to a water to do further harm.
Its not helped by the angling Media publishing pictures of Non Native fish being held by captors with a grin from ear to ear that are returned instead of giving advice to all being printed as to what not to do!

 

[Keith Williams]

Are you related to RIP Van Winkle by any chance. I am a taxpayer despite being retired and have been one for 45 years. It’s my taxes that pay for services such as those the EA is supposed to provide. Angling is a hobby no more and whilst I have done several work parties I no longer do so nor want to as I do not have the time. What have you done exactly as the frequency of your posting would indicate you have plenty of time on your hands. Are you a troll ?
I cannot understand how you are described as an active member when you average less than 2 posts a year. You are as frequent as Christmas.

I often read the replies of those that are clearly clueless on fisheries management and how to protect the sport that we should all strive to protect for our younger participants and the future.
Your attitude is whats wrong with the sport, feckless, arrogant and without consideration for all others in your small enclosed world of the occassional work party
For your information, I spent 35 yrs protecting fisheries, being noted in Both the High Court with commendations and by Parliament for services given.
Your reply is most certainly as close to a Troll as I've ever seen and nowhere does it state I have to be a perpetual commentator of this posts.
If thats your measure in life,I suggest you broaden your outlook vastly even take up golf as your no use to angling whatsoever!

 

[Keith Williams]

My post was the first to make a positive reply to the "Name one good thing EA etc".

Since you ask, I join in work on club fisheries, litter pick etc on my local small river, write to authorities, coach beginners, take anglers as guests on excellent waters I'm lucky to have access to, put all my season and day ticket money into clubs and groups who maintain and improve old/natural waters waters and have played a small part in holding to account those charged with caring for our waterways since the days of the Dee Action Group chasing Welsh Water donkeys years ago.

Who are you, and what entitles you to drop in every six months and sound off?

The defunct Dee Action group didn't gain much in its time as I recall and was not as competent to hold the NRA and EA Wales to acount at any time as its members didn't truly hold sufficient qualification in fisheries management skills to make effective challenge.
More than aware of what it takes to deal with fisheries and their offenders and brought many to the courts!

 

[nottskev]

The defunct Dee Action group didn't gain much in its time as I recall and was not as competent to hold the NRA and EA Wales to acount at any time as its members didn't truly hold sufficient qualification in fisheries management skills to make effective challenge.
More than aware of what it takes to deal with fisheries and their offenders and brought many to the courts!

After the Dee was plugged into Welsh upland reservoirs in the early 60's, and treated as a mere conduit to ferry water from stone-cold sources down to lowland waterworks, the cooling effect, inimical to recruitment, took decades to overcome. The rapid descent to the flood plain and the tree-lined middle stretches that kept sun off the margins, where fry live and feed, meant the cold reservoir water was still very cold when it got to the coarse fish zones. A degree of pollution from the industrial areas back of Wrexham didn't help water quality.

What was your contribution to analysing the problem and effecting improvement? I'm still wondering why you come on here like you're the saviour of angling and tell us we should be writing to MP's rather than talking about football. If you're such a big friend of angling, why are you just bitching and irritating people? If you have something to say about protecting fisheries, can't you say it without posturing and provoking?

 

[@Clive]

Last time he was on he claimed that the courts were prosecuting anglers for fishing without day tickets

If found in a fishery, do the right response and report the Prussian ( Gibel) Carp soon as to the EA.
The damage these can do through hybridisation to our Crucuan Carp is very significant and will wipe out stocks.
There are those who don't care and think any fish caught is a " Great Fish" and return itthinking its grerat for the sport.
We need a program of educating all anglers what the meaning of Non Native Species truly means!
Look at the Spanish Authorities dilemna on the Ebro in Spain when Wels Cats are now classed as the worst Non Native Apex Predator and local vital stocks are being destroyed by the predation by wels.

It is not just the introduction of wels catfish that Spanish authorities are concerned about. Anglers from northern Europe; Dutch, German, Belgians and British drive down to Spain with dustbins full of live roach, bream, chub and other bait fish to use for the catfish. Some of these livebaits escape and others are discarded alive at the end of the trip. These are not native species.

Then there are the American invaders; sun perch and ameriusus melas, a small catfish. Carp are unwelcome too by the authorities.

Same in France plus the gobies that are swarming in rivers of the north-east.

It would be impossible to remove these species.