Single hook traces

[scottiedog]

What are your thoughts about single hook dead/live bait traces?

 

[Cliff Hatton]

Gawd, I'm gonna get some stick for this but I'll go ahead in the certainty that my thoughts are never likely to be implemented. I'd actually welcome a 'singles-only' ruling. I've caught plenty of pike - including my biggest - on single hooks and would even tentatively advocate hair-rigging for pike with single hooks. Most of us will be aware of - or remember - the bad old days when esox lucius had a real bad time of things and, let's be frank, we've ALL had bad experiences with deep-hooked pike. It's not pretty is it? The very commendable advice today is that runs should be struck immediately but, like it or not, it's a fact that pike often DO hold and cruise around with a bait crossways so an immediate strike will result in failure. Were we to adopt singles-only tactics successful hookings would be easily negotiated without the errr...difficulties that so often obtain: quick, minimal damage, no mess, one satisfied angler.
Purely in order to illustrate a point (and not as a recommendation) a hair-rigged dead-bait on a single hook COULD actually be left to 'run' for a very long time and still hook the pike within the mouth cavity:think of a tail-hooked 6" deadbait on a 6" hair.

 

[rains]

For live baits and deads maybe for lures NO

 

[BarryC]

I have only been sereous pike fishing for the past 3 winters.
I have only ever used single hooks, almost exclusively with hair rigged baits using a tagging gun.
My regular companion has had dozens of years experience and uses conventional snap tackle with trebles.
Our missed runs rates are almost identical and we both usually strike very early, just a few seconds after bite indication using drop offs and open bales.
With most of my fish I rarely have to open the pikes mouth to unhook. I often only do so just to check for other anglers rigs.
I have had two deep hooked fish when striking very early and have also missed fish after leaving some time.
I am sure that sometimes a pike will drop on a bait and just swallow it without moving at all.
In these situations I am happier having to remove a single than a set of trebles.
I think the most valuable tool is experience and theres only one way to get that which can involve getting it wrong.
Incidently one of my most memorable days this winter was watching my pal remove someone elses trace from a very deeply hooked fish. Neither of the trebles were in sight and it was a real eye opener helping him expertly bring the hooks into sight and remove them and then return the pikes stomach into place with a frozen mackerel.
I certainly do'nt feel that singles are the be all and end all to pike safety but they do give the inexperienced angler more confidence.

Although I would not advocate a singles only rule nationaly I feel sure that if pike angling was to start tommorrow trebles would'nt be allowed.

 

[Cliff Hatton]

Nice post, Barry. I'm amazed this subject has prompted only two comments...amazed! (But then, we're not talking carp are we...) I still have the bundle of ironmongery I removed from a low double many years ago at the very snaggy Grangewater in Essex: 9 hooks, 3 swivels and loads of wire from various traces. I think the picture is very much better nowadays and, on balance, I'd support immediate striking to be on the safe side. Fish will be missed but it's a small price to pay for the long term good of the species. Do stick to singles, Barry. Without advocating an unduly long pause before striking I do believe you'll be able to fish with more 'confidence' knowing that it's only a single hook in your quarry's mouth. And yes, isn't it satisfying unhooking and releasing a pike without having to open its jaws? Feels good, doesn't it!

 

[barbelboi]

Probably not attracted many comments Cliff as it's been done a few times over the last couple of years. For what it's worth I first started using singles on lip hooked live baits in the early 70's for close up fishing at Marlow Weir - I use both singles and trebles as to which I believe are most suited for the job at the time.
Jerry
PS I believe missed bites are generally jacks - if a decent pike's got the bait in it's mouth an immediate strike will probably connect far more often than not.

 

[Wilko]

I thought I'd resurrect this thread as I missed it first time around and am a strong believer that the use of single hook rigs, whether it be a single treble or single hook (such as a circle), should be encouraged for pike fishing in the future.

I have fished for pike since the late '70s (I fish for all species but have a soft spot for pike)and took the advice given by the late Barry Rickards in the book co-written by Ray Webb, 'Fishing for big pike' as sensible, sound and visionary (much, if not all of it still holds true today, thoroughly recommended to anybody with an interest in 'piking'). In it Dr Rickards advocates the use of single treble rigs for deadbaiting as opposed to multihook rigs and concludes that in his own experiences of using both set ups, the single rig is the most desirable as if set up correctly, it encourages a quick strike, causes less problems in constructing and setting up, is easier to unhook, causes less injury (to the pike and angler) and is no less effective than other rigs in safely landing the fish (he did know a thing or two about pike fishing).

I know that we have moved on a bit since then but the argument is still sound; there is little if any evidence to show that single rigs (in this case single treble rigs) are less effective at getting a fish to the bank than multi hook rigs*, in fact there is some evidence to show that more runs are produced from the former.
I personally believe that multi hooks are unnecessary and are consciously used as a belt and braces approach and would prefer to (and do) use single hook rigs for deadbaiting as the standard rig.

So why do anglers still use multi hook rigs for their deadbaitng?

Would be interested in any response to this debate, particulary in using the circle pattern hook (I haven't tried them yet) as it is often touched on but never fully discussed.


*There is a valid opinion that smaller (Jack) pike are less likely to be hooked as the span of the mouth is less than that of the bigger pike.

 

[binka]

I know that we have moved on a bit since then but the argument is still sound; there is little if any evidence to show that single rigs (in this case single treble rigs) are less effective at getting a fish to the bank than multi hook rigs*, in fact there is some evidence to show that more runs are produced from the former.
I personally believe that multi hooks are unnecessary and are consciously used as a belt and braces approach and would prefer to (and do) use single hook rigs for deadbaiting as the standard rig.

So why do anglers still use multi hook rigs for their deadbaitng?

I think you're spot on with the belt and braces theory which in my mind ties in nicely with the old confidence trick.

I've used the double VB type of hooks to good effect in the past and can't for the life of me remember why I reverted back to trebles... most probably because that's all they had when I went to the tackle shop.

It's long been an objective to get on to singles although I've no experience of circle hooks but the lad I've been coaching in to piking over the last twelve months is now using single long shank Aberdeen hooks in sizes 1/0 - 3/0 and to very good effect too.

We've double pegged together and fished yards apart and I've watched him land three good zander and a nice double pike on a single hook rig whilst I've settled for three pike.

I'm not sure what the conclusion is there other than zander may have preferred the finer approach of a single hook but what was evident was that the single hook was no less effective at all than the conventional double treble rig.

 

[Wilko]

I've used the double VB type of hooks to good effect in the past and can't for the life of me remember why I reverted back to trebles... most probably because that's all they had when I went to the tackle shop........................................

I'm not sure what the conclusion is there other than zander may have preferred the finer approach of a single hook but what was evident was that the single hook was no less effective at all than the conventional double treble rig.

The thing is, even though I use a single treble, I use it with two of the points in the bait so that the remaining exposed, single point is proud, stable and at a right angle to the bait so I only ever hook with a single point anyway!

Further bonuses with a single hook rig are that knots, turns and twists are kept to a minimum, leaving only two weaker points per trace (one at each end) with no need to further compromise the wire by tying in another hook part way along it and a single hook rig means that you need less traces in your bin as the hook size is the only variable.

 

[Wilko]

I'd actually welcome a 'singles-only' ruling. I've caught plenty of pike - including my biggest - on single hooks and would even tentatively advocate hair-rigging for pike with single hooks.

Purely in order to illustrate a point (and not as a recommendation) a hair-rigged dead-bait on a single hook COULD actually be left to 'run' for a very long time and still hook the pike within the mouth cavity.

No need to be "tentative" about it Cliff, the kebab rig is exactly that, a hair rig for pike and with the addition of a circle pattern hook becomes a bolt rig.

Going back to the 'Big Pike' book, in 1971 Ray webb actually suggested hooking the bait near the tail for pike hotspots, were it was found that a pike would take and swallow a bait without moving, doing this hugely reduced the incidents of deep hooking, in effect, he was using the principle of the hair rig but without the hair.

 

[admau]

Hi, I used size 2 single hooks for the first time yesterday, I was using small dead roach,had three pike all hooked in the jaw, hooks were barbless so unhooking was a doodle.wish I had changed to singles years ago.For your info I was float fishing and all the fish were hooked with a quick strike as soon as the float registered the take.

 

[aardvark64]

I've been fishing for Pike for about 30 years and back in the 80's I and many of my friends used Trebles and had our share of dep hooked fish and with trebles it could be difficult to extract the hooks quickly and I have witnessed many times one treble tangling the net up again making extraction a Pain in the behind.

For the last 12 years I have used single hooks either singly with or without hair or pennel style (like you would for rigging sqid for bass in sea fishing) and I havenever had adeep hooked fish. If the hooks are placed correctly in the bait and allowed to protude from the bait they will hook properly even on an immediate strike

I do noy wait as soon as the float dips or the line moves of the spool after the drop offhas fallen I strike.

I use braid which gives a better connection with the fish and rarely miss bites
The hooks often fall out as the fish hits the net.

I use Mustad Vikings 1/0 to 3/0 for the bottom hook and partidge size 1 - 4 for the uper hook on Pennels

I also use Catfish hooks for live bait fishing and somitmes use Circle Hooks

I crush the barbs of the barbed hooks and file them to produce a lump, this holds well and does not sip or tear as barbless hooks can

These modifications help me get a high percentage of hook ups and prevent loss of fish.

I would not ever return to using trebles and find it strange that all the advice you get in the press about Pike Fishing promotes the use of treble hooks and still find myself removing them from the fish of novice anglers who take up Piking during the 'season' armed with the trace and rig making knowledge they have aquired from a 2 page article in the angling press.

I think it's time that the use of single hooks is promoted by fisheries to protect vulnerable pike. a local lake I fish has a single hook and plastic coated trace rule which I agree with whole heartedly......

 

[binka]

I've been thinking about this single v's treble debate for some time and can't really make my mind up.

Firstly and the easily dismissed is that deep hooked fish are a matter of timing and nothing to do with hook type... the ease of which you can remove the hook/s from a deep hooked fish is an entirely different matter.

But back to the single v's treble debate I have on most occasions found that only one hook in a set of trebles has taken hold in a hooked fish.

Yes it can be a pain in the r'se with other hooks getting caught in the net but for the counter argument whenever I have witnessed single hooks in use or myself used single hooks they tend to be size 1/0 upwards where as the trebles I use the most (8, 6 and occasionally 4's) are much smaller therefore causing less damage to the fish?

Just a counter opinion

 

[Wilko]

I think it's time that the use of single hooks is promoted by fisheries to protect vulnerable pike. a local lake I fish has a single hook and plastic coated trace rule which I agree with whole heartedly......

I am bemused as to why the angling press, fisheries, clubs etc are reluctant to re-educate present and future Pike anglers away from trebles or at least multi treble rigs. There is more than enough evidence to prove the advantages of using alternatives but it continues, is it laziness? It can't be reluctance as many anglers are more than keen to take on the latest methods.

 

[aardvark64]

I ummed and arred for a while moving back and forth between singles and trebles for a while and came to the conclusion that I now i put hook choice down to what u feel comfortable with.

Whatever hook type u use Confidence is the key. To catch fish consistantly you have to have confidence in the tackle and rigs you are using.

Knowing u can strike early and secure a mouth hooked fish, that will stay on and then effectively, efficiently and safely remove the hook and return the fish in tip top condition is the main thing.

Discussion is good and I value highly the opinions of all my fellow anglers, because even at almost 50 old dogs are never too old to learn new tricks and I value any knowledge that will improve my fishing.....

 

[robtherake]

I would guess that few casual pike anglers make up their own traces, instead relying on shop bought snaps, which in most cases carry a pair of trebles. Perhaps if the choice was better - and manufacturers provided more traces supplied with singles as standard - then we'd begin to see a change.

It'd be interesting to know how much of the gear left in pike is attributable to inexperience or ignorance, rather than lost fish.

I suspect much of it's left there by those who are happy to fish for them, but have either poor unhooking/fish handling skills or no conscience.

 

[pointngo]

it's an interesting subject and one which I doubt will ever be agreed on. I've used, and still do occasionally, single hooks for small baits and haven't had any problem setting the hooks but on larger baits I don't think the mechanics work so well.

if a large single was used with a big bait it's very possible that the hook won't be in the mouth when striking, unless the run is left for a while, which most responsible pike anglers know is unsafe.

The one possible option for this could be a circle hook which in theory could be left longer before striking but be under no illusions, circle hooks, especially those with an offset point, don't always catch in the corner of the mouth and can be swallowed as easy as any other hook. A circle hook down the throat would be a lot harder to remove than any other hook as it has to turn nearly 180° if it goes past any barb left on it.

when using a pair of trebles it is much more likely that one of them is in the mouth as soon as the pike picks up the bait, which would enable an immediate strike. The problems usually come when the run is left too long or the take isn't registered quickly enough.

As Binka has said as well, when singles are used they are usually 1/0 and larger which can penetrate through the roof of the mouth and cause serious damage. The gape on a size 6 or 8 treble is much smaller so can't physically go in that far. The same applies to the gauge of the wire.. a big single uses heavy gauge which causes much bigger holes.

Unfortunately deep hooking will always be a small part of pike fishing due to the way they sometimes feed.. they don't always move off with a bait. I think we all just have to try and minimise any potential problems by using sensitive indication, striking early (even if it means a few missed fish) and being vigilant, along with using suitably heavy tackle ie 15lb mono or 40lb+ braid. Of course, semi barbed hooks, of whatever type, are a must in case a fish does get deep hooked.

I've long been of the opinion that a Predator Rod License should be implemented, with perhaps even a written test and/or a set of guidelines, but with all things license related, policing it would be the issue as it is with the current license system.

 

[Wilko]

As Binka has said as well, when singles are used they are usually 1/0 and larger which can penetrate through the roof of the mouth and cause serious damage. The gape on a size 6 or 8 treble is much smaller so can't physically go in that far. The same applies to the gauge of the wire.. a big single uses heavy gauge which causes much bigger holes.QUOTE]

This a point I hadn't really considered, maybe a case for tackle companies to produce a Pike specific single?

 

[keora]

I've pike fished with traditional wire traces and two treble hooks for many years. I've also experimented with various combinations: two double hooks on a trace, a treble and a single on a trace, and a treble on a trace. Since last year I now use one big single hook on a trace.

I make a trace from about 15 inches of 30 lb bs wire, and at the end I crimp a single hook - about a size 1 or a size 1/0. The best hook to use is a long shank carp hook. You could try some cheap parrot beak hooks (I think that's what they are called) with sliced shanks. I've also tried Aberdeen hooks, used for sea fishing, but found them unsuitable - the hook wire was rather soft and the hook often opened up under pressure.

Provided you don't use baits bigger than about 6 inches in length, single hook rigs are fine for pike fishing. I don't lose any more pike than when I used conventional traces with two treble hooks.

A single hook is much easier to remove because it usually takes hold in the scissors or the edge of the pike's jaw. And you avoid flying trebles, when an end treble catches up in the net on landing the fish.

 

[jet53]

Glad I read this thread. Having given up Piking many years ago due to welfare concerns about the fish, about 6 months ago I got interested again and so tried to get an answer from the PAC about safer rigs for Pike to see if anything had changed with the passing of time.

I got no reply to my E mail and so left it there but I knew there had to be a better way.

The larger hook sizes mentioned is a concern but surely the hair rig mentioned would enable a 6 to be used?