Single hook traces

[mick b]

Guys please don't use sh1t hooks for pike fishing!

Add up all the money you spend getting to the bankside ready to cast in and then ask yourself why you are using rubbish hooks to try and catch, what could be your fish of a lifetime??? (To say nothing of the welfare of the fish if, and they will someday, break off in a fish).

Please use a quality hook from a reputable manufacturer, they don't cost a lot more pence, wont break off in a fish or allow your fish of a lifetime to escape.

PS
Those "parrot beak, sliced shank" hooks, are usually referred to as baitholders with millions being produced in China every day!

 

[Chris Campbell]

No need to be "tentative" about it Cliff, the kebab rig is exactly that, a hair rig for pike and with the addition of a circle pattern hook becomes a bolt rig.

Will a bolt rig securely hook pike? Pikes mouths are bony and hard compared to that of a carp still think you would need a good firm strike.

 

[Wilko]

Yeah, I shouldn't have used the term bolt rig in the conventional sense. Initially the hook would lightly bite but a firm pull still needs to be used to set the hook properly, I guess anti eject rig would be more accurate.

 

[keora]

Glad I read this thread. Having given up Piking many years ago due to welfare concerns about the fish, about 6 months ago I got interested again and so tried to get an answer from the PAC about safer rigs for Pike to see if anything had changed with the passing of time.

I got no reply to my E mail and so left it there but I knew there had to be a better way.

The larger hook sizes mentioned is a concern but surely the hair rig mentioned would enable a 6 to be used?

A larger size single hook used on a trace is far better for pike than a trace with two treble hooks. Single hooks are much easier to remove than trebles. A hair rig could be used for pike although I wouldn't use one because I don't think pike are that discerning.

 

[jet53]

Yes I totaly agree but I was thinking more in terms of the hair as a means positioning the hook and visualised a smallish bait on the hair tied head down and the size 6 on the end of the trace near the scissors of the tail.

Does anyone feel this would significantly reduce risk of hook contact with gills / rakers which was my (unanswered) question e mailed to the PAC?

 

[tiinker]

I use a kind of hair for all my predator fishing when live baiting. I run a continuation of the wire from the hook and put a maggot clip on the end to lip hook the live bait works a treat no deep hooking even with small baits. I use it for perch zander pike and cats

 

[mick b]

Circle hooks are used by the French commercials who fish catfish from their big rivers.
I dont know the precise method they use to attach the bait but the result is always a fish hooked cleanly in the corner of the mouth.

The important aspect of using circle hooks is firstly the hook must be straight (with no curb) so the point is inline with the hook shank.
This is inorder for the hook to lie along the body of the (head rigged) bait as it is swallowed, if the hook has a curb point it has a tendancy to hook itself into the bait or the fishes throat.

It is also important for the gape (between the hook point and the shank) to be wide enough to go around the jaw of the target species, if it doesnt then there is a possibility of it catching in the web of skin on the jaw hinge and tearing out and damaging the fish.

I don't have the foggiest idea what a kebab rig is, but I have caught many many fish with circle hooks and can assure you that if the bait is bridle rigged with the hook attached with the bridle off the bend, the hook will fold over onto the side of the bait and lay flat as/if it is swallowed.
The same result can be accoplished with the bait rigged at the tail end.
Better results can be acheived if there is a 1-2" gap between the hook and the bait, for small livebaits hooking through the nostrils works as good as any.

The hook-up is achieved by steadily winding in the line as the fish is swimming away from you (which it will usually do when it feels the resistance of the line in the water) and to keep winding until the wieght of the fish is felt at which point the rod is RAISED into its fighting curve.
At no time must a strike be made as this completely defeats the mechanics of the circle hook.

To fish for Pike using a circle attached to a heavy weight aka bolt rig, might acheive a hook-up but the chances of damaging a fish are obviously increased, especially if the hook goes into the stomach of the fish before it meets the resistance of the heavy (bolt) weight.
In my experience I have never had a deep hooked fish survive.

Hope this helps answer some of your questions.

 

[BarryC]

You might like to have a look on this site.
Pike Watch - Home
Not been any action on it for quite some time but theres loads of info on all aspects of single hook piking.
I have been using hair rigged baits, usually half baits using the tagging gun system and size 2 ESP raptors. I find it works fine.

 

[keora]

Yes I totaly agree but I was thinking more in terms of the hair as a means positioning the hook and visualised a smallish bait on the hair tied head down and the size 6 on the end of the trace near the scissors of the tail.

Does anyone feel this would significantly reduce risk of hook contact with gills / rakers which was my (unanswered) question e mailed to the PAC?

Yes, the hair rig you suggest would probably reduce the risk of hook content with gills/rakers - but using a single hook hooked in the tail of the deadbait also reduces the risk.

Since I think it's easier to mount deadbaits on a single hook rather than on a hair rig attached to a single hook, I personally wouldn't use a hair rig.

---------- Post added at 08:15 ---------- Previous post was at 08:09 ----------

Circle hooks are used by the French commercials who fish catfish from their big rivers.
I dont know the precise method they use to attach the bait but the result is always a fish hooked cleanly in the corner of the mouth.

The important aspect of using circle hooks is firstly the hook must be straight (with no curb) so the point is inline with the hook shank.......

It's interesing to read about using circle hooks for pike on the website run by Mike Ladle below:

Mike Ladle's Fishing Diary

 

[mick b]

Hi keora,
Interesting that the link doesnt mention who actually sent him the acticle, although the writer seems to have proved the hook has a better chance of success than his previous methods.

I foresee a great future for circle hooks in UK angling, especially with fish that suffer from repeat captures or those that have a tendency to swallow the bait without giving an indication to the angler.

Jet53
If you send me your address via a PM I will send you some circles to trial.

 

[Wilko]

Just had a bit of a scan on that site, what is the tagging method of hooking that they mention?

 

[BarryC]

Hi wilko
the tagging system uses a price tag gun to hair rig the bait, one of these.
Tagging Gun Price Labeller + 5 Steel Needle + 1000 Kimble Tag Label System Barbs | eBay
The trace is tied using a knotless knot with a small loop close to the bend of the hook. The guns needle is pushed either through the tail root or the eye sockets then through the trace loop. If tail mounting I put a few turns of bait elastic round the root to firm it up a bit.
With a little practice baiting can be done nearly as quick as impaling the bait on the hook. But to make sure I am able to get back out quickly if I miss a fish I allways have a ready baited trace standing by.
Theres a couple of pics on this thread.
Pike Watch - The Tagging System

 

[mick b]

Hi wilko
the tagging system uses a price tag gun to hair rig the bait, one of these.
Tagging Gun Price Labeller + 5 Steel Needle + 1000 Kimble Tag Label System Barbs | eBay
The trace is tied using a knotless knot with a small loop close to the bend of the hook. The guns needle is pushed either through the tail root or the eye sockets then through the trace loop. If tail mounting I put a few turns of bait elastic round the root to firm it up a bit.
With a little practice baiting can be done nearly as quick as impaling the bait on the hook. But to make sure I am able to get back out quickly if I miss a fish I allways have a ready baited trace standing by.
Theres a couple of pics on this thread.
Pike Watch - The Tagging System

So, in order to "get back out quickly" a anit-theft plastic shop tag is inserted into a bait.
I am correct is saying that the design of these tags is to stop their easy removal?

So what about lost baits being eaten by Pike and the tag ending up in their stomach?
Even if its one tag and one Pike, its one to many!

I thought the idea was to preseve the life of Pike not encourage the use of a system that could endanger them

Oh, Im sorry, I was forgetting.....getting back out 'quickly' was the desired aim, not the welfare of the fish mg:

 

[tiinker]

So, in order to "get back out quickly" a anit-theft plastic shop tag is inserted into a bait.
I am correct is saying that the design of these tags is to stop their easy removal?

So what about lost baits being eaten by Pike and the tag ending up in their stomach?
Even if its one tag and one Pike, its one to many!

I thought the idea was to preseve the life of Pike not encourage the use of a system that could endanger them

Oh, Im sorry, I was forgetting.....getting back out 'quickly' was the desired aim, not the welfare of the fish mg:

I use PVA cable ties to aid security in casting large baits they are available from Eddie Turner Tackle and being PVA are totally safe.

 

[mick b]

I use PVA cable ties to aid security in casting large baits they are available from Eddie Turner Tackle and being PVA are totally safe.

Excellent, I will check them out.

Ive used PVA cord and before that twisted up PVA bags for the same thing.

Where there is a will there is a way

 

[BarryC]

So, in order to "get back out quickly" a anit-theft plastic shop tag is inserted into a bait.
I am correct is saying that the design of these tags is to stop their easy removal?

So what about lost baits being eaten by Pike and the tag ending up in their stomach?
Even if its one tag and one Pike, its one to many!

I thought the idea was to preseve the life of Pike not encourage the use of a system that could endanger them

Oh, Im sorry, I was forgetting.....getting back out 'quickly' was the desired aim, not the welfare of the fish mg:

I am pleased that you have concern over the welfare of pike, that being the main reason for my use of single hooks as opposed to what I consider more unsafe methods.
You are not correct in saying the tags designed specifically for their easy removal nor are they anti theft devices but I acknowledge they are tough little blighters which is one of the things that makes them suitable for attatching baits. They are the small tags used to attatch price labels. They are much smaller than the plastic bait flags used by many and considerably smaller than the balsa or foam pop up devises used both of which can be swallowed by a pike. We do of course do our best to minimise the chances of this happening.
Furthermore in the event of a lost bait when using tags the tag allmost allways remains with the hook, I hesitate to use the term allways because that would imply 100% but it is very close.
Most pike anglers will accnowledge the advanteges of being able to present a bait quickly to the same spot in the event of a fish being missed. As long as this is done to the same safe standards as a more leisurely presented bait I see no problem.
Short of not sticking hooks in fish in the first place (which is of course is safest of all) most of us try and minimise any danger to our quarry.
I hope that my explanation of the system has answered your safety queries OK if not I'me afraid we will have to agree to differ in our opinions.

 

[Wilko]

Thanks Barryc, your links made it clear enough for me.

 

[jet53]

Mick
That's a very kind offer mate and I thank you for it but I will track some down myself as I've got to re stock a few bits anyway before I can re start my Pike fishing.

I haven't been piking for a while now, what's the current approach to best trace to use and method of connecting to the hook?

(I used to use 24'' of Drennan multistrand and the little crimps but that was years ago!)

 

[mick b]

You have a pm.

 

[pikepro1]

Interesting thread!

I have been using large singles over conventional twin treble traces for a couple of seasons now and will never go back. I've actually been using Varivas Big Mouth Extra hooks, designed for use in the sea. I do a fair bit of sea angling and have complete faith in these hooks. They could pull the plug out the sea they are that strong.

Haven't noticed any difference in numbers of dropped runs and the majority of hooked fish are in the scissors. None have been deep or difficult to unhook.