Stick floats on winders

dicky123

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Rich12 is spot on the weak link is the hook-link.

I've started doing it because I don't know where I will fish when I leave home. I may need a 6x4s or 10x4s, if they are rigged up then it saves me a lot of time on the bank, maybe half an hour.

Whitty. Forgive me but I think you're wrong. No match guy would take a risk on losing fish, so "that's their lookout" makes it sound unsafe, and it's not at all.

I'd rather set up at home, make sure all my knots are 100% best I can do, and that the hooks are sharp etc. I use a magnifying lamp to tie the hooks too these days, as the old eyes! On the bank I use glasses but in wind or poor light, I'm never 100% sure I get it all right, at home I do. Also I drop small shot every time if I don't take great care, I've even dropped the whole lot off my knee once, a complete box of shot imagine. So for me its just sense.

Mark did you say you mostly use 6s 8s. Then olivetti's for the bigger weights? What about in summer when you need a strung out rig, like on the hemp and tares rig?

Each of use has to do what works for us at our age i guess. But the thicker line on ole rigs makes sense to me. I'm thinking 6' of line would be plenty really on any float I use?

Keep safe guys.
 

trotter2

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I tend to agree my eye sight not brilliant compared to when I was 20.
Your hooklenghs need to be approx 1lb weaker than the rig line and the running line on the reel. The knot you use provided you tie it right will never be weaker than the hook length. You need to get that balance right especially if your mixing brands of line.
 

whitty

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I was an ok match angler,the risk factors outweigh it for me,a few minutes is nothing,the idea of using a line heavier than the reel line to rig up on is poor practice imo(and I know lines can be lighter with a bigger diameter,but can be heavier),also ,how often will you have to remove debris from the loop attachmen and then how much time is wasted getting it off,everything is relative...
 

trotter2

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I was an ok match angler,the risk factors outweigh it for me,a few minutes is nothing,the idea of using a line heavier than the reel line to rig up on is poor practice imo(and I know lines can be lighter with a bigger diameter,but can be heavier),also ,how often will you have to remove debris from the loop attachmen and then how much time is wasted getting it off,everything is relative...
Hi the line you use for the rig is the same as on the reel. Only the hooklenghs are lighter to prevent the rig or reel line snapping if you need to pull for a break. In response to the loop catching on anything I can honestly say it never happens .
 

dicky123

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Agree Trotter. Also unless you try something, you can never know and can only surmise what it might be like? If its good enough for the very top match boys, it cannot be too bad an idea.
I see they do the same thing with feeder line, having a false shock leader (not needed for any distance casting) but using it for strength with the feeder running on it, sometimes just a meter. I mentioned this in another post actually.
 

trotter2

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I first used shock leaders back in the mid 70s for beachcasting it was 60 lb fixed to 12 lb reel line the advantages when distance casting are solid. A book by Kim Wilson was the very first time I read about it for feeder fishing. Published early 90s I think.
 

Mark Wintle

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Mark did you say you mostly use 6s 8s. Then olivetti's for the bigger weights? What about in summer when you need a strung out rig, like on the hemp and tares rig?
My hemp and tare fishing is either with 2 to 3BB wagglers with just a couple of no. 10s down the line or home-made sticks that take from 3 to 5 no. 6 shot so not many shot. The days of shotting up a 7 no. 4 Allerton stick with 30 no. 8s (over-shotted) are long gone. If I fish a bigger stick eg 6 no. 4 John Dean I'd use no. 4s, no. 6s and a couple of no. 8s.

Because I try to use 2lb (sometimes 3lb DH line) main line for my light stick fishing I don't really want another length of 4lb line in the equation.
 

whitty

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Hi the line you use for the rig is the same as on the reel. Only the hooklenghs are lighter to prevent the rig or reel line snapping if you need to pull for a break. In response to the loop catching on anything I can honestly say it never happens .
Sorry mate,the reply was really to Richox,he states different to yourself.
As for losing fish,the risk isnt just about losing fish,but the float and rig,a very time wasting escapade in a match and one that I would have avoided like the plague,if i had any concerns on needing more rigs,another rod would have been set up,identically shotted,ive had balls ups in the last ten minutes of matches above the float,so tied a loop and re-attached it to the main line,personally i dont think the loop helps presentation if there is a wind,it can be hard enough with an unbroken line,as I say its opinion,but pole angling has made match anglers lazy,wanting to turn up 15 minutes before the whistle and tie rigs on,also the general poor standard of match angler(no disrespect to anyone on here)means that more often than not lots of different methods are catered for just in case,most 'good' match anglers know the likely winning,or effective methods on their pegs before setting up,harder for anglers visiting new venues,but ive had names contact me in the past asking about venues I fished regularly. Anyway back to the subject matter,we all do what we prefer,obviously I think you are wrong,it matters not,we could all be dead tomorrow,all your stick float rigs are wasted,lol....
 

Richox12

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Whitty - 0.14mm reel line is, for me, spot on for presentation, line peeling off the spool, casting etc etc. But a bit thin for lots of shot to be pinched on and moved around (i'd use 0.12mm reel line but = same problem). 0.16mm is ideal. Any thicker doesn't work as the No 8 and No 10 shot cannot be put on and kept on - especially when moving them around (no matter which make of lead shot).

The loop attachment is BELOW the float. Attach the rig and move the float above the join. Presentation is perfect.

In all of the years I've been doing it I can honestly say I have never broken at the rig/reel line. The hooklength is far weaker. There is no risk involved.
 

trotter2

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Differences of opinion that's fine.
Stay safe everybody.
 

bracket

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No winders for me. My normal practice after a session on the stick float is to slide the shot and float down to the hook length knot, snip the line above and below the shot and float, then stow it away until next time. Like this:

20200401_134811.jpg

Next time I can select a float and at glance know what the shot loading is. Also even at my advanced age and diminishing dexterity I find it easy to transfer and reuse the shot, possibly with the exception of the last two dropper shot. Pete.
 

trotter2

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Looks like string of 6s two dropper of 8. And a 6 back shot Pete?.
 

whitty

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Must have been a terrible match angler not using winders,funny though my record wouldnt have said so,angling has changed,a lot,anglers carry so much gear they cant walk a field,when i was matching on rivers you often walked three ploughed ones lol,that was with a basket/seat box,todays match anglers turn up with two or three poles,a couple of whips,feeder rods and maybe a float rod,plus the paraphernalia to set all of those up,thats why match fishing on rivers has died off,there arent that many venues with close enough walks,or flat banks for trolleys,jack of all trades,master of none in the main,in my area I know of four top river match anglers,all between 55 and 68,one great angler in his mid twenties,taught by his dad,but still drawn to too many methods....
 

nottskev

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It's just a matter of choice, not a dividing line between good anglers and the rest, nor a sop to gear-heavy anglers setting up the kitchen sink.

Lots of people, regardless of how much gear they have, have been putting float rigs on winders for years. And that includes anglers who are at the top of the game by any standards. They didn't get there by using sub-standard set-ups or losing fish or gear.
 

Mark Wintle

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Must have been a terrible match angler not using winders,funny though my record wouldnt have said so,angling has changed,a lot,anglers carry so much gear they cant walk a field,when i was matching on rivers you often walked three ploughed ones lol,that was with a basket/seat box,todays match anglers turn up with two or three poles,a couple of whips,feeder rods and maybe a float rod,plus the paraphernalia to set all of those up,thats why match fishing on rivers has died off,there arent that many venues with close enough walks,or flat banks for trolleys,jack of all trades,master of none in the main,in my area I know of four top river match anglers,all between 55 and 68,one great angler in his mid twenties,taught by his dad,but still drawn to too many methods....
saying about walks; Clifton Hampden on the Thames, late 80s, had no access further down. When entire length was pegged 3.2 miles to end peg. I drew the flier which was 2miles and as the flier needed a lot of groundbait it was a long walk, with stiles that a trolley wouldn't get over... I remember the walk back where the bridge was so far away you couldn't actually see that far but I was happy having caught enough bream to win.

I can't remember the real stick float aces of the 70s and 80s ever recommending winders; Dean, Allerton, Warren etc. they often just set up one rod though Dave Thomas changed all that. I can remember setting up 6 rods and poles on a Bristol Avon match and taking 2 hours to figure simple pole fishing was the answer.
 

nottskev

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As far as I can remember, the pole winders, such as they were, in the 70's, reflected the general lack of specialist bits and gizmos for what was a pretty new branch of fishing to most. I remember winders that were simple plastic ladders of the sort that elastic was sold on, but I think "proper" winders - with high protective sides that kept floats safe - weren't available, or at least not widely available in any variety of shapes and sizes, til a good time later. What people chose in those days may well reflect what was available rather than a judgement on that method of storing rigs. Once they came into the shops for pole anglers, anglers found other uses for them before long.
 

trotter2

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The first reference in print I came across winders being used in a match situation was in a book published in 1990 Ken Giles & Dave harrel float fishing on rivers. Clive Branson is reputed as being the first to start using the method copied from the continental pole anglers. Interestingly its common to come across Victorian winders with the original floats still attached so this has defiantly gone on for some time.
 

nottskev

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The first reference in print I came across winders being used in a match situation was in a book published in 1990 Ken Giles & Dave harrel float fishing on rivers. Clive Branson is reputed as being the first to start using the method copied from the continental pole anglers. Interestingly its common to come across Victorian winders with the original floats still attached so this has defiantly gone on for some time.
Kim Milsom's 1994 book tells us he stores all his stick rigs on winders, two in each size in case of tangles etc.
 
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