They just kept getting BIGGER!

[mikench]

But Pelamid you have forgotten that GB / The U.K. Is not in Europe and we are not European and have no truck with those species that are Er Er apart from , that is, the Romans, the Danes, Norwegians, Swedes, Saxons, French, celts, and others. We are an island cut off from the rest of the world apart from Er Er when we ruled the world in India, America, Canada, Africa, China, Australia, New Zealand, the West Indies and Scotland, Wales and Ireland. But then we didn't mix, interbreed or have any relations at all. I couldn't say this on any date other than April Fools day and what fools we are. ?

 

[Philip]

You could argue that carp are an invasive species, and it's actually more moral to remove them from rivers - especially if you don't have to kill them.

Actually, I would argue that.

Yes you could argue that but as the origins of wild Carp appear to trace back to the Danube (plenty on Google & elsewhere on the subject) which in all probability was connected to many of the major river systems in continental Europe at some point in history the Carp population can be considerd native to those river systems.

In addition even if you still consider Carp to be invasive then taking them from a river and putting them in a lake next door they would still be invasive so I would counter that your argument does not really make sense in either case.

 

[Badgerale]

Common carp​

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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Binomial name
Scientific classification
Conservation status
Common carp
Vulnerable (IUCN 3.1)[1]
Kingdom:	Animalia
Phylum:	Chordata
Class:	Actinopterygii
Order:	Cypriniformes
Family:	Cyprinidae
Subfamily:	Cyprininae
Genus:	Cyprinus
Species:	C. carpio
Cyprinus carpio Linnaeus, 1758

The common carp or European carp (Cyprinus carpio) is a widespread freshwater fish of eutrophic waters in lakes and large rivers in Europe and Asia.[2][3] The native wild populations are considered vulnerable to extinction by the International Union for Conservation of Nature (IUCN),[1] but the species has also been domesticated and introduced (see aquaculture) into environments worldwide, and is often considered a destructive invasive species,[2] being included in the list of the world's 100 worst invasive species. It gives its name to the carp family, Cyprinidae.


Your argument would be wrong! Wild carp are native to Europe, they have every "moral???" right to exist here as us!

I guess you don't get any arguments, you simply cannot argue with.....what's the saying?

I'm going to take your advice and not argue with you.

 

[Badgerale]

Yes you could argue that but as the origins of wild Carp appear to trace back to the Danube (plenty on Google & elsewhere on the subject) which in all probability was connected to many of the major river systems in continental Europe at some point in history the Carp population can be considerd native to those river systems.

In addition even if you still consider Carp to be invasive then taking them from a river and putting them in a lake next door they would still be invasive so I would counter that your argument does not really make sense in either case.

Even if you think that because the wild carp is native to eastern europe, that means that it is somehow native to western Europe.... which is a very debatable assertation.... that is a very different fish to the domesticated and heavily bred 'king' carp we are talking about.

It's like saying that because wolves are native to a place, that means dogs are.

edit: Anyway, my intention isn't to bring anybody down - those are some fish to be proud of. I'm just pointing out that natural ecosystems are often a zero sum game with limited food and that having lots of carp in a water is to the detriment of native fish like tench.

 

[Philip]

Even if you think that because the wild carp is native to eastern europe, that means that it is somehow native to western Europe.... which is a very debatable assertation.... that is a very different fish to the domesticated and heavily bred 'king' carp we are talking about.

It's like saying that because wolves are native to a place, that means dogs are.

edit: Anyway, my intention isn't to bring anybody down - those are some fish to be proud of. I'm just pointing out that natural ecosystems are often a zero sum game with limited food and that having lots of carp in a water is to the detriment of native fish like tench.

Imo its not a debatable assertion & I suspect a bit of digging will confirm that Carp were present in Major European rivers both East and West post last ice age & that they are native to those river systems.

Actually I also believe its only a matter of time before someone digs up a fossil Carp in the UK and put the "non-indiginous" debate to bed once and for all there too. If you think about it how can less hardy fish such as Dace, Roach and so on somehow have survived from the UK splittling from the continent but Carp not have ? …it just does not make sense and I think its just a case of the evidence not being discovered yet as no one is even looking for it.

I take your point about the various breeding to some of the pot bellied monsters we see today but there is a huge variation in Carp strains anyway...Galician, Aischgrund, Italian, Royale and so on …even the wolf has evolved over time.

Also I know your not trying to put anyone down & I know its sometimes frustrating that people see Carp being stocked in so many UK waters. However I don’t see a comparison between that and what I consider to be for the most part natural Carp in continental rivers.

Its an interesting discussion.

 

[Steve Arnold]

It's a pity the local clubs felt the need to stock this river with a few extra carp. The motive was no doubt with good intentions, but they will breed with the native wild carp and the beauty of the wild creatures will gradually diminish.

But with some stretches having wild carp "poached" I guess there had to be some attempt at restoring the natural balance.

A couple of little carp I caught when I first moved here, pretty but very much "oddballs"! I guess these were recently stocked fish.....

 

[mikench]

A very different carp profile.