Thoughts on groundbaits for river Roach fishing.

[Andydj]

I apologise if this subject has been covered in depth before (likely) but I would be interested in any information people would be happy to share on this subject.
I have taken an interest in trying to catch a big river Roach from the Stour. I will primarily be fishing bread and the stretch is slow and deep ( well known).
My own thoughts are possibly liquidised bread with a bit of gravel in it to get it down though I have heard of punch crumb though never used it. Also there are many proprietary groundbaits out there so it's a case of experimenting and trying them on the fish I guess.
I asked my local tackle dealer for brown crumb and was told he didn't stock it and there were many better groundbaits out there! I plan to get hold of some and mix it with a proprietary groundbait such as Dynamite frenzied hempseed, as recommended by my tackle dealer.

 

[nottskev]

Surprised to hear a tackle dealer dismiss brown crumb. I presume the "better" ones are what he sells? Sensas do a good brown crumb, not cheap but way better than the cheap self-bagged bulk stuff you find in some shops.

 

[Peter Jacobs]

Personally I use Sensas Gros Gardons. It is a good sticky ground bait that gets down in deep water, has good particle size and and comes in dark brown or black.
If cost is an issue then you can eke it out with Sensas crumb.

If you want larger or more particles then add lightly crushed corn flakes, but soak those separately to the rest and add it in at the end.
I also add in some Sensas Vanille when using the larger particles.

Hope this helps.

 

[Andydj]

Surprised to hear a tackle dealer dismiss brown crumb. I presume the "better" ones are what he sells? Sensas do a good brown crumb, not cheap but way better than the cheap self-bagged bulk stuff you find in some shops.

Thank you. It's worth considering that not all brown crumb is likely to be the same.

 

[Andydj]

Personally I use Sensas Gros Gardons. It is a good sticky ground bait that gets down in deep water, has good particle size and and comes in dark brown or black.
If cost is an issue then you can eke it out with Sensas crumb.

If you want larger or more particles then add lightly crushed corn flakes, but soak those separately to the rest and add it in at the end.
I also add in some Sensas Vanille when using the larger particles.

Hope this helps.

Peter thanks. I'll try and track some down. What are the advantages of cornflakes over bits of larger bits of bread crumb? Food value ( less filling) or easier to bind in the groundbait ( at a guess).

 

[nottskev]

A local shop - Matchman Supplies, West Bridgford - will send you 6 bags of Sensas Brown crumb for £23 inc delivery. Their stock and service are second to none.

 

[Andydj]

A local shop - Matchman Supplies, West Bridgford - will send you 6 bags of Sensas Brown crumb for £23 inc delivery. Their stock and service are second to none.

Thank you.

 

[Peter Jacobs]

The crushed corn flakes add to the feed content of the mix but use sparingly. When we’ll soaked the larger pieces do not float the way that bread pieces do and are easier to mix.

I think the advent of pellet feeds and mixes have largely been responsible for the loss of the art (or science?) of ground bait.

I fished for a Sensas sponsored match team in Norway for five years so we got trips around their facilities in France each year. Many of Sensas mixes were the brainchild of Jean Desque, ‘the master’

 

[Andydj]

The crushed corn flakes add to the feed content of the mix but use sparingly. When we’ll soaked the larger pieces do not float the way that bread pieces do and are easier to mix.

I think the advent of pellet feeds and mixes have largely been responsible for the loss of the art (or science?) of ground bait.

I fished for a Sensas sponsored match team in Norway for five years so we got trips around their facilities in France each year. Many of Sensas mixes were the brainchild of Jean Desque, ‘the master’

Valuable info. Thanks Peter. Slightly changing the subject, I once watched Ivan Marks put a ball of brown crumb and caster right across and onto the grass at Longleat middle lake just to demonstrate how to prepare it without it breaking up in flight. No mean task with just breadcrumbs. No pellet etc at that time. Yes those old ways. We must not lose them.

 

[The bad one]

2 to 1 and catty it 70 yards....... not a problem!
That's 2 brown 1 white.

 

[Peter Jacobs]

If you want to get more distance to the balls if groundbait then make the balls squeezed harder and then wet your hands and put a shim of water in the outside. Like that you can catapult them much further, the only proviso being it takes longer to break down like that once in the water.

 

[Mark Wintle]

As someone who actually fishes the Stour regularly then I recommend Sensas Gros Gardon mixed 50:50 with brown crumb, no need for anything else. Be aware there are now several sorts of Gros Gardons; you want the standard not the fine or the black (noire) as the last two attract too many small fish.

On shallower parts (up to 6ft) of the upper Stour where the flow is steady I do use liquidised bread, especially if using flake and hoping for a mix of roach and chub. Liquidised is also the way to go on the moving feeder (tiny open-end feeders using flake on the hook).

See my videos on YouTube; lots on roach fishing the Stour.

Conditions have to be right on the Stour for a decnt chance of finding the better ones, and location - right swim, right day, right part of swim etc. - is also important.

 

[Andydj]

2 to 1 and catty it 70 yards....... not a problem!
That's 2 brown 1 white.

Thank you. I'd forgotten things like that Good info!

 

[Andydj]

If you want to get more distance to the balls if groundbait then make the balls squeezed harder and then wet your hands and put a shim of water in the outside. Like that you can catapult them much further, the only proviso being it takes longer to break down like that once in the water.

Oh yes I sort of remember that now! Thanks Peter.

 

[Andydj]

As someone who actually fishes the Stour regularly then I recommend Sensas Gros Gardon mixed 50:50 with brown crumb, no need for anything else. Be aware there are now several sorts of Gros Gardons; you want the standard not the fine or the black (noire) as the last two attract too many small fish.

On shallower parts (up to 6ft) of the upper Stour where the flow is steady I do use liquidised bread, especially if using flake and hoping for a mix of roach and chub. Liquidised is also the way to go on the moving feeder (tiny open-end feeders using flake on the hook).

See my videos on YouTube; lots on roach fishing the Stour.

Conditions have to be right on the Stour for a decnt chance of finding the better ones, and location - right swim, right day, right part of swim etc. - is also important.

Hi Mark. Yes I've seen your videos. Very interesting. Over the years I've spent most of my time on the Stour fishing for Pike, Chub and Barbel but never Roach so it's very helpful to see how you approach it. I went to Canford opposite the boathouse on Saturday. It was very cold and I caught minnows by the plenty on maggot and a few very small fish on bread punch. It's difficult to say why I faired so poorly. Too cold, not good enough presentation ( I really wanted to trot but feeder may have been better) or wrong swim! Anyway next time I'll try a different area. All the spots I used to fish for Pike further up that side were totally overgrown! I'll take another look at your video on the feeder.

 

[The bad one]

As an old Bream Man from the 60s 70s 80s and I guess 90s is old these days. But the 60s 70s you had no binders, flavours back then. Just the two crumb based groundbait, so you learnt how to make the groundbait stick together back then, if you wanted to get at the fish that patrolled between 50 - 70 yards. Once learnt, you never forget how to make it.

 

[Andydj]

As an old Bream Man from the 60s 70s 80s and I guess 90s is old these days. But the 60s 70s you had no binders, flavours back then. Just the two crumb based groundbait, so you learnt how to make the groundbait stick together back then, if you wanted to get at the fish that patrolled between 50 - 70 yards. Once learnt, you never forget how to make it.

Yes I'm sure. It's a gap in my fairly broad angling experience I don't mind admitting.

 

[Mark Wintle]

Hi Mark. Yes I've seen your videos. Very interesting. Over the years I've spent most of my time on the Stour fishing for Pike, Chub and Barbel but never Roach so it's very helpful to see how you approach it. I went to Canford opposite the boathouse on Saturday. It was very cold and I caught minnows by the plenty on maggot and a few very small fish on bread punch. It's difficult to say why I faired so poorly. Too cold, not good enough presentation ( I really wanted to trot but feeder may have been better) or wrong swim! Anyway next time I'll try a different area. All the spots I used to fish for Pike further up that side were totally overgrown! I'll take another look at your video on the feeder.

Wrong conditions; you need more flow and colour in the river, and for it to be a lot warmer.

 

[Andydj]

Just nice to be out but yes asking a bit much!

 

[@Clive]

Yes I'm sure. It's a gap in my fairly broad angling experience I don't mind admitting.

If you want or need sticky groundbait all you need to do is add coa-coa powder or corn flour and make the mix with water straight from the kettle. Stir it in well and leave to cool, preferrably overnight. That allows the grain in the groundbait to swell. The starch in the coa-coa powder or corn flour will make everything sticky like a method mix.

To take this to the extreme simmer ground maize in just enough water to cover it then when it is softened add some maize groundbait and stir it all in to a thick porridge consistency. Keep stirring every 10 minutes and after it has cooled enough to handle form some balls and leave them overnight. By morning you will have solid, dry balls that will stand a 70 metre catapult still intact, drop to the bottom intact and slowly dissolve.