We Know Nowt!

[Mark St Jefferson]

'and coming from aquatic sources'

Duh!!! they would hardly come from any other source now would they?

That was meant to say, coming from aqautic retail sources'

 

[Simon Webster]

I think I probably agree with Kevin Perkins. There is much we will never know about fish behaviour, food preferences, and how quickly they forget unpleasant experiences, but I doubt whether a single one would make them averse to a particualar bait. One thought that has been aired many many times is that on reasonably heavily fished waters, where not a great variety of bait is being put in, is that the fish are quite likely to associate a particular set of odours with a good feed, or at least a nutritionally useful item. Just being caught once on such a bait is probably not as much an aversive stimulus as we would like to believe, because we would colour our own experiences on such an event- fish aren't that intelligent. Probably the answer is a little bit more complex. Successful anglers usually think long and hard about presentation, and reading the water- being at the right place at the right time. So, if they all use their particualar favourite, whatever, BFM, or brightly coloured over-flavoured fluoro baits, they will be successful, merely because they have placed baits, with correct presentation, where the fish are, and are feeding!
Several years ago, I tried to answer one question about bait attrractivenes. Using about 40 naive little miror carp (Courtesy of Roger Thompson, Llyn y Gors). The tank (which was a large one- about 2000l, was designed so that shoaling effects could be minimised, by providing some heterogeneity by way of plenty of cover, and artificial weed beds. Really, not much came out of this (an undergraduate student did the work). Basically, the carp learnt to associate the white feeding trays containing the micro boilies with food- we had to get the uneaten food back, via the trays. But the Carp associated these with food within a few days! Perhaps prebaiting is a little ignored here, although using a large visual stimulus, such as a white plastic feeding tray would probably be frowned upon on most waters we fish!!! The only really negative effects were that the fish really didnt like milk protein baits (HiNuVal) flavoured with pineapple, although neutral unflavoured baits were fine. Similarly, Krystons feeding trigger (I've forgotten what it was called) was a distinct turn off, as far as I can remember! Apart from that, all other baits, despite their colour, were taken with gusto, and of course, the fishmeal baits were the best. Oh well, I suppose its just down to using a bait that you are confident with, which an army of field testers, who are much beter anglers that you or I, have proven! Doesn't answer much though.To paraphrase the guy on the "Fast Show" "This year I will be mostly using Nutrabaits Trigga" and a touch of Hi Nu Val , with their Trigga label, and a touch or so of betaine, GLM,and cranberry + peach, dyed brown- a boring bait I know, but its worked just as well as others for me, and is roller friendly! Next, I'll have to find the fish, and not disturb them! Simon.

 

[Andy Nellist]

The nature of the water and the materials present in the bottom material of the lake/river can have a dramatic effect on the way a bait smells/tastes.

The availability of natural food within a water will also often lead to the fish having preferences for certain food types.

On hungry waters where there is high stock density and limited quantities of natural food, fish will usually be more accomodating than on waters where the stock density is low and the availability of natural food high.

While fishing the latter type of water I have found that at optimum feeding times artificial flavours can enhance catches but most of the time the actually reduce catch rates.

On the latter type of water boillies can be one of the least effective baits and artificial flavours and unusual colours simply reduce the effectiveness of a bait.

Archie Braddock recommended "glugged" maggots ages ago. At the time I was heading in the opposite direction. That summer using no flavours at all I caught more tench from the water I was fishing than anyone else despite being very limited as to the amount of time I could fish.

The message is simple, don't follow the latest bait (or indeed rig) trends, do your homework and reap the rewards.

 

[Phil Hatton]

Having read with interest the preceding contributions I thought I'd add my 'two bobs worth'.Of all the areas touched on in this debate I think that one of the most important has actually not been mentioned at all.(Did that make sense ? ) Anyway,what I'd like to bring up is the subject of confidence.Not with regards to the fish,irrespective of species,but with regards to the angler.Could it not be that when we are using a bait and /or technique that we are very confident about we actually fish 'better'.Like most of us I like to experiment but I have to admit that quite often if the result is not what I expect then I revert to something tried and true.With the vast amount of choice available in baits and rigs I'm thinking that the governing factor may be how much faith you have in what you are doing.If you read the various articles by the experts then one thing comes across quite clearly,namely THEY ALL WORK.All the rigs and baits produce results,to me the common factor is that the pioneers of each new variation have confidence,BECAUSE they came up with them.Of course I could be talking complete ##### , what do you think?


ps Welcome back Wendy.

 

[Ian Burton]

Im my experience, fish are dumb. However, not that dumb. I think it is definate that their sence of self preservation is keen. Recently, whilst fishing for large bream on my local canal, using a swimfeeder about 12 inches from a stand of reeds, I hooked what felt like a very big fish. My line moved away from the reeds, which I thought odd as surely any hooked fish would head for cover to try to escape, however, my 5lb mainline broke as the fish took me up a drainage pipe. I'm pretty sure that the fish had used this method of escape before. After several more hours with no bites, I reverted to (as Phil states above) my tried and tested method of pole and single red maggot. I had 15 fish in an hour. I thhen went back to my ledger rod and again hokked a big fish. This time I landed it sucessfully to find, my other hook in it's mouth. It turned out to be an 8lb Common Carp. Not bad, but proof that fish are not so smart after all.

 

[Ian Clark]

Regarding carp fishing. The only people who make use confused are the manufactorers who earn millions each year bringing out new and expensive gadgets that magazines say are necessary for us to catch bigger and better fish. The most important thing is the last six inches of your line, hook and bait and where it is. Not so confusing when you think of it this way.

 

[Brian Lewis]

Hi! I'm new to the website and have just read Graham's article with interest.

Are we not over complicating the whole subject of fishing which, after all, is supposed to be (I think)a pleasant, relaxing and not mind boggling hobby?

I find myself asking a few questions. Did the anglers of bygone years really catch less fish than anglers today? Have fish over the years really developed a greater intelligence or instinct for survival? Was angling more enjoyable when we weren't all wracking our brains trying to develop the "best" method,rig, boillie or tackle? Are we not trying to be too "clever" for our own good?

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not a traditionalist, but it seems to me that years ago anglers ejoyed the hobby as much (if not more!) and probably caught as many fish, using centre pin reels, split cane rods and simple tactics using a limited choice of baits. Respected anglers like **** Walker never had to worry about the size and flavour of his boillies!

Is it not simply a matter of locating a swim that looks promising, getting your chosen bait in there (whatever it is!) and seeing what happens? It's what I do and I think I'm reasonably successful. It's also what I encourage my 11 year old son to do.

Have I missed the point?

 

[GrahamM]

Brian, welcome to FISHINGmagic. Hope you enjoy it as much as most of us do.

The bottom line of this thread (if you'll pardon the pun) is that is doesn't really matter a damn what we fish for and how we fish, providing we enjoy it.

I find that the more experience I gain in fishing the less important it becomes to be striving to break a PB or trying to achieve some other target. Nowadays I'm just content to be out on the bank and doing what I love best.

Which doesn't mean I don't have targets and don't want a new PB, just that my sense of true values is keener and such targets are seen for what they really are: just another aspect of a wonderful boy's adventure that has given me pleasure for well over 50 years.