which hangers/indicators

Ian, when I fish super tight lines I'm looking for the rig to spring back so the indicator will drop back. The indicator is mainly used to keep the line tight during a take, hence the Quiverlocks. Occassionally, usually when a small fish is hooked, the indicator twitches but the Delks always let me know what's going on.

I'm not trying to read a bite in the traditional way when using this method.

I've found the hookup rate to be very good indeed, although that does depend on the nature of the lakebed.

I fish differently for other species, including slack lines and lightweight bobbins. I've been fishing that way for perch over the weekend, for instance.
 

Ian Gemson

Well-known member
Matt what happen if the fish trys to swim away from you against the tightness of the line and the compression of the quiverlocks ?. Not a lot I bet carp normally would go mad normally and start sprinting in all directions bream and roach on the whole tend to just sit and shake their heads in this situation IMHO i would use slacker lines to ensure a better indication . Just for your imformation I have always used Delkims myself so I am fully aware of their potential for indiating the most sensative of bites.

Tight Lines (Please excuse the pun)
 
Bigger roach and bream tend to swim in a direction that allows the rig to drop back. On occasion they'll just sit there and the bobbin with simply twitch. That's why I love the Delks. My old alarms would rarely indicate anything at all.

Tench and carp usually tear off, taking line off the clutch.

I've tried the slacker line approach, with a drop on the hangersand I found I missed loads of bites. It was thanks to a good mate, Tim Ridge, that I made a breakthrough.

I'd been fishing helicoptor rigs with short hooklinks for tench and had been getting what I thought were liners. It was a frustrating day as I knew fish were in the swim but I hadn't caught anything. I rang Tim, asking for advice and he told me to tighten my lines. He told me to get them so tight they were on the verge of springing back.

I landed three tench from the last three indications of the day.

It's something I've done loads of testing with over the last five years or so and I'm really happy and confident in how it works for me. I think I once managed thirty something tench without missing a bite or losing a fish, from fairly difficult venues. It's also been especially good when roach fishing on venues where an angler may hope for one or two bites in a day at best.

I wouldn't fish for carp like that as I've seen the tight line spook the hell out of them. It's not the greatest of methods in serious weed either, but it's a technique I'm very happy to have in my armoury.

I agree that slacker lines can give better indication, but I've found it can effect my hookup ratio.
 

Ian Gemson

Well-known member
Hi matt the problem with heilcopter rigs is the the fish can swim towards you this means you have to have enough bobbin weight to indicat this type of bite and a slack line approach with helicopters just does not work.

The best rig for bite indication is a running rig in what ever style you prefer. Like these

http://smartcarping.blogspot.com/2009/03/how-to-set-up-side-clip-running-rig.html

http://smartcarping.blogspot.com/2008/01/how-to-set-up-running-rig.html

This way what ever direction the fish run in the bobbin will always lift.

Your tight line rigs are effectivly a bolt rid that all.
 
Morning Ian,

I would completely agree if we were talking about carp.

With roach and tench in particular (and to a lesser extent, bream), I've found a short hooklink of 1" (that's not mistyped) gives me the hookup ratio I'm after. A hooklink that short just doesn't work with running rigs (tangles, masked hook etc). I've found that I had a problem with in-line rigs where the hooklink would break far too often. I've found helicoptor rigs to work best for me.
 

NIGE K

Well-known member
hi matt can i ask a quick question please,the one inch hooklength is that fished with a popup bait and how far away from the leaddo you have it set.

cheers nige
 
Hi Nige,

With roach it's usual single or double maggot on a size 16 or 18 B611. Hooklink would be 3lb 6oz Reeflow Powerline. I find I require a little finese to get pickups from roach (althought this is certainly not always the case).

With tench, I use size 14 Drennan Barbel hooks, 10lb fluorocarbon hooklink (for stiffness), and 2 artificial casters. I mount these mini d-rig style. The casters are attched to a tiny rig ring which runs on the 'd'.

I experiment with the distance between the feeder (usually 2oz open ended) and and the hook. Normally I'll start with around 8". If I think the fish are having it I'll move the hook nearer to hopefully pick up a bite sooner.
 

kasman

New member
correct me if iam wrong but shouldn't it make no difference what type of swinger/bobbin or Quiverlock system you have when your using a bolt rig ! as the 1st bit of resistance the fish feels is the bolt rig itself.... i would have thought that the type of bobbin/hanger or indication system you use would only come into effect when using a running rig or the patternoser rigs ect...
 
Kasman, a sprung or heavy hanger pulls the line tight. I want it as tight as it will go without dislodging the feeder (usually 2oz).

This helps with a helicopter rig for roach or tench as the fish hook themselves against the feeder (or lead) and/or the tight line.

I've found I miss bites, or have fish drop off, if I fish slacker lines with this rig.

For me, the hanger setup is all part of the rig.

This isn't the be-all and end-all rig for all types of fish and venues but it's pretty standard on big roach stillwaters.
 

Clive Moore 2

New member
for all my carping i use small nash ballbuster bobbins. as for it being part of the rig in a way, i can see that but for carp i think its less important. i will often use them led on the floor when slacklining with loads of slack line.....a carp usually soon makes a big noise on the alarm!!!!
 

Ian Gemson

Well-known member
Hi Matt do you not think a 2 oz lead set up helicopter style used in conjunction with a size18 B611 is not wildly over kill ?. I understand you need to scale down your end tackle due to the type of fish you are trying to catch but it does sound a little on the extreme side to me IMHO.
 
Hi Ian,

I've found 2oz to be about right. It allows me to reach the distances I might need to fish at. It's not so heavy that it pulls the fish off and yet it seems to give about the best hook up ratio. This is couple with 1lb tc rods (for roach fishing).

1oz feeders, for instance, don't allow me to get the line as tight as I need it.

I'll only use this setup on hard waters where I really don't want to miss a bite. It's not a rig I'd employ in weed or close in.

This winter I've fished waters that where bites are more forthcoming and I've fished either the waggler or quivertip, because it's more fun!

Good discussion BTW.
 

Ian Gemson

Well-known member
Hi Matt

As long as you are not harming the fish, fully adhearing to the local rules and catching fish and enjoying yourself well it cant be that wrong. The thing with rigs that people hav evolvedthemselves to overcome a specific set of curcumstances it take a lot of discussion to understand why and how they got to where they are with their rig mechainics.

Tight Lines
 
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