Has barbel tackle gone to far?

[flightliner]

Sorry but I cannot agree with that, the British record was caught in 2006 with many more near that weight some of which have been reported some have not.

I know of a river record from a river up north that would have beaten the existing record by a large margin had the angler wanted to claim it. I knew the angler and saw the photographs of the fish which incidentally was caught on 30lb braid reel line.

I believe that we are yet to see the best of the Tidal Trent so much of it never sees an angler.

Graham, interesting post, are you saying the record not claimed was for the northern river or the "national" one ?.
Speaking of the tidal I was shown a pik of a massive barbel taken not long ago, it wasnt reported either----- it's getting there !.

 

[thecrow]

Graham, interesting post, are you saying the record not claimed was for the northern river or the "national" one ?.
Speaking of the tidal I was shown a pik of a massive barbel taken not long ago, it wasnt reported either----- it's getting there !.

The one I posted about was a river one I will PM you.

The tidal I believe has more than just a barbell record in it I reckon the zander record is swimming about in it somewhere.

 

[john step]

The one I posted about was a river one I will PM you.

The tidal I believe has more than just a barbell record in it I reckon the zander record is swimming about in it somewhere.

Yup! Absolutely awesome river. As a nerdy point, I read somewhere that it and its tributaries actually drains 20% of England's land.

 

[flightliner]

Six million gallons an hour go over cromwell wier at normal summer levels.
plus first same sex marriage in england three hundred years or so ago in a church (normanton?) by the side of the tidal reaches.

 

[theartist]

Six million gallons an hour go over cromwell wier at normal summer levels.
plus first same sex marriage in england three hundred years or so ago in a church (normanton?) by the side of the tidal reaches.

The winner of the most interesting stat award follows it up with an entry for the most random fact award

 

[thecrow]

In the past, the course of the River Trent was used to mark the boundary between the North and the South of England. I never knew I lived in the south

 

[108831]

That's a bit of a red herring right there. A test curve is a measure of how much weight it takes to bend a rod through ninety degrees. It gives no indication of how much pressure can be applied by that rod. Rods do not get to their test curve and suddenly do no more. It's also true that, in some situations, you can apply more pressure with lower test curve rods.

Hardly scientific, but it's a reasonable demonstration of why test curves alone are a bit of a waste of time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cp6b_AhxVGI

Sam,put a decent six pound line(not sensor:wh),with a 1.75lb tc rod(even a 2lb plus one)and build up slowly to a 90 degree bend,you would be hard pushed to break it,let's not forget such a rod would be considered a 'carp' rod years ago,i'm not saying you can't be 'broken' playing a fish on ten pound line,but that is usually a case of human error,if fish are played with no more,no less than a 90 deg bend,breakages are unlikely on good 10lb bs line,but that's fishing for you,we're only human and we all get caught out occasionally.:w

 

[thecrow]

I think that one thing that needs to be remembered with mono or braid is that it is only as strong as the weakest bit of it, any nick or scrape on it will weaken it.

 

[108831]

Dead right,which is why abrasion resistance is critical in barbel fishing in particular and why we use heavier than six pound line as a norm,that being said,it isn't the rod's test curve breaking the line,but general wear and tear,rivers like the Trent,Wye,Ribble,Teme and Severn have testing rocks and boulders that a testing in the extreme and i've fished four of the five mentioned,rivers like the Stour,H.Avon,Gt.Ouse etc have extreme weed issues,pokers,ranunculus,ribbon weed during summer months,causes a different line wearing issue in a barbel situation,is 15lb line needed for barbel,not for me,that's for beach fishing imo...

 

[mickb]

Really enjoyed reading all the comments given in this thread. Never expected it to be so long. It's great to know that the majority of people haven't been using silly tackle for barbel and there is still sanity fishing for our favourite species. I believe thecrow saying that a record hasnt been claimed on a northern river. I think this may be the case for lots of rivers. Most of us aren't after some kind of reward or trophy for the biggest fish. Neither do we want hoards of glory seeking fishermen on the stretch after the record. We fish for barbel for the enjoyment. I know for sure that if I were lucky enough to catch a river record I wouldn't want to hold the fish in a net till some official arrived. Knowing that I've caught it is good enough for me. Nobody else needs to know. I think this is the case for most anglers. There are definitely bigger fish out there that haven't been claimed as records.

 

[108831]

Wouldn't claim any record,i've been called selfish for saying so,because that is denying angling history,i'd rather look at it as not allowing too much pressure on a venue and it's inhabitants...

 

[tigger]

Sam,put a decent six pound line(not sensor:wh),

Err, why not sensor

 

[sam vimes]

Sam,put a decent six pound line(not sensor:wh),with a 1.75lb tc rod(even a 2lb plus one)and build up slowly to a 90 degree bend,you would be hard pushed to break it,let's not forget such a rod would be considered a 'carp' rod years ago,i'm not saying you can't be 'broken' playing a fish on ten pound line,but that is usually a case of human error,if fish are played with no more,no less than a 90 deg bend,breakages are unlikely on good 10lb bs line,but that's fishing for you,we're only human and we all get caught out occasionally.:w

I'm at a bit of a loss as to why you've aimed this at me. I'm well aware of just what six pound mono can be capable of. I'm also aware of its limitations. As I've said before, I always fish as light as I think is reasonable for the venue, target species, conditions and tactics being employed. The difference in me is that I won't get precious about the heavier end of the spectrum when necessary. I know that the heavy barbel kit seems outrageous to many. I would probably have felt the same way myself at one point. However, after fishing a couple of specific spots in good company, and being utterly unable to match their results with lighter gear (I was schooled on both occasions. I had my arsed handed to me), I learned a valuable lesson. I no longer scoff at the heavy end of the spectrum. I don't assume anything on the basis of a test curve rating. I know that I can't drag barbel out on my heavy gear and I know that the lads that opened my eyes don't either.

Will I be taking the big guns to my local rivers? No, not unless there's ten foot plus of floodwater. Would I take them to the Great Ouse, Hampshire Avon etc? No, total overkill. If I end up on a big river like the Trent, Thames or Severn, I'll use them without hesitation if necessary. One thing is for sure, I won't enjoy the fish I might catch with them any less.

 

[108831]

Err, why not sensor

Sorry tigger,only because I knew some adore it,everyone's choice is down to preference.

Many anglers fish rivers like the Trent,with nothing other than than heavy rods,often beyond requirement,i'm very glad to say that if fishing for barbel was related to 5-6oz plus leads or feeders,I wouldn't be doing it,because it isn't as enjoyable,again my opinion,finding somewhere where it can be fished in a more pleasant way is mine,i'd stick to roach fishing,nothing wrong with a bit of finesse eh?

 

[benny samways]

Sam,put a decent six pound line(not sensor:wh),with a 1.75lb tc rod(even a 2lb plus one)and build up slowly to a 90 degree bend,you would be hard pushed to break it,let's not forget such a rod would be considered a 'carp' rod years ago,i'm not saying you can't be 'broken' playing a fish on ten pound line,but that is usually a case of human error,if fish are played with no more,no less than a 90 deg bend,breakages are unlikely on good 10lb bs line,but that's fishing for you,we're only human and we all get caught out occasionally.:w

I agree with this but theres a but.

Building up slowly to your rods test curve is one thing but it is another thing entirely when a fish rips off at a million gazillion miles per hour and flat rods you in a split second (!) Which can easily happen with a big barbel on a small narrow stream. Even a 4lb barbel can smash 10lb line if you are fishing a tight clutch and the rod doesnt get chance to reach its battle curve.

Stef Horak (always advocated 12 lb line for barbelling in CAT, 15lb for cod fishing as he put it)etc are able to fish off a tight clutch because they use 12lb line which has enough cushioning/stretch in it to allow the rod to compress in to its full battle curve in every scenario (snaggy swims, hit and hold).

I will use 8lb line straight through for barbel wherever i do not think i will need to absolutely stop a barbel, ie where you can let them run.

If i want to stop the fish then imo you need to be fishing at your rods maximum line rating, thus allowing you to use the rods full power without fear of breaking your line (your rod will break before the line). Just my opinion and all based on ledgering on the gt ouse.

 

[108831]

The logic of having to stop a fish dead is obviously where heavy line is the safest option,however I refuse to fish too close to snags,got to say though a 4lb fish should be struggling to break 10lbs bs...

 

[mickb]

A 4lb barbel has absolutely no chance of breaking a true 10 lb line breaking strain. No chance whatsoever. If it does then it's down to bad knots or cut offs against rocks.

 

[sam vimes]

The logic of having to stop a fish dead is obviously where heavy line is the safest option,however I refuse to fish too close to snags,got to say though a 4lb fish should be struggling to break 10lbs bs...

I won't knowingly fish to snags either. However, on the rivers I'm likely to fish, unless I'm very familiar with the peg, I'll err on the side of caution. I can rarely see into the murky depths and snags have a nasty habit of shifting from time to time. Not all of us are fishing perfectly clear chalk streams which we can look into to see the snags, weed and fish. If I can see the bottom, I'm more likely to see bedrock shelves and dirty great rocks anyway. Fishing heavier isn't just about hook and hold.

 

[tigger]

Using line that matches up and works with the rod makes a huge difference. I've used match/float rods combined with 6lb mono fished to the hook 14's animal or superspade hook, hit and held barbel and given no line whatsoever lots of times. The fish have been as large as 10lb's in weight and at no point did it feel like the line would snap. I did wonder about the rods and hook holds though! The rods bent in harmony with the stretch of the line and acted like one big elastic which eventually sapped the energy out of the fish enabling me to play them as normal once i'd gained some line. In case your wondering what rods I used....drennan 12ft 9inch im8, normark avenger, drennan acolyte, hardy 11ft avon. The float rods are all rated to 6lb plus and the avon to 12lb. This may sound daft but I did the same thing with heavier rods, a hardy stepped up avon and a harrison chimera 1.75 barbel/specimen rod and again I used 6lb line straight through and I did get broken off sometimes which made it even more obvious that the rods had a big part to play.
Strangely enough the heavier rods took on pretty much just as serious a looking hoop as the match rods which isn't what I would have expected!
So, it seems you can get away with lighter lines and smaller hooks up to a point and in the right conditions, obviously larger fish would have been too much for the set up but it is surprising how difficultit is for a fish to snap lighter lines if the right rod is used.

There's no way a 4lb fish could break 10lb line unless it had a set of teeth or scissors to cut it with.

 

[thecrow]

A 4lb barbel has absolutely no chance of breaking a true 10 lb line breaking strain. No chance whatsoever. If it does then it's down to bad knots or cut offs against rocks.

Unless an angler is constantly checking the line they are using for nicks and scrapes it is entirely possible for a 4lb barbel to break what the angler thinks is 10lbs line but is in fact because of those nicks and scrapes a lot weaker, the lighter the line being used the more that damage to the line will have affected it....... 15lb line with damage could be reduced by say 30% (and nobody has any way of knowing as the damage will be different each time) apply that 30% to 15lb and it becomes 10.5 at its weakest point, apply the same 30% reduction to 6lb and it becomes 4.2lbs which depending on circumstances could be far to light to be targeting barbel with.

---------- Post added at 10:56 ---------- Previous post was at 10:54 ----------

Using line that matches up and works with the rod makes a huge difference. I've used match/float rods combined with 6lb mono fished to the hook 14's animal or superspade hook, hit and held barbel and given no line whatsoever lots of times. The fish have been as large as 10lb's in weight and at no point did it feel like the line would snap.

But don't you replace your line after each session Ian almost guaranteeing that it is free from damage at least at the start of your session.