Only an opinion, but mine is that there are more people here who see things more holistically and don’t just jump to the most simplistic of conclusions.
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- Thread starter Kirsty Hewitt
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Only an opinion, but mine is that there are more people here who see things more holistically and don’t just jump to the most simplistic of conclusions.
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I wasn't criticising the tackle content on other forums, just the lack of good fishery information. When I moved to Lincolnshire I could hardly find out anything about all the wonderful places there are to fish here. Even some of the Fisheries-in-Your-Area style websites didn't say very much, or were well out of date as to what was actually going on. One even showed a photo of a fishery car park! (As opposed to an interesting shot to make you want to go there!) Many club websites around here don't tell you anything either, so you have to take a punt at what bait you might need, or what tackle to take along. Due to this, it doesn't surprise me that some of the clubs are struggling for members. I meet quite a few anglers who have read my exploits on local venues and it pleases me greatly to see them there, enjoying catching plenty of fish.
Kevin Perkins
Well-known member
I have resisted in replying to the OP, but I do have a few thoughts on the subject.
FIrstly, are FM members now being asked to subsdise the Site so that they can continue to retain the professional writers? (I don't remember FM members being asked if they wanted profesional writers in the first place) What has happened to bring about this apparent shortfall in funding, and does it apply to Fish and Fly, or is FM run on a stand-alone basis?
Are the professionals on a retained contract basis, or are they paid per article? (If the FM business plan is paying writers by the article then Mark Wintle and I are due a hefty rebate on the 500 unpaid articles we submitted in the past..!)
And having this standard of professional content probably intimidates 'ordinary' members from offering articles of their own for fear of them not being up to this high standard. Certainly, if I have any ramblings to put up on the site, I do so as a Forum post, rather than offer it up as an article.
The site now appears to be run on a more corporate basis, making it appear remote and dare I say slighlty aloof. We know that times move on, and what we have now is not the FM of old. But having a figurehead editor did at least give the members a rallying point, albeit some times to rally behind, some times to rally against..
And yes, were were like naughty schoolboys at times, but there was a cameraderie where 'we' would take editors of the Angling Press to task, we would organise 'Fish-Ins that were frequently over-subscribed. We had well-respected, highly experienced anglers who wrote for the Angling Press but also posted articles on FM (for free)
So after all of that, I will state that I am opposed to any form of fee, and if that means we loose the professional writers, then sadly, so be it.
I am sure if even modest inducements were offered, many on here would gladly submit well written pieces, and FM could retern to being a more inclusive site.
FIrstly, are FM members now being asked to subsdise the Site so that they can continue to retain the professional writers? (I don't remember FM members being asked if they wanted profesional writers in the first place) What has happened to bring about this apparent shortfall in funding, and does it apply to Fish and Fly, or is FM run on a stand-alone basis?
Are the professionals on a retained contract basis, or are they paid per article? (If the FM business plan is paying writers by the article then Mark Wintle and I are due a hefty rebate on the 500 unpaid articles we submitted in the past..!)
And having this standard of professional content probably intimidates 'ordinary' members from offering articles of their own for fear of them not being up to this high standard. Certainly, if I have any ramblings to put up on the site, I do so as a Forum post, rather than offer it up as an article.
The site now appears to be run on a more corporate basis, making it appear remote and dare I say slighlty aloof. We know that times move on, and what we have now is not the FM of old. But having a figurehead editor did at least give the members a rallying point, albeit some times to rally behind, some times to rally against..
And yes, were were like naughty schoolboys at times, but there was a cameraderie where 'we' would take editors of the Angling Press to task, we would organise 'Fish-Ins that were frequently over-subscribed. We had well-respected, highly experienced anglers who wrote for the Angling Press but also posted articles on FM (for free)
So after all of that, I will state that I am opposed to any form of fee, and if that means we loose the professional writers, then sadly, so be it.
I am sure if even modest inducements were offered, many on here would gladly submit well written pieces, and FM could retern to being a more inclusive site.
To be fair to Kirsty and the current FM team I think it has improved since they took over the running. I dont think anyone can really say they have not tried to make it better.
I just think the ship needs some tweaks to set it on the best path...what that path actually is I dont think anyone is 100% sure so we all throw our ideas in & hopefully it can help them to sort it out.
What I would say is that two recurring themes that a number of people have mentioned and I think constantly get overlooked is that a small incentive to encourage members to submit material and trying to get the name anglers to be more active on the forum would make a big difference. Perhaps not a return to the Marsden "good old days" but at least a change in that sort of direction.
Ok neither of those ideas is "free" with zero expenditure but we are not talking huge outlay either. For example, for the names to be more active on the forum ...perhaps you could agree on less articles / more forum input for the same price. While for the incentive for members to submit material ...I am talking a float or a baseball cap or a spool of line..i.e just a token of gratitude for something people will probably spend several hours if not days putting together.
I just think the ship needs some tweaks to set it on the best path...what that path actually is I dont think anyone is 100% sure so we all throw our ideas in & hopefully it can help them to sort it out.
What I would say is that two recurring themes that a number of people have mentioned and I think constantly get overlooked is that a small incentive to encourage members to submit material and trying to get the name anglers to be more active on the forum would make a big difference. Perhaps not a return to the Marsden "good old days" but at least a change in that sort of direction.
Ok neither of those ideas is "free" with zero expenditure but we are not talking huge outlay either. For example, for the names to be more active on the forum ...perhaps you could agree on less articles / more forum input for the same price. While for the incentive for members to submit material ...I am talking a float or a baseball cap or a spool of line..i.e just a token of gratitude for something people will probably spend several hours if not days putting together.
markcw
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It's seems you jumped to the most simplistic conclusion by calling posters on MD knuckle dragging racists.
All it needs is someone on MD to read that and post it on MD , and then back to square one like last time.
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Hi all,
Thanks for your contributions to this thread, it's been very helpful. Regarding member articles, I have tried several times to encourage these in the past and really would welcome these, but we get very few submissions. This was also true before we started paying for content.
I find the suggestions that we are running this in more of a corporate and aloof way quite sad and a little insulting, to be honest. We're a small business, trying to keep the site going in a very tough economic climate. I don't know why people are so against the forum being run as part of a business, how else would it function? It wouldn't exist. In the 'good old days' forums in general were busier, in part because of the way that Google included them in search results, and also before Facebook and other social media became so popular. It was much easier to run a forum and cover costs in those days. Things have changed, so we need to look to alternatives. This is true for our other forums but FM is the one we've invested in the most in terms of content and time, hence asking the question here first. We know the site is important to people (including us), and we want to keep it going.
And to clarify, we're not actually asking members to pay, the thread was just to explore people's thoughts about it. It's very clear now that that approach won't work, so we'll have to look at alternatives. It's interesting that several people have mentioned 'MD' - they do have a paid subscription model.
We don't have the resources for a paid Editor, so you're stuck with me I'm afraid.
I will be going on maternity leave in a few weeks (another little fisherman on the way) but I will keep an eye on things and Peter knows how to contact me if needed. I will of course keep you posted on any changes but it certainly looks unlikely that we'll be introducing any form of payment soon, so don't worry about that.
Thanks for your contributions to this thread, it's been very helpful. Regarding member articles, I have tried several times to encourage these in the past and really would welcome these, but we get very few submissions. This was also true before we started paying for content.
I find the suggestions that we are running this in more of a corporate and aloof way quite sad and a little insulting, to be honest. We're a small business, trying to keep the site going in a very tough economic climate. I don't know why people are so against the forum being run as part of a business, how else would it function? It wouldn't exist. In the 'good old days' forums in general were busier, in part because of the way that Google included them in search results, and also before Facebook and other social media became so popular. It was much easier to run a forum and cover costs in those days. Things have changed, so we need to look to alternatives. This is true for our other forums but FM is the one we've invested in the most in terms of content and time, hence asking the question here first. We know the site is important to people (including us), and we want to keep it going.
And to clarify, we're not actually asking members to pay, the thread was just to explore people's thoughts about it. It's very clear now that that approach won't work, so we'll have to look at alternatives. It's interesting that several people have mentioned 'MD' - they do have a paid subscription model.
We don't have the resources for a paid Editor, so you're stuck with me I'm afraid.
I will be going on maternity leave in a few weeks (another little fisherman on the way) but I will keep an eye on things and Peter knows how to contact me if needed. I will of course keep you posted on any changes but it certainly looks unlikely that we'll be introducing any form of payment soon, so don't worry about that.
David Rogers 3
Well-known member
Not sure what's meant by this, as the search engines I mostly use (Duck Duck Go and Google) still do include forum posts in search results. You just have to add the word 'forum' after your search term(s). I do this all the time when I don't want my search results to consist mainly of sites selling whatever it is I'm looking for.
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That's exactly the point - they only come up if you search for the word 'forum' which most people don't do unless they specifically want to visit a forum.
Previously, forum posts would come up as part of the search results for a normal search, e.g. 'barbel fishing' would bring up posts from this site relating to barbel fishing. This brought a lot of new people to the site, but doesn't happen anymore, hence traffic is lower.
David Rogers 3
Well-known member
Not so - I've just run the same search without using the word 'forum' and the FM thread still shows high up on the list of results.
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mikench
Well-known member
I have never inserted the word forum in my searches on google. I have found that by searching for , say, short trotting rod or best wide gape hooks, I usually find lots of entries for FM. I reaffirm I would be willing to pay a reasonable sum per annum to access this site. It provides me with lots to occupy my time and but for FM , several people , I now call friends , would never have been known to me. I also accept that a forum has to have a business plan/ model to follow.
Best wishes for the impending birth Kirsty.
Best wishes for the impending birth Kirsty.
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Google's search algorithms are a bit of a mystery but I know that about 10 years ago they changed the way they index forum sites, leading to big drops in traffic for forum sites. Some will still appear, but they aren't given the same priority in search results anymore unfortunately!
sam vimes
Well-known member
I often search for specific old rods by name and/or product codes. FM posts regularly pop up in these searches. Unfortunately, they are often useless as they are simply posts with defunct links to ebay items posted over ten years ago.
The following link is a search for a Daiwa rod product code (Daiwa Connoisseur-Z Power Special CN-ZM130AP, for anyone interested). Five of the top six results are for different UK angling forums.
https://www.google.co.uk/search this is the FM post thrown up by the search. https://fishingmagic.com/forums/thread
I sometimes wonder whether information about older (pre or early internet days) might not be of interest to some. I know that catalogue information, specifications and original prices certainly interest me, especially older catalogues that still extant manufacturers have no interest in releasing as a PDF as they do with current/recent catalogues. I know it would bore many stupid, but such stuff usually generates some interest. It would certainly be a resource that can't easily be found anywhere.
The following link is a search for a Daiwa rod product code (Daiwa Connoisseur-Z Power Special CN-ZM130AP, for anyone interested). Five of the top six results are for different UK angling forums.
https://www.google.co.uk/search this is the FM post thrown up by the search. https://fishingmagic.com/forums/thread
I sometimes wonder whether information about older (pre or early internet days) might not be of interest to some. I know that catalogue information, specifications and original prices certainly interest me, especially older catalogues that still extant manufacturers have no interest in releasing as a PDF as they do with current/recent catalogues. I know it would bore many stupid, but such stuff usually generates some interest. It would certainly be a resource that can't easily be found anywhere.
David Rogers 3
Well-known member
It might be worth your while to register on the Traditional Fisherman's Forum - every now and then, a member uploads scans from vintage tackle catalogues.
steve2
Well-known member
Just don't mention carbon on that website.
sam vimes
Well-known member
I'm aware of TFF, but I'm pretty sure that my interests don't align with that particular forum. I've got very little interest in anything prior to 1990. I'd expect to be about as welcome as a fart in a space suit. Contrary to popular opinion, I've no desire to wind anyone up, so I stay well away.
David Rogers 3
Well-known member
Ah, sorry - I misunderstood what you meant by 'older' catalogues!
theartist
Well-known member
Many sites now have a donation option, usually paypal. But forums are only as good as the contributors and that includes staff and members.
There's been many a good article by members that could have been used by admin as an article if they bother to ask the members posting, or bothered to look. When I wander through the forums on here I have always got the feeling this one is below on priorities than the Fly and Salmon forums under the Fishing Magic Banner, certainly Kirsty's posts are far more frequent on the Fly forum and she only pops up here where there's an issue it seems, sorry if that's a bit harsh Kirsty but it's how it looks.
The layout of this forum is good it just needs better content, the Bailey/Coster articles are a good idea but there needs to be more, think of a magazine with just two writers and an editor that's fleeting in their appearances, it wouldn't have got off the ground even in the heyday of the printed press.
There's been many a good article by members that could have been used by admin as an article if they bother to ask the members posting, or bothered to look. When I wander through the forums on here I have always got the feeling this one is below on priorities than the Fly and Salmon forums under the Fishing Magic Banner, certainly Kirsty's posts are far more frequent on the Fly forum and she only pops up here where there's an issue it seems, sorry if that's a bit harsh Kirsty but it's how it looks.
The layout of this forum is good it just needs better content, the Bailey/Coster articles are a good idea but there needs to be more, think of a magazine with just two writers and an editor that's fleeting in their appearances, it wouldn't have got off the ground even in the heyday of the printed press.
mikench
Well-known member
It's got you posting again Rob so not all bad.? Good to see you back.
John Aston
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..or make a tongue in cheek a comment poking very gentle fun about the humble braqging language some anglers use in the press to describe their latest triumph . Cue outrage - raw nerves ? Cue my exit too. A shame , as there were some exceptionally nice people there and they even put up with my enthusiasm for carbon ...