Barrie's Latest Article

[EC]

A bite at last!

Sorry Tony!

The thing is though, seriously now, I am not taking the piss, Mike talks of at least 2 different year groups of fish having bred, and yet on some rivers I have visited regularly I have only caught what I can see being 1 year class!

To me this suggests that some conditions (in stillwaters) actually provide as good conditions for breeding as rivers?

Forget about emotions now, I am just talking about evidence from Mike, and am not suggesting that every puddle gets barbel stocked.

 

[Bob Hornegold]

Just out of interest Mike,

Approximately what weight have the originally stocked Barbel reached ?

Is Lymmvale a Club water or a day ticket water ?

And what was the original thinking behind the stocking the Barbel into Lymmvale ?

Do the Barbel get caught more in the Summer than in the Winter ?

Thanks

Bob

 

[Tony Rocca]

Barbel have turned up in lots of stillwaters, some were stocked legally, some were not. Need more evidence that these fish were actually bred on. Im not saying it isnt possible, strange things happen, just not convinced at the moment.

 

[Blunderer]

Mike Can answer these questions better than me but I will have a go anyway:

The original barbel have been caught at weights approaching double figures, I think. Mike will have the exact catch records as all members are required to submit a catch return.

Lymmvale is a club water.

No idea why they were stocked in the first place but Lymm AC stocked barbel and chub which were taken from the River Teme.

I believe they are caught much more in summer.

 

[Bob Hornegold]

As long as the Barbel were stocked legally what does it matter ?

Man has always taken species out of their natural enviroment and bred them on for food or pleasure.

Barbel are No different, unless you happen to be living in some sort of P C world, which has very little to do with the real world.

But didn't we do this subject to death a few months ago ?

And if I remember rightly the Barbel Police LOST.

Bob

 

[Bob Roberts]

News to us in the police force, Bob.

But moving swiftly on, the situation here is one in which the evidence put forward would indicate that breeding in Lymm Vale may have taken place.

If anything I've read in the past decade on the subject of barbel warrants scientific investigation it is this.

It does appear that LV is a million miles removed from the 'muddy pool' syndrome, described as it is as deep, crystal clear, a bed of stones and gravel and most importantly FLOWING water from the springs.

Even so, the discovery of a few small fish by itself doesn't necessarily prove that barbel have bred successfully. What it does suggest is that they may have done.

If only there was a young Neville Fickling out there somewhere who wanted to earn his zoology degree with a thesis on barbel instead of zander. Surely, surely, there is someone out there somewhere.

 

[Simon K]

"the situation here is one in which the evidence put forward would indicate that breeding in Lymm Vale may have taken place."

"Even so, the discovery of a few small fish by itself doesn't necessarily prove that barbel have bred successfully. What it does suggest is that they may have done."

Are you dismissing the eyewitness evidence expressed in earlier posts, Bob, who've seen the fish spawning? And who know the water well enough to know that the small fish have had no other way in?

Why not just accept it?

 

[Bob Hornegold]

I notice the Little Angry Red Face has appeard again ?

Now I wonder why that might be ?

Maybe the Barbel Police can't stand to hear that Barbel have bred in Still Water.

But then again, this isn't really Still is it, its clear, pure Spring fed water.

?

 

[Simon K]

Bob R, why not read Nev Fickling? He seems to retain as open a mind on the subject as Barrie Rickards.
'Stillwater Barbel' - Fickling

 

[Bob Roberts]

Nor is it proven, Bob.

 

[Wolfman Woody]

That's an interesting piece by Neville Fickling (Thanks Simon for pointing it out) and it seems to line up, in parts, to what Bob Roberts was saying - What's the point.

 

[Bob Hornegold]

Woody,

I suppose it depends on what " parts " of the article you are reading.

No one in their right mind would approve of transfering River Barbel to Still waters.

I think we are all agreed on that ?

Neville is of the opinion that Barbel in one lake bred, which he detailed.

Barbel like all fish, get stressed and were attacked by louse during low oxygen condition, along with other species.

Gudgeon are of the same shape as Barbel and inhabit still water just as easily as running waters.

In nature, Neville has not seen Barbel actively seeking Still Water via a Pipe which the Chub used for this purpose ?

But he did comment that Barbel stocked legally seemed to be thriving in some waters.

That the Barbel Society have a Bee in Their Bonnet about the Stocking of Barbel from Calverton ( and a couple of Private Fish Farms) into Still Waters ?

Neville also stated, that Barbel were bred in still water and had to be introduced to running water if they were to be stocked into running water.

Neville wonders why some commercial waters stock Barbel rather than Carp.

As I read it, there are pros and cons, but at least Neville was not Dogmatic, showing the his scientific training.

Interesting article and I suspect we will now debate the points he made ?

Bob

 

[Simon K]

Very true, Woody, but isn't this thread about "Barbel Breeding in Stillwater"? To which Nev's piece adds (I think) another Nail in the Coffin of Bob's scepticism?

Isn't the "What's The Point" line the last refuge of a failed argument?! (even if it has some worth?)

Regardless of which, it seems a shame that when the "academics" weigh in and say they believe that Barbel breed unaided in Stillwater, forum-users suddenly get "respectful", but anybody else putting forward the same opinions and arguments gets shouted down. Or it seemed that way to me looking thrpough the FM Archives on this subject.

I note that Nev's piece is from 2001, not exactly "breaking news"!.

It's a funny old world!

 

[Mike Wilkinson]

Bob, Lymmvale is a strictly members only water. Some of the original barbel have attained weights in exceess of 10lbs, although the average tends to be 5-8lb, the biggest was confirmed at 10lb 4oz (a fish I witnessed myself) although I did hear of unconfirmed reports of an 11lb+ fish about 6 or 7 years ago.
I can't really comment on the original thinking behind stocking them as it was before I became waterkeeper & bailiff, the first barbel would have been stocked around the mid to late eighties and the last were about 12 years ago, around 1993/94. Finally, they never seem to have a 'hot' time of the year and are caught fairly constantly all year except for the coldest months in mid-winter.

 

[Steve Spiller]

Hi Bob H,
It's up to you if do not wish to speak to me again, but I did apologise, sincerely.
This thread is about barbel spawning in still water, you are correct.
Thanks Mike very informative and straight from the "horses mouth"!
The last time we debated this topic we were lacking any evidence of proof, now we have it!
L.V sounds like the perfect habitat for barbel; crystal clear water, spring fed, high oxygen levels, gravel and stone beds, perfect!
Question; does the water flow (spring) remain constant all year round?
If so, would it not be easy to fool the fish into believing they are in thier natural habitat, man made gravel beds flooded with lovely flowing water and they breed!
"Nature will find a way!"
Well done Bob H you've got your proof.
But the original question was " Is it Right, to stock barbel into stillwaters"
This is one success story, the rest of the puddles are failures!
As I said "it's about demand" if there is a demand? Fishery owners will meet that demand, be it wrong or right, thats how it is!
Thanks Mike for giving us your facts, sorry mate I wont be on your membership waiting list!
The Bristol Avon has all I need!

 

[Steve Spiller]

"Gudgeon are of the same shape as Barbel and inhabit still water just as easily as running waters."
Come on Bob you can do better than that!

 

[Bob Hornegold]

Dog Biscuit,

Not really my words, but an interpretations from Neville's article.

Mike,

The reason I asked about the time of the year when the Barbel were caught from your water ?

In the original thread, the question was raised, Is it right ?

Well that question is of course subjective, one of the reasons I was given for stocking Barbel into Still waters.

Winter sport, when many other species stop Feeding.

Not of course a good enough reason for many of the posters here, but I'm certain that the anglers at Makins feel it is a valid arguement.

Bob

 

[ED (The ORIGINAL and REAL one)]

Does anyone know if the barbel in Worthington Reservoirs have ever spawned or bred successfully--they have been in there for years--

Has anyone caught or know anyone that has caught barbel from there ??

 

[Bob Roberts]

I'm still hoping that Barrie comes on and answers the original question, ie., where is the water he fered to.

I repeat I respect Barrie greatly but as a scientist I would expect him to say that the Lymm vale evidence, as presented on here, does not add up to conclusive proof.

That's why I'm interested in hearing the details supporting his article comment. He may well be talking of somewhere else completely so let's not jump to too many conclusions.

I'm actually ambivalent about the spawning issue. It is only one reason for the justification or otherwise of introducing barbel to stillwaters. The issue of seasonal migration is a far bigger stumbling block for the fish to overcome in half acre puddles.

I've visited most of the spawning refuges created by the EA alongside and connected to the River Trent and as yet there is no evidence that barbel frequent them to spawn, or to do anything else for that matter.

Some are connected by pipes, others have gaping wide accesses, and so do the umpteen marinas for that matter.

Strikes me that the fish don't just prefer the flow, they actually seek it.

And if a couple of isolated reports from one water is sufficient to justify the whole raft of legal and illegal stockings to date and in the future then it equates to me scoring a hole in one next week and believing that I can go round Wentworth in 18 shots.

 

[EC]

I don't think anyone is trying to justify illegal stockings Bob.