Benyon Rejects Canoeists’ ‘Right to Paddle’ Campaign

Joined
Jan 2, 2005
Messages
5,751
Reaction score
12
Location
Stockport
DM - this is indeed the case that was being referred to in the above posting by Dave and subsequently commented upon by Windy.

The judgment of the initial trial judge was subsequently overturned by the Court of Appeal ; however the Lord Lords (now the Supreme Court) reversed that decision to return to the original decision ) that the original plaintiffs could not establish a right of passage).

Under the law of precedent this would seem to establish a binding precedent on all such subsequent cases.

However since Lord Gardiner's practice statement of 1966 the Law Lords ( now Supreme Court) can reverse precedent. It is something that the highest court is always very reluctant to do....but will on very rare occasions. And lawyers will try to differentiate cases to try and demonstrate that a previous precedent doesn't actually apply to their specific case. Keeps them in employment;)

(this comes as usual with the health warning that I merely teach prospective lawyers - Windy's the one with the experience closer to the coal face!!):wh
 

nicepix

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 14, 2012
Messages
5,063
Reaction score
7
Location
Charente, France
Better late than never:

Thank you for your email of 11 January to Richard Benyon about access to inland waterways. I have been asked to reply.

Defra’s policy remains that all 2,000 miles of canals and rivers entrusted to the Canal and River Trust are open to British Canoe Union members and that canoeists and others wishing to use other waterways can work with the landowner to agree access. Defra believes that these decisions are best made between local people, according to their area’s own recreational, business and conservation needs, rather than by central Government. The Government have no current plans to introduce new legislation.

Yours sincerely,

Gordon Wilson
Defra - Customer Contact Unit
 

nicepix

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 14, 2012
Messages
5,063
Reaction score
7
Location
Charente, France
It is. however I had asked Mr. Benyon to consider asking Parliament to approve a Fixed Penalty Notice fine for canoeing or boating on non-navigable waters. That I believe would clarify the position enabling police forces to deal with these issues more easily.

Having been in the police for twenty five years I know that under current financial conditions they will avoid spending money dealing with anything difficult especially if it is a low priority. I can just see the top brass putting this into the 'civil remedy' box, i.e. not dealing with it themselves. A Fixed Penalty fine would have cut through that debate.

As it is, I urge anyone who suffers from canoeists on non-navigable waters to phone the local police force and report a case of Harassment. As long as you use the magic words that they have caused you 'Alarm', 'Distress' and 'Harassment' then the force by law are obliged to record it as a crime and investigate it. No senior officer is going to want their crime figures being increased with multiple cases of Harassment and that is sadly about the only reasonable way that you will get the police involved.

Clubs and Associations blighted by canoeists might want to ask for a meeting with the Inspector in charge of neighbourhood policing for the affected area. Take the full facts with you and try and convince the Inspector that patrolling the parking areas where canoeists frequent and officers having a word with them as the arrive or depart might stop the force receiving complaints of Harassment. Worth a try.
 

Jeff Woodhouse

Moaning Marlow Meldrew
Joined
Jan 2, 2002
Messages
24,576
Reaction score
18
Location
Subtropical Buckinghamshire
I had asked Mr. Benyon to consider asking Parliament to approve a Fixed Penalty Notice fine for canoeing or boating on non-navigable waters.
No chance of that. Even the mighty EA have asked if they can issue fixed penalty notices against anglers fishing without a licence, this would save Court time and staff costs appearign at Court and the fine would go directly into EA funds, but still there has been no decision, and unlikely to be in the near future.

Easieast option always - leave it be.
 

nicepix

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 14, 2012
Messages
5,063
Reaction score
7
Location
Charente, France
No chance of that. Even the mighty EA have asked if they can issue fixed penalty notices against anglers fishing without a licence, this would save Court time and staff costs appearign at Court and the fine would go directly into EA funds, but still there has been no decision, and unlikely to be in the near future.

Easieast option always - leave it be.

Its not that simple. The FPN were designed to streamline the criminal justice system and reduce the number of people being processed through courts at a great cost. Also, FPNs would be able to be issued by civilian officers such as council enforcement staff and tax inspectors. Plans were to roll out FPN options for a far greater number of offences than originally planned. The easy option is a FPN in many cases.
 

Jeff Woodhouse

Moaning Marlow Meldrew
Joined
Jan 2, 2002
Messages
24,576
Reaction score
18
Location
Subtropical Buckinghamshire
The easy option is a FPN in many cases.
I agree, but like I say, the EA have asked if they can use it and it's taking too long to decide or no one will come forward with a decision. Hence the "It's easier to do nothing" comment - as said by some lazy sod in Government.

"In any moment of decision, the best thing you can do is the right thing, the next best thing is the wrong thing, and the worst thing you can do is nothing." - Theodore Roosevelt

A pity people cannot learn these lessons from others.
 

waterways

Active member
Joined
Dec 14, 2012
Messages
33
Reaction score
0
DEFRA has now acknowledged that the law relating to canoeing on English rivers is unknown. To quote:


"There is no clear case law on whether a 'common law right of navigation' exists on unregulated rivers. This is widely accepted to be an unclear and unresolved issue."

You can read about it here:

Rivers Access for All

Perhaps now, The Angling Trust will stop their arrogant posturing and bully boy tactics and get behind a plan whereby all river users can share the rivers of our native land without conflict.
 

Fred Bonney

Banned
Banned
Joined
May 26, 2001
Messages
13,833
Reaction score
12
Location
Domus in colle Lincolnshire Wolds
Defra can say that , but that doesn't mean they will do anything to change what already exists

There are however many who believe it's perfectly clear, there are no navigation rights other than those specified so clearly throughout this thread.

The Angling Trust isn't posturing, it's working for and respecting the rights of anglers who have a right to be on a river be that financially or by permission.

The arrogance comes from those who believe they have a right to do whatever they wish, without taking into account those who already have ownership or rights to the rivers.
 

bennygesserit

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 26, 2011
Messages
6,052
Reaction score
375
Location
.
Got this off the SOTP some environment Minister !
Richard Benyon, the minister destroying what he is paid to protect | George Monbiot | Environment | guardian.co.uk

---------- Post added at 18:03 ---------- Previous post was at 18:02 ----------

Englefield House in Berkshire, residence of Conservative environment minister Richard Benyon. Photograph: Angelo Hornak/Alamy
Like several other Conservative ministers, Richard Benyon is extremely rich. Like quite a few representatives of the party of free enterprise, he got there by being enterprising enough to have inherited his property. He lives in a magnificent Tudor stately home, Englefield House, near Reading, surrounded by a deer park and a 20,000-acre walled estate. It was acquired by his family 250 years ago. The estate owns most of Englefield village, which lies within its walls.

Alongside the rents it collects, much of the estate's income appears to arise from another form of entrepreneurship: harvesting farm subsidies. According to the Daily Mail, the Englefield Estates trust has received £2m from the taxpayer over 10 years. I would like to have confirmed this with his office, but it is refusing to answer my questions, or to respond to my requests to talk to the minister. So if the Mail got it wrong, that's his tough luck.

His parliamentary register of interests states that he also owns residential and commercial property in Berkshire, Hampshire and London, for which he takes rent, and rural land and property in Inverness-shire. As they say, we're all in this together.

To boost its meagre earnings, the Benyon family has been flogging off some of the sand and gravel which underlies its land to a quarrying company, Hanson Aggregates. Its current scheme, extracting 2m tonnes from an area called Benyon's Inclosure (the name suggests a history of booting off commoners), has been sharply criticised by the local wildlife trust and local councils for its likely impacts on wildlife and biodiversity.

Benyon's Inclosure is designated as a site of importance for nature conservation. It contains pockets of ancient woodland, including rare alder carr (swamp forest), heath and dry acid grassland. According to the Hampshire Wildlife Trust and the borough and parish councils, the new works, covering 88 hectares (217 acres), and the estate's plan to use the area for commercial forestry when the extraction has finished, will destroy irreplaceable ancient woodland, cause the permanent loss of heathland and prevent the restoration of native forest. The protected species surveys, the borough council claims, were inadequate. So too, according to the wildlife trust, is the plan to recreate some habitat on nine hectares of land when the quarrying comes to an end.

The quarry cuts through the middle of a long-standing plan by conservationists to connect up local wildlife habitats, in order to create a large-scale "living landscape" of the kind that now appears to be essential to prevent continued losses of wildlife and biodiversity. The estate's proposal effectively spanners years of hard work by the wildlife trust.

Despite all that, the new works received planning permission at the end of last year. To the astonishment of the objectors, Hampshire county council, which is controlled by the Conservatives, ruled that the sand and gravel extraction would "cause no significant … biodiversity impact".

A big estate allegedly trashes the environment: there's nothing remarkable about that, you might think. Until you discover that Benyon is the minister responsible for wildlife and biodiversity.

Benyon has already demonstrated that he has little comprehension of or interest in his brief. In September last year he revealed a breathtaking ignorance of both ecology and his department's own guidelines when he announced on Facebook that he was waging war on people who allowed ragwort to grow on their land. Ecologists pointed out that it is an important part of our native flora, supporting at least 30 species of insect and 14 species of fungi.

In the previous month he was spectacularly caught out by Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall on the Fish Fight programme when he was unable to identify the common fish species that he is supposed to be protecting.

But this story is much more serious. It suggests a potential conflict of interest. Were the laws protecting wildlife and biodiversity as tough as many believe they should be, in order to arrest the shocking rate of decline of our fauna and flora, workings such as those at Benyon's Inclosure would not be permissible. The minister appears to have a powerful commercial interest in resisting stricter protections for the animals and plants he is charged with protecting. The conclusion that he is in the wrong job seems inescapable.

George Monbiot
 

geoffmaynard

Content Editor
Joined
Jul 5, 2009
Messages
3,999
Reaction score
6
Location
Thorpe Park
Perhaps now, The Angling Trust will stop their arrogant posturing and bully boy tactics and get behind a plan whereby all river users can share the rivers of our native land without conflict.

Over my dead rotting body. Not while I'm paying for quality fishing and illegal paddlers are screwing it all up with a 'do as you likey' it's-all-free attitude.
"There is no clear case law on whether a 'common law right of navigation' exists on unregulated rivers. This is widely accepted to be an unclear and unresolved issue."

Who by? Nobody I know who fishes rivers that's for sure. This statement is nothing more than continued waffle
 

nicepix

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 14, 2012
Messages
5,063
Reaction score
7
Location
Charente, France
Over my dead rotting body. Not while I'm paying for quality fishing and illegal paddlers are screwing it all up with a 'do as you likey' it's-all-free attitude.
"There is no clear case law on whether a 'common law right of navigation' exists on unregulated rivers. This is widely accepted to be an unclear and unresolved issue."

Who by? Nobody I know who fishes rivers that's for sure. This statement is nothing more than continued waffle

Exactly.

They pin their hopes on the thesis of a college student that is neither statute law nor case law. It is one student's interpretation. That's all.
 
B

Berty

Guest
Got this off the SOTP some environment Minister !
Richard Benyon, the minister destroying what he is paid to protect | George Monbiot | Environment | guardian.co.uk

---------- Post added at 18:03 ---------- Previous post was at 18:02 ----------

Englefield House in Berkshire, residence of Conservative environment minister Richard Benyon. Photograph: Angelo Hornak/Alamy
Like several other Conservative ministers, Richard Benyon is extremely rich. Like quite a few representatives of the party of free enterprise, he got there by being enterprising enough to have inherited his property. He lives in a magnificent Tudor stately home, Englefield House, near Reading, surrounded by a deer park and a 20,000-acre walled estate. It was acquired by his family 250 years ago. The estate owns most of Englefield village, which lies within its walls.

Alongside the rents it collects, much of the estate's income appears to arise from another form of entrepreneurship: harvesting farm subsidies. According to the Daily Mail, the Englefield Estates trust has received £2m from the taxpayer over 10 years. I would like to have confirmed this with his office, but it is refusing to answer my questions, or to respond to my requests to talk to the minister. So if the Mail got it wrong, that's his tough luck.

His parliamentary register of interests states that he also owns residential and commercial property in Berkshire, Hampshire and London, for which he takes rent, and rural land and property in Inverness-shire. As they say, we're all in this together.

To boost its meagre earnings, the Benyon family has been flogging off some of the sand and gravel which underlies its land to a quarrying company, Hanson Aggregates. Its current scheme, extracting 2m tonnes from an area called Benyon's Inclosure (the name suggests a history of booting off commoners), has been sharply criticised by the local wildlife trust and local councils for its likely impacts on wildlife and biodiversity.

Benyon's Inclosure is designated as a site of importance for nature conservation. It contains pockets of ancient woodland, including rare alder carr (swamp forest), heath and dry acid grassland. According to the Hampshire Wildlife Trust and the borough and parish councils, the new works, covering 88 hectares (217 acres), and the estate's plan to use the area for commercial forestry when the extraction has finished, will destroy irreplaceable ancient woodland, cause the permanent loss of heathland and prevent the restoration of native forest. The protected species surveys, the borough council claims, were inadequate. So too, according to the wildlife trust, is the plan to recreate some habitat on nine hectares of land when the quarrying comes to an end.

The quarry cuts through the middle of a long-standing plan by conservationists to connect up local wildlife habitats, in order to create a large-scale "living landscape" of the kind that now appears to be essential to prevent continued losses of wildlife and biodiversity. The estate's proposal effectively spanners years of hard work by the wildlife trust.

Despite all that, the new works received planning permission at the end of last year. To the astonishment of the objectors, Hampshire county council, which is controlled by the Conservatives, ruled that the sand and gravel extraction would "cause no significant … biodiversity impact".

A big estate allegedly trashes the environment: there's nothing remarkable about that, you might think. Until you discover that Benyon is the minister responsible for wildlife and biodiversity.

Benyon has already demonstrated that he has little comprehension of or interest in his brief. In September last year he revealed a breathtaking ignorance of both ecology and his department's own guidelines when he announced on Facebook that he was waging war on people who allowed ragwort to grow on their land. Ecologists pointed out that it is an important part of our native flora, supporting at least 30 species of insect and 14 species of fungi.

In the previous month he was spectacularly caught out by Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall on the Fish Fight programme when he was unable to identify the common fish species that he is supposed to be protecting.

But this story is much more serious. It suggests a potential conflict of interest. Were the laws protecting wildlife and biodiversity as tough as many believe they should be, in order to arrest the shocking rate of decline of our fauna and flora, workings such as those at Benyon's Inclosure would not be permissible. The minister appears to have a powerful commercial interest in resisting stricter protections for the animals and plants he is charged with protecting. The conclusion that he is in the wrong job seems inescapable.

George Monbiot




Whats it got to do with canoes on rivers?......you are a fisherman ( alleged!) how many species of fish could you identify?
 

bennygesserit

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 26, 2011
Messages
6,052
Reaction score
375
Location
.
Relax , it wasn't posted to provoke , It makes no difference to river access rights , I just thought it was interesting and , you are right , maybe not totally relevant , but where else would I post it ?

You have to remember anglers come from all walks of life mate and sometimes we will disagree about stuff.

Ha ha as for alleged fisherman ... More like happy splodger , how many fish could I idntify , coarse fish probably only 10

---------- Post added at 19:50 ---------- Previous post was at 19:47 ----------

Unless the AT has been infiltrated by the rich and gentrified and that is why they pump out so much anti canoe propoganda ? Did anyone ever think about that ?
 
B

Berty

Guest
Relax , it wasn't posted to provoke , It makes no difference to river access rights , I just thought it was interesting and , you are right , maybe not totally relevant , but where else would I post it ?

You have to remember anglers come from all walks of life mate and sometimes we will disagree about stuff.

Ha ha as for alleged fisherman ... More like happy splodger , how many fish could I idntify , coarse fish probably only 10

---------- Post added at 19:50 ---------- Previous post was at 19:47 ----------

Unless the AT has been infiltrated by the rich and gentrified and that is why they pump out so much anti canoe propoganda ? Did anyone ever think about that ?




Of course anglers come from all walks of life, i have always found that something wonderful about our hobby, i have known council house reared kids "mix" with almost Royalty and be on equal or better terms of understanding.

But theres always someone who thinks they know something when in fact they know sweet FA......again class is no barrier, but they are the most dangerous!
 

bennygesserit

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 26, 2011
Messages
6,052
Reaction score
375
Location
.
Of course anglers come from all walks of life, i have always found that something wonderful about our hobby, i have known council house reared kids "mix" with almost Royalty and be on equal or better terms of understanding.

But theres always someone who thinks they know something when in fact they know sweet FA......again class is no barrier, but they are the most dangerous!

Me mate I know **** all but I learn something new everyday :)
 
B

Berty

Guest
Me mate I know **** all but I learn something new everyday :)


I respect that and i certainly i also learn something new every day to......but i can't help thinking you shouldn't be commenting so much on a section of angling that affects you not one iota......i'm not having a dig at you as a person, you sound a good bloke.

Enough said.
 

geoffmaynard

Content Editor
Joined
Jul 5, 2009
Messages
3,999
Reaction score
6
Location
Thorpe Park
Unless the AT has been infiltrated by the rich and gentrified and that is why they pump out so much anti canoe propoganda ? Did anyone ever think about that ?

Uh? This has nothing to do with anything like a 'class war'. Anglers and paddlers come from anywhere and everywhere in the social scale. The ATr is fighting on behalf of rich and poor anglers alike.
 
Top