flightliner
Well-known member
I believe the only subject that was compulsory in the 1944 education act was religeon.
Brutalism in Fishing
- Thread starter Cliff Hatton
- Start date
steve2
Well-known member
Times have changed and all schools now have to follow the English Baccalaureate in order to boost the school league table position. Another reason why schools are now dropping non-academic subjects to balance the books.
mikench
Well-known member
And we wonder why teachers are leaving education and not being replaced!
Cliff Hatton
Well-known member
Perhaps I'll write the book one day... If viewers of 45+ could witness the way so many of our schools are now run, they'd hardly believe their eyes and ears.
There ARE notable exceptions where good / excellent standards still prevail but, in my experience - and it is considerable - the general standard is very, very poor.
In the sixties, I attended a bog-standard secondary modern in 'Sarf Ockindon', Essex, a school backing onto an immense land-fill site on the outer-fringe of a tough council estate. In comparison to a great many schools I've since taught in, my old school was like an expensive private seat of learning.
I spent two days at a school in Dagenham that would make an ideal location for a Mad Max film: everything reinforced / screwed-down; private security firm patrolling the corridors with walkie-talkies ("Victor 1, Victor 1...boy, six foot, blue hoodie, red bag...suspected weapon...")...zero order between lessons - just a mad scrum like you'd find at a football match (probably worse)
In a Harlow school I was compelled to call back a girl who had casually walked out of my lesson; she carried on walking down the corridor until I raised my voice and insisted she return. Naturally, I explained that she couldn't simply walk out of the classroom but she told me she could! There followed an exchange which she eventually won by producing a laminated card bearing the school logo and the Head's signature explaining that 'Tia has concentration issues and must be allowed 10 minutes out of the classroom if she so wishes"
Like I said, perhaps I'll write / illustrate the book one day...
Get outa my space!!!
There ARE notable exceptions where good / excellent standards still prevail but, in my experience - and it is considerable - the general standard is very, very poor.
In the sixties, I attended a bog-standard secondary modern in 'Sarf Ockindon', Essex, a school backing onto an immense land-fill site on the outer-fringe of a tough council estate. In comparison to a great many schools I've since taught in, my old school was like an expensive private seat of learning.
I spent two days at a school in Dagenham that would make an ideal location for a Mad Max film: everything reinforced / screwed-down; private security firm patrolling the corridors with walkie-talkies ("Victor 1, Victor 1...boy, six foot, blue hoodie, red bag...suspected weapon...")...zero order between lessons - just a mad scrum like you'd find at a football match (probably worse)
In a Harlow school I was compelled to call back a girl who had casually walked out of my lesson; she carried on walking down the corridor until I raised my voice and insisted she return. Naturally, I explained that she couldn't simply walk out of the classroom but she told me she could! There followed an exchange which she eventually won by producing a laminated card bearing the school logo and the Head's signature explaining that 'Tia has concentration issues and must be allowed 10 minutes out of the classroom if she so wishes"
Like I said, perhaps I'll write / illustrate the book one day...
Get outa my space!!!
flightliner
Well-known member
Interesting stuff Cliff.
geoffmaynard
Content Editor
Cliff is only scratching the surface of what he really has experienced. It is truly incredible. But I'll leave him to tell the tales. The latest one involved removing a drinking bottle from a kid. Tell 'em Cliff. You won't believe it.
Cliff Hatton
Well-known member
Geoff Maynard wrote:"Cliff is only scratching the surface of what he really has experienced. It is truly incredible. But I'll leave him to tell the tales. The latest one involved removing a drinking bottle from a kid. Tell 'em Cliff. You won't believe it"
Perhaps you're right, Peter.
Perhaps you're right, Peter.
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You know my views Cliff as I sent them to you some time ago . . . .
Maybe PM's are a better vehicle for this?
John,
That's a rather brutal condemnation of the Editorial Board of the FM Mad-House!
Cliff Hatton
Well-known member
John...went for a full-time position at a Chelmsford school 6 years ago and was required to take a lesson as part of the selection process. (There were 5 candidates) When it was my turn, I learned that the kids were part of that process! I walked out.
mikench
Well-known member
There is far too much political correction and not enough plain speaking ! Society should not pander to the illiterate, moronic and bluntly pathetic members of society. Help them yes but only to a point! The lowest common denominator should apply in mathematics and not in all walks of life. No wonder teachers are leaving the profession in droves and why private schools thrive!
Tell all Cliff because many have little idea of what teachers have to put up with. Dumbing down is self defeating and leads to the lunatics running the asylum!
Tell all Cliff because many have little idea of what teachers have to put up with. Dumbing down is self defeating and leads to the lunatics running the asylum!
Cliff Hatton
Well-known member
Maybe we are just the miserable sods of today that we, when young, thought were the miserable sods at that time when growing up, puberty adolescence etc
No, Ken.
Kids should NOT have a say in who teaches them.
Cliff Hatton
Well-known member
robtherake
Well-known member
Valid points, but it's easy to bundle-in the infirm, disabled, the mentally and socially-disadvantaged, their carers and older unemployed individuals and vilify the lot, which is what is currently being encouraged and which is a very dangerous route to travel. A society devoid of sympathy is no longer human, and to separate and disparage "undesirables" comes perilously close to eugenics.
In similar vein to the defunding of the NHS, designed to push it into full privatisation, the budget restrictions of the current free school system don't allow for a quality education and I'd suggest that private schools thrive as a direct result.
thecrow
Well-known member
I fall into that list and my wife represents the last one, I have worked all the time I was able to and along with my wife cared for my dad after he had a stroke, my wife has recently applied for careers allowance for looking after me, it is in round figures £62 per week, to qualify she has to look after me for a minimum of 35 hours per week (she does a lot more) that £62 equates to £1.77 per hour for doing the work she does saving this country how much??
Was a time that this country and most of those that lived in it cared for those less fortunate (I wasn't always disabled) seems now we have become something to complain about oh if everyone was able to work and do a job that paid well but then who would do the other tasks?
This is an oldish thread and I have to wonder why it has raised its head once again at what is one teachers holiday from school (work) that is equivalent to a whole year for most and that's if you have a contract other than zero hours. Yes teachers have it so hard don't they !
Cliff Hatton
Well-known member
Rob the Rake said:"In similar vein to the defunding of the NHS, designed to push it into full privatisation, the budget restrictions of the current free school system don't allow for a quality education and I'd suggest that private schools thrive as a direct result"
Rob: it's got more to do with standards, values and discipline than it has to do with financial resources. Until recent decades, kids did their lessons with the aid of chalkboards and plenty of them turned out just fine. Even the dullest (Oh! Sorry!Even the minimally exceptional) left school with a half-decent understanding of what is right, wrong, acceptable, decent, moral and lawful - not so now. But in a system where cutting and pasting internet-info and submitting it as homework is PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE in some schools - what can we expect? Such an act contravenes each and every value I've mentioned above - except 'lawful'.
Rob: it's got more to do with standards, values and discipline than it has to do with financial resources. Until recent decades, kids did their lessons with the aid of chalkboards and plenty of them turned out just fine. Even the dullest (Oh! Sorry!Even the minimally exceptional) left school with a half-decent understanding of what is right, wrong, acceptable, decent, moral and lawful - not so now. But in a system where cutting and pasting internet-info and submitting it as homework is PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE in some schools - what can we expect? Such an act contravenes each and every value I've mentioned above - except 'lawful'.
steve2
Well-known member
You have to either work in a school or be connected in some way to a school to realise what is happening.
My son as now given up teaching after 7 years in that time he as been sworn at, had chairs thrown at him, had parents frighten him for telling of there feral kids.
Seen the school become a place with over stressed teachers and children trying reach ridiculous targets just to keep their jobs. Schools have become exam factories where the curriculum and exams change with the wind and year on year budget cuts. He had to pay out of his own pocket for classroom basics.
In most schools now there are teachers not even qualified to teach the subject they teach. He was told that if he wanted to stay at the school he would have to switch to English or Maths because in their eyes because he passed them at GCSE he could teach them.
On top all of this worked a 60-70 hour week, which worked out at less than what I earned an hour as a cleaner in the same school.
My son as now given up teaching after 7 years in that time he as been sworn at, had chairs thrown at him, had parents frighten him for telling of there feral kids.
Seen the school become a place with over stressed teachers and children trying reach ridiculous targets just to keep their jobs. Schools have become exam factories where the curriculum and exams change with the wind and year on year budget cuts. He had to pay out of his own pocket for classroom basics.
In most schools now there are teachers not even qualified to teach the subject they teach. He was told that if he wanted to stay at the school he would have to switch to English or Maths because in their eyes because he passed them at GCSE he could teach them.
On top all of this worked a 60-70 hour week, which worked out at less than what I earned an hour as a cleaner in the same school.
Cliff Hatton
Well-known member
Steve2: you say that some teachers are not even qualified to teach the subjects they teach.
Well, as a supply teacher whose subject is English, I'm also pretty handy in the art class. Steve...it would seem that most kids have never been taught to hold and control a pencil. I have no qualification in art but, wherever I go, the kids invariably plead with me to be their permanent art-teacher - and I ain't that clever! BUT...I can draw trees with branches that taper from bottom to top...I can use a ruler to easily construct street scenes and cityscapes...I can shade a human face and draw a garden path that clearly winds away from the front door on level ground - rather than a perpendicular chute down which the occupants, presumably, fall when they step out of the front door. We are talking 13 and 14 year old kids here.
I have seen some genuinely superb artwork in one or two schools; work so good I've felt unable to comment because I've had nothing to offer. Generally though, standards are infantile: pasting cut-out pic's from magazines into a scrap-book is very popular, as is making a mosque out of cardboard tubes...
Purely because I've always READ and taken an interest in what's going on around me, I'm also able to deliver good geography, biology and 'PHSE' lessons - NOT because I'm clever but because I have a bit of life experience, that's all. When it comes to science (I've never been to a school that does physics...) I.T and religious studies, I'll just follow written instructions and do my best with any questions. If I don't know the answers, I say so and make a note for the returning teacher.
My last assignment, 'Design Technology' (Ha!!) saw me initially supervising a small class of Year 10 boys; I naturally assumed these smartly turned-out young men would embarrass me with their work, neatly carried in their very professional looking portfolios...I mean...Design Technology! I let them get on with it but eventually summoned the guts to walk around and inspect their work. My flabber had never been so ghasted! 'Designs' for lamps, chests of drawers, chairs etc were 2-3" freehand squiggles done in coloured pencils...angles all wrong, 'straight' edges 'feathered' and curved...I was astonished. Suddenly, I was an expert! I spent the rest of the triple lesson teaching Technical Drawing...y'know...top elevation, front elevation, side elevation, all dove-tailing perfectly simply by using a bleedin' ruler and equal spacing between the views. This was in a brand new, state-of-the-art 'Academy' costing multi-millions and the kids were amazed at how good their designs could look.
Here's the thing: there will be no shortage of readers here who could do exactly the same. When standards are so poor, any reasonably well-informed adult can make a decent fist of good teaching in a great many schools. Of course, genuine excellence is out there too - in places. In such schools high standards are quickly identified and the supply teacher's role is made very much easier.
Looking for a job? Part-time, maybe? Retired and want to be useful? Get into teaching!But be beware: any attempt to instil a little discipline in your charges WILL be frowned upon. You must never shout and you must always stay clear of a pupil's 'personal space' - a sort of 'aura' measuring approximately 3 feet. Touching a pupil is assault: be very wary of this. Never say the word 'black'. Pupils will gasp in horror and deem you 'racist' before they realise you're referring to an object or a dark night. Never insist on silence and order before dismissing a class: you'll rarely get either and when this impinges on the school's routine you'll be boll**ked by a senior staff member for holding things up. In the event of receiving even the foulest imaginable verbal abuse, don't bother reporting it because the miscreant will receive nothing more than a mild telling-off - as opposed to the expulsion most of us would have got. Lastly, if a kid falsely reports you for hitting him or her, they WILL be believed - every time - and you will be immediately ejected from the school. Have a great time!
Well, as a supply teacher whose subject is English, I'm also pretty handy in the art class. Steve...it would seem that most kids have never been taught to hold and control a pencil. I have no qualification in art but, wherever I go, the kids invariably plead with me to be their permanent art-teacher - and I ain't that clever! BUT...I can draw trees with branches that taper from bottom to top...I can use a ruler to easily construct street scenes and cityscapes...I can shade a human face and draw a garden path that clearly winds away from the front door on level ground - rather than a perpendicular chute down which the occupants, presumably, fall when they step out of the front door. We are talking 13 and 14 year old kids here.
I have seen some genuinely superb artwork in one or two schools; work so good I've felt unable to comment because I've had nothing to offer. Generally though, standards are infantile: pasting cut-out pic's from magazines into a scrap-book is very popular, as is making a mosque out of cardboard tubes...
Purely because I've always READ and taken an interest in what's going on around me, I'm also able to deliver good geography, biology and 'PHSE' lessons - NOT because I'm clever but because I have a bit of life experience, that's all. When it comes to science (I've never been to a school that does physics...) I.T and religious studies, I'll just follow written instructions and do my best with any questions. If I don't know the answers, I say so and make a note for the returning teacher.
My last assignment, 'Design Technology' (Ha!!
) saw me initially supervising a small class of Year 10 boys; I naturally assumed these smartly turned-out young men would embarrass me with their work, neatly carried in their very professional looking portfolios...I mean...Design Technology! I let them get on with it but eventually summoned the guts to walk around and inspect their work. My flabber had never been so ghasted! 'Designs' for lamps, chests of drawers, chairs etc were 2-3" freehand squiggles done in coloured pencils...angles all wrong, 'straight' edges 'feathered' and curved...I was astonished. Suddenly, I was an expert! I spent the rest of the triple lesson teaching Technical Drawing...y'know...top elevation, front elevation, side elevation, all dove-tailing perfectly simply by using a bleedin' ruler and equal spacing between the views. This was in a brand new, state-of-the-art 'Academy' costing multi-millions and the kids were amazed at how good their designs could look.Here's the thing: there will be no shortage of readers here who could do exactly the same. When standards are so poor, any reasonably well-informed adult can make a decent fist of good teaching in a great many schools. Of course, genuine excellence is out there too - in places. In such schools high standards are quickly identified and the supply teacher's role is made very much easier.
Looking for a job? Part-time, maybe? Retired and want to be useful? Get into teaching!But be beware: any attempt to instil a little discipline in your charges WILL be frowned upon. You must never shout and you must always stay clear of a pupil's 'personal space' - a sort of 'aura' measuring approximately 3 feet. Touching a pupil is assault: be very wary of this. Never say the word 'black'. Pupils will gasp in horror and deem you 'racist' before they realise you're referring to an object or a dark night. Never insist on silence and order before dismissing a class: you'll rarely get either and when this impinges on the school's routine you'll be boll**ked by a senior staff member for holding things up. In the event of receiving even the foulest imaginable verbal abuse, don't bother reporting it because the miscreant will receive nothing more than a mild telling-off - as opposed to the expulsion most of us would have got. Lastly, if a kid falsely reports you for hitting him or her, they WILL be believed - every time - and you will be immediately ejected from the school. Have a great time!
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