Chub - freelining rod

[Kevin aka Aethelbald]

I'm thinking of buying a rod for stalking and freelining bread, cheese, Spam etc, for chub, on the Warwickshire Avon and the smaller Birmingham Anglers rivers.

The rod I'm thinking of is one of the Drennan Red range feeder rods (I don't want to spend much), 9ft or 10ft for mobility. The rods have soft glass tips ranging from 1oz, 1.5oz, 2oz, 3oz and 4oz. They all suggest main lines of 3-7lbs or 4-8lbs and I'll probably use 6lb line straight through.

What should I be looking at in that range? Something in the middle - 1.5-2oz, or should I go as light as possible?

Thanks.

 

[nottskev]

If I had to choose one tip only for chub on small and medium-pace rivers, I'd go for 2 oz. Lighter can be bent too much to be any use by even modest flow; heavier can feel too stiff in slacker swims. I've often found on smaller rivers that a 2 oz tip can be a useful "pressure gauge" - if I can't make that tip work, it can be a sign that the flow is not really what chub seem to prefer and I should be fishing elsewhere. That's a bit of a generalisation, of course, and there are times when chub are in faster or stronger flow, but it's not a bad guide.

 

[Kevin aka Aethelbald]

^^^ That's a great explanation, thanks.

 

[@Clive]

Won't be a popular suggestion, but for me the best chub rod is a cane Avon and second best is a glass Avon. The action is perfect and you can see bites on the tip without needing a quiver tip or bobbin.

 

[Keith M]

For legering or freelining for Chub on smaller overgrown rivers I often use one of my older 11ft 1.25lb John Wilson Avon/quivers; I get the choice of the quiver section as well as being able to touch Leger for them using the Avon tip section; but the main reason I use this older rod is because this rod will take a lot of abuse on a very overgrown stream or river with overhanging branches and vegetation.

However if I’m legering or freelining for Chub (and not expecting any barbel) on larger width rivers which are not too overgrown I usually prefer to use one of my Drennan or Greys 12ft 1.25lb Specimen rods.

Keith

 

[barbelboi]

When I'm freelining for chub my number 1 bait is a lobworm..................My first choice rod is a Harrison Avon Specialist - beautiful action

 

[Peter Jacobs]

Some years ago I bought a pair of Bob James River twin rods that are a stepped up Avon design and I’ve never found a better alternative.

 

[Alan Whitty]

I think the Darent Valley 11ft would be a belter for freelining,lovely action and cheap as chips...

 

[mikench]

Great rod for the money.

 

[Kevin aka Aethelbald]

The Drennan Red Range Carp Feeder rod is rated for 4-8lb lines, and comes with the option of lots of tips, including 1.5oz and 2.0oz glass tips and a 3oz carbon tip. The Twin Tip Duo can be set up in a similar way, but that leads me to a question...

Given that I'll never use this rod for float fishing, why would an Avon-style rod be a better choice than a feeder rod like the Drennan? Does the average Avon rod have a more through (parabolic) action than what might appear to be a similarly spec'd feeder rod? What differences would there be - between an Avon rod and a feeder rod - in casting and presentation of the bait (for freelining), and playing and landing the fish?

As much as I read about them, I'm still not sure I understand the Avon rod, other than as a, '...just in case I fancy a bit of float fishing, ledgering or feeder fishing...', sort of rod, if you only want to carry one rod.

Hope this isn't too dumb a question, but if I were to be convinced one way or the other, it would help.
.

 

[@Clive]

An Avon rod has a through action, not tippy like a float rod, so you can apply more of the action when playing a fish. It also gives a softer casting action which is useful when using bread, paste or worm baits. Quiver tip rods have varying actions and then you have to consider that the tip itself has a bearing on it. I have a few quiver tip rods and try to use them with tips that blend into the action of the blank. So I have a 4oz tip on one, a 2oz tip on another and a 1.5oz tip on a different rod. That gives each rod a smooth, through action, like on an Avon. If I changed the tips the rod's actions would be totally different. This becomes apparent when you cast and when playing a fish. The only reasons that I have the quiver rods is that they are more widely available in longer lengths than Avons and can have more powerful test curves. But for what you want to do a 1lb tc Avon with a nice, soft, through action will be a pleasure to use.

 

[Steve Arnold]

The Drennan Red Range Carp Feeder rod is rated for 4-8lb lines, and comes with the option of lots of tips, including 1.5oz and 2.0oz glass tips and a 3oz carbon tip. The Twin Tip Duo can be set up in a similar way, but that leads me to a question...

Given that I'll never use this rod for float fishing, why would an Avon-style rod be a better choice than a feeder rod like the Drennan? Does the average Avon rod have a more through (parabolic) action than what might appear to be a similarly spec'd feeder rod? What differences would there be - between an Avon rod and a feeder rod - in casting and presentation of the bait (for freelining), and playing and landing the fish?

As much as I read about them, I'm still not sure I understand the Avon rod, other than as a, '...just in case I fancy a bit of float fishing, ledgering or feeder fishing...', sort of rod, if you only want to carry one rod.

Hope this isn't too dumb a question, but if I were to be convinced one way or the other, it would help.
.

Not that I can answer your question, but, any definitive replies might be interesting!

I have a Greys Prodigy "Barbel" rod that I guess is a stepped up Avon action, I see it as a decent general purpose rod, but a bit of a clumsy feel (might be me!)

Somewhere, on another forum, there was some debate on the use of quiver tip (feeder) rods for barbel fishing. There were those that really could not see the use of a quiver tip for barbel and were also negative about the playing ability of the feeder rod design.

The jury is still out for my opinion, but I use both Avon action rods and feeder rods. I have butchered a couple of rods and come up with a 10' rod with a 4 ozs quiver tip glued in that will cast 2 ozs to the horizon and 3 ozs 50 yds or so. It's proven quite useful in overgrown swims and deals with some decent fish in harsh conditions.

For my river fishing I would like a blank with a faster action than most Avon rods. A reasonably fine tip for bite detection and pulling into the weight, a suitably subtle mid-section for playing the fish and a steely butt for when things invariably get desperate.

Actually, it's the action a lot of light "spinning" rods have. Pity that they rarely cast enough weight and do not have the length.

I continue my personal search for my perfect fishing rod

 

[@Clive]

For my river fishing I would like a blank with a faster action than most Avon rods. A reasonably fine tip for bite detection and pulling into the weight, a suitably subtle mid-section for playing the fish and a steely butt for when things invariably get desperate.

That is exactly what Walker set out to achieve with his Mk. IV Carp rod. And the Avon is a scaled down version of it. He employed changes in taper to give a strong butt section, a pliable middle and delicate tip. He didn't know it, but that is exactly what Pezon et Michel had already designed into their Telebolic spinning rods, a design that was followed by the likes of Hardy and Sharpes. The fibreglass blank of the Hardy Richard Walker Mk. IV Carp rod is also found in their spinning rods and in the P&M spinning rods. And the Hardy RW Avon is a scaled down version with the same compound tapers. The cane Mk.IV also uses the same cane blank as the spinning rod.

The difference these days is that some manufacturers have done away with the compound tapers to save money and the simple taper rods they call Avons aren't the same action. They are slower due to not having a stiffer butt section.

 

[Kevin aka Aethelbald]

Last summer, Howard, at Manor Angling, showed me an Allcocks Avon rod and we compared it to a Drennan Twin Tip Duo - looking at how the Avon bent right through to the handle (parabolic?), unlike the Duo, which had a stiffer butt section. I wasn't at all clear about how I might use such a rod at the time, so I actually ended up with an Acolyte feeder, which I used for just that.

I don't want this rod for feeder fishing, so the thread has been an education. I guess I'll have to suck it and see - coarse fishing mistakes aren't as expensive as fly fishing ones. Thanks.
.

 

[Kevin aka Aethelbald]

For my river fishing I would like a blank with a faster action than most Avon rods. A reasonably fine tip for bite detection and pulling into the weight, a suitably subtle mid-section for playing the fish and a steely butt for when things invariably get desperate.

Sounds like what I like from my fly rods - protection for delicate tippets, feel, and power in reserve.

Actually, it's the action a lot of light "spinning" rods have. Pity that they rarely cast enough weight and do not have the length.

Funnily enough, I just bought my first spinning rod and went for a Westin that seemed to have just those attributes. It did occur to me to try the spinning rod for freelining, but it's only 7ft long... which, as you suggest, might be an issue on the Avon!
.

 

[nottskev]

I think it used to be that the playing actions of feeder and Avon rods were more starkly different, and the bigger the target fish, the greater the benefit of the relatively more through action of an Avon. But the comparison is less stark after two decades of commercial carp, and many modern feeder rods play medium-size carp or other big fish as well as Avons used to while having the better casting and bite-detection of trad feeder rods.

Even before then, though, there were feeder rod that were excellent for river chub. My favourite for chub of 2-4lb was a 90's Daiwa Connoisseur feeder rod (even though it's matchman designer had bream in mind) and it's casting of bombs and light feeders so accurate, it's detection of all kinds of bites via a range of excellent tips and it's fish-playing so good I wouldn't have dreamed of using an Avon to fish across a medium size river. It's still here ready for a chub come-back.

Once the barbel in our rivers started to get bigger, I tried fishing for them with a heavy feeder rod, but such ones as I had just got pulled out of shape and locked up too early with these powerful fish, and I only used barbel rods with Avon-type actions of the sort Clive describes these days. But chub are not barbel, and anyway most of us will only ever see chub of a size that don't need a rod designed for carp.

I have an Avon rod here, a Harrison Fishing Magic Concept rod, no less, from around 2000. I thinks it's about 1.5lb tc for what it's worth. I don't like the feel in the hand or the waggle. The only bites it shows well are barbel and method-feeder carp. It's not much good for casting a light float. It's a bit short for a lot of jobs. But with a carp of 10lb or a 5lb barbel on the end, it's action is a joy. It kind of sums up Avons for me.

 

[barbelboi]

The avon rod has had two different incarnations - the early type in three pieces intended for trotting and general bottom fishing for all coarse fish (including carp, when it was rare to find one over ten pounds) and the post-Walker two-piece design which was more leger-orientated. If you favoured float fishing over legering, something like the old Wallis Wizard would be your choice, whereas the specimen hunter who liked to leger would go for the MkIV Avon. Modern equivalents tend to be more closely related to the Walker MkIV avon than the Wallis type. I'm not sure there are any rods around in the UK today that really capture the old Wallis style of Avon rod, with its characteristic slow, all-through action

 

[@Clive]

I've got a Wizard and an 'original' Mk. IV Avon, i.e. from the same source that DW used to get his blanks so has the compound taper. That is perfect for float fishing and free lining as it has the finer tip. The Hardy's fibreglass version has the same characteristics. There are other versions that are based on the Mk. IV but don't have as fine a tip, the later B James and Chapmans cane ones for instance. However, in my opinion even a cane or fibreglass rod that is based on or close to the 10 foot, 1lb test curve Avon type design is a great rod for free lining and general chub fishing. I haven't got a carbon Avon that comes close.

 

[Keith M]

Given that I'll never use this rod for float fishing, why would an Avon-style rod be a better choice than a feeder rod like the Drennan? Does the average Avon rod have a more through (parabolic) action than what might appear to be a similarly spec'd feeder rod? What differences would there be - between an Avon rod and a feeder rod - in casting and presentation of the bait (for freelining), and playing and landing the fish?

As much as I read about them, I'm still not sure I understand the Avon rod, other than as a, '...just in case I fancy a bit of float fishing, ledgering or feeder fishing...', sort of rod, if you only want to carry one rod.

Hope this isn't too dumb a question, but if I were to be convinced one way or the other, it would help.
.

I have several Avon/Quiver rods (1.25lb Tc,1.5lb Tc and 1.7lb Tc) and I like the Avon/Quiver format because It gives me the option of either using the Quiver tip section or using the Avon tip section for touch legering or surface fishing; with only one rod; and that suits me as I like to travel light and without the kitchen sink.

My Feeder rods are a bit limiting for touch legering as the quivertips tend to cushion any movement felt through the line and don’t always give me a clean enough strike/pull when fishing a bait on the surface because of the Quiver tips.

I rarely use the Avon tip sections for float fishing but the choice is always there; but I’d rather use a rod with stand off rings and a better action which is more suited to float fishing/trotting.

Keith

 

[barbelboi]

I’ve also got a ‘onion’ BJ MK1V Avon (a birthday present in 1957). B James and son was our local t/s at the time and my late father was good friends with James Bruce Snr (so he probably got it at mate’s rates like most of his stuff). Consequently most of his rods were from that outlet – unfortunely his collection, including MK1V carp rods and other pre Walker involvement with the shop rods, were stolen whilst moving house in the early 70’s. The only reason I still have my MK1V is that I lent it to my brother for the day…