Chub - freelining rod

[Keith M]

I still have my B.James & Son Richard Walker MkIV Carp rod and my old Mitchell 300 which is what I caught my very first Barbel on back in 1975 (5lb 8oz) and also my first ever double figure Carp a year or two earlier (11lb).

The rods been on the wall in my fishing den (unused) for quite a while now and the reel is in the back of a drawer somewhere.


My very first Barbel caught touch legering in 1975 from the river Kennet using my B.James & Son Richard Walker MkIV Carp rod

Keith

 

[@Clive]

I’ve also got a ‘onion’ BJ MK1V Avon (a birthday present in 1957). B James and son was our local t/s at the time and my late father was good friends with James Bruce Snr (so he probably got it at mate’s rates like most of his stuff). Consequently most of his rods were from that outlet – unfortunely his collection, including MK1V carp rods and other pre Walker involvement with the shop rods, were stolen whilst moving house in the early 70’s. The only reason I still have my MK1V is that I lent it to my brother for the day…
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Must have been gutted to lose that collection Jerry. I'm pleased that you at least retained one from those days.

A bit off topic, but when Walker stopped building his own rods from scratch he got his cane blanks from J.B. Walker in Hythe. He finished those rods and gave them to his friends. JBW wasn't interested in selling complete rods, but sold the blanks as kits for the owners or their rod builders to finish. So B James got the go ahead to build the Mk. IV Carp and Avon rods. I have read that whilst initially B James kept to the specifications dictated by Walker, after a few years they dropped the compound tapers and built rods with a simple straight taper.

P.s. The Avocet in the B James advert is their version of the Allcocks Wizard.

 

[Steve Arnold]

That is exactly what Walker set out to achieve with his Mk. IV Carp rod. And the Avon is a scaled down version of it. He employed changes in taper to give a strong butt section, a pliable middle and delicate tip. He didn't know it, but that is exactly what Pezon et Michel had already designed into their Telebolic spinning rods, a design that was followed by the likes of Hardy and Sharpes. The fibreglass blank of the Hardy Richard Walker Mk. IV Carp rod is also found in their spinning rods and in the P&M spinning rods. And the Hardy RW Avon is a scaled down version with the same compound tapers. The cane Mk.IV also uses the same cane blank as the spinning rod.

The difference these days is that some manufacturers have done away with the compound tapers to save money and the simple taper rods they call Avons aren't the same action. They are slower due to not having a stiffer butt section.

I used a "Back to the Future" quip on an earlier post on rods. Clive, your observation about modern (cheap) blanks is spot on! Many of the carp rods now marketed have such poor actions. Pure luck if you find one that feels good when bent into a fish!

The only reason they still cast well is that the carbon has such good properties, pity they have the action of a scaffolding pole! I have a poor opinion of much of the imported stuff, but the one Harrison carp rod I have I also hate with a vengeance! Funny thing is, the last foot of the tip was a little too bendy. Either it was designed that way to allow smallish hooks to be used or, being 2nd hand, had "gone soft".

Either way it put me off risking big money for a new Harrison.

There are a few tackle shops in Ramsgate (where I will be next week) that sell coarse gear, with luck I will get to waggle a few rods there!

 

[barbelboi]

Clive, I believe that the blanks DW bought from JB Walker were made by none other than Bob (The Captain) Southwell………

Also, in respect of changing the original specifications, this was probably due to the inferior cane then available during the late 50s/early 60s. So leading to the change to hollow glass (which we know had been around for some years) initially with his son and then leaving James Bruce Jr and Ian Walker to carry on alone...(very successfully).

 

[Steve Arnold]

Sounds like what I like from my fly rods - protection for delicate tippets, feel, and power in reserve.



Funnily enough, I just bought my first spinning rod and went for a Westin that seemed to have just those attributes. It did occur to me to try the spinning rod for freelining, but it's only 7ft long... which, as you suggest, might be an issue on the Avon!
.

Reminds me that I have a Grauvell bass spinning rod that is a very good spec and over 9' long. That might do a job on the river!

 

[@Clive]

Jerry, I have a copy of another letter from DW dated about thirty years after the one I posted. He said that he thought that the JB Wallker blanks that he purchased in the early 50 's were built by the Captain of Croydon, Bob Southwell. JBW had a planing machine that allowed the sections to be machined to be identical so creating a perfect match for the other five they were glued to. JBW supplied the built blanks along with the fittings required to make up the rod. These kit rods were available up to the company going out of business in the 70's. David Norwich bought the planing machine.

The big unresolved question is whether DW caught the record on a rod he built from JBW cane shrives or from a blank supplied by them. He said that he built the rod and that has been taken to mean the former. But I am not sure.

Here is my Mk. IV Avon. Still in regular use, but now it has a Youngs Liteweight reel attached. My Mk. IV Carp rod is paired with a Mitchell half-bail as DW used on the day.

 

[@Clive]

I used a "Back to the Future" quip on an earlier post on rods. Clive, your observation about modern (cheap) blanks is spot on! Many of the carp rods now marketed have such poor actions. Pure luck if you find one that feels good when bent into a fish!

The only reason they still cast well is that the carbon has such good properties, pity they have the action of a scaffolding pole! I have a poor opinion of much of the imported stuff, but the one Harrison carp rod I have I also hate with a vengeance! Funny thing is, the last foot of the tip was a little too bendy. Either it was designed that way to allow smallish hooks to be used or, being 2nd hand, had "gone soft".

Either way it put me off risking big money for a new Harrison.

There are a few tackle shops in Ramsgate (where I will be next week) that sell coarse gear, with luck I will get to waggle a few rods there!

Just watch your back when in the UK. All those negative comments on Harrison rods won't have gone unnoticed in certain circles. They might have taken a FATWA out on you .

If they do get you try buying your freedom by grassing up Kev for catching stillwater barbel

 

[barbelboi]

Clive, I don't wish to reveal my source but I believe that Ravioli was caught on a MK111 that had a bit more oomph but didn't quite have the manners of the MK1V . It was supposedly hushed up as the MK1V was already being promoted as 'the' rod to own (and was in fact (obviously) better than the MKs 1 ,11 and 111........

 

[@Clive]

Yes Jerry, I too have heard that he used the Whopper Stopper on that day. Doesn't explain how Yates managed to subdue an even larger carp on the slimmed down Mk. IV Avon though.

If DW had visited Farlows he could have bought what is almost identical to his carp rod off the shelf. The Pezon et Michel Telebolic 15 range are almost 10 feet, compound taper and were available in Avon, Carp and Whopper-Stopper test curves. I have a 9' 9" Telebolic 15 "Professional" that was passed out of the factory on April 26th 1944. It has the Mk. IV action and a 2lb test curve. The 5L is a ringer for the Avon and the 5C is almost identical to the Carp. They were salmon and pike spinning rods.

 

[Kevin aka Aethelbald]

Wish I knew what you guys were on about. Maybe I'm not as old as I think I am. But seriously, I love it that the thread has revealed so much history (and the term 'Whopper-Stopper')... I'll read more when I have a bit more time, buy please carry on. My only worry is that it might result in me buying a split cane rod and a centre pin.
.

 

[Steve Arnold]

Just watch your back when in the UK. All those negative comments on Harrison rods won't have gone unnoticed in certain circles. They might have taken a FATWA out on you .

If they do get you try buying your freedom by grassing up Kev for catching stillwater barbel

One of the few "quality" rods I own is a Century Stealth "Hi-Bor" 12' 2.75 lb tc. It is quite old but has the action I appreciate, casts very well and has a good fighting curve with plenty left low down.
I bought that for £80 in brand new condition. Have you seen what a modern Century rod sells for now? I may give one a waggle if I see them in the UK shops. But if I had that money to spare Sally would expect a holiday in Corsica this year, not next!

 

[Kevin aka Aethelbald]

Thought I'd report back to say that I bought a hardly-used Drennan Acolyte Plus 12ft feeder, with 2oz, 3oz and 4oz tips. I might buy a 1.5oz tip to use during the summer months, when the Avon is pretty slack, and almost static in the margins. Now to buy some Spam.
.

 

[nottskev]

Thought I'd report back to say that I bought a hardly-used Drennan Acolyte Plus 12ft feeder, with 2oz, 3oz and 4oz tips. I might buy a 1.5oz tip to use during the summer months, when the Avon is pretty slack, and almost static in the margins. Now to buy some Spam.
.

Should be as good as anything for your river's chub.
They do love luncheon meat.
Here's a few random meat comments from someone who's been using it for barbel all the last few summers:

Spam is great, being soft, but in hot weather quickly "melts" (or the fat does) and gets tricky to keep on the hook.
Keep it in a cool bag with an ice pack.
Use Bacon Grill in a heatwave - tougher and less prone to soften in heat.
Punch out cylinders of meat in advance - beats chopping it up on the bank
Plus some clubs rightly say no tins on the bank
Glug the pieces in flavoured oil - once coated in oil, the bait lasts longer as kept out of the air.
Fridge or Freeze what you don't use - don't waste meat and flavouring.
Match the punch size to the hook you plan to use - hookpoint in flat end/turn/out through side stays on well
If using a Quickstop, add a cm length of silicone tube between Quickstop and hook - helps stop line cutting through.
But best on the hook as chub are buggers for dodging being caught on hair-rigs.
When you've sliced then punched the meat, fine chop the remains and feed with whatever through a feeder.

 

[Keith M]

Unlike Kev I don’t like to punch my meat out before fishing, but use a fully loaded ‘Lunch Punch’ and cut a short length of meat off for the hook using my reel line, leaving the rest still inside the punch till it’s needed (There are other similar punches like the lunch punch which can be pre loaded with meat ready for the hook)


The Lunch Punches that I use


My link Leger loaded with spice flavoured punched meat.

Keith

 

[nottskev]

It's like Gulliver's Travels. The ones who open the big end of their boiled eggs dispute with the ones who open the small end. Only joking Keith.

 

[Kevin aka Aethelbald]

People seem to use a multitude of different methods for the link ledger. Is there any reason not to use inline olives? Or do the various the link methods allow the line to run more freely on a take? In other words, might the olives make the line sit on or in the bottom material, causing unwanted friction?
.

 

[@Clive]

I punch the meat out the day before fishing, put the cylinders in a bag along with some smoked paprika or garllc powder and all the unused meat that has been chopped up for loose feed. The bag is inflated, sealed and agitated until all the meat is covered. Then it goes in the fridge overnight. If I need a smaller piece it can be cut on site whilst retaining most of the flavouring.

 

[barbelboi]

Likewise, unless fishing for barbel then it's half a can of meat on a size 1......................

It never ceases to amaze me that a fishing forum website spell checker has never heard of barbel and underlines it in red..................

 

[Keith M]

People seem to use a multitude of different methods for the link ledger. Is there any reason not to use inline olives? Or do the various the link methods allow the line to run more freely on a take? In other words, might the olives make the line sit on or in the bottom material, causing unwanted friction?
.

I personally much prefer my link ledgers to have links rather than be threaded through the middle of weights. Whether it matters is debatable; however when touch legering with a light link I feel more confident that a gentle pickup will be more noticeable and a gentle pluck will be felt through the line on my finger even when no sail away bite occurs.

These are the link Leger setups that I usually use when I’m legering for both Barbel and Chub, although when there is a layer of short weed fronds growing across the bottom and there’s a steady flow and I’m after Chub then I occasionally use longer links so that my bait is trailing in the flow above the layer of short weed; like in the left of my drawing below.

NB: Wrongly or rightly; the diagram (below right) is what I know as a link Leger; although both types (left and right) are called link Legers to a lot of other anglers as they’re both using linked weights.



Keith

 

[@Clive]

On the same note I use Catherine Leads when float ledgering and don't need a link ledger. They can quickly be put on and off the line without breaking up the rig, come in a variety of sizes. Use a float stop or small split shot to stop them sliding down the hook link. There are also smaller sizes like Olivettes that can be added or removed quickly.

The ones that I use for float ledgering or putting under a pike float are from 3g to 10g.