Feargal Sharkey

[Bluenose]

It must be because, almost every time I encounter the abbreviation MSM , it prefaces right wing conspiracy theories . As for applying pressure on government , most papers do that daily - it is their raison d'etre . Much as I am concerned about water quality as an angler , I acknowledge that , like myriad other issues , it won't get front page status merely because I have a special interest in it.

I suppose it depends if you consider the widescale pollution of our waterways as your special interest or, of wider public interest?

Nottskev has linked this today on another thread. Large swathes of the general public are blissfully unaware. That is down to the media, and the lack of decent journalism and reporting, in my opinion.

Pollution is damaging UK rivers more than public thinks, report says

Survey finds 43% of people saying waterways are in good condition despite threats in England, Wales and Northern Ireland

www.theguardian.com

 

[steve2]

I suppose it depends if you consider the widescale pollution of our waterways as your special interest or, of wider public interest?

Nottskev has linked this today on another thread. Many people are blissfully unaware.

Pollution is damaging UK rivers more than public thinks, report says

Survey finds 43% of people saying waterways are in good condition despite threats in England, Wales and Northern Ireland

www.theguardian.com

A couple of days ago a few protesters caused major problems on the M25 protesting about house insulation they made national news and highlighted their issue. Pity we can't get them on our side protesting about the pollution and over abstraction of rivers.
How many anglers would block the M25 for a few hours to raise the issue.

 

[steve2]

I see they are at it again today blocking even more of the motorway. I can see it ending with someone getting killed.

 

[nottskev]

I suppose it depends if you consider the widescale pollution of our waterways as your special interest or, of wider public interest?

Nottskev has linked this today on another thread. Large swathes of the general public are blissfully unaware. That is down to the media, and the lack of decent journalism and reporting, in my opinion.

Pollution is damaging UK rivers more than public thinks, report says

Survey finds 43% of people saying waterways are in good condition despite threats in England, Wales and Northern Ireland

www.theguardian.com

Thanks for drawing attention to it. There is some excellent coverage in some of our media, but not as you might, expect in the more popular/populist press and tv, where readers and viewers are not invited to bother themselves about such tedious stuff. Personally, I think this is entirely consistent in a consumer culture where our attention is always drawn to the goods in the shop window, and away from the production processes behind the goods, even when, or maybe even because, those processes are exploitative, badly regulated and damaging. Fortunately, the hidden side of the world of cheap chicken, to take one example, is being dragged into the light. It would be nice to think that more and more of us are cottoning on that, dirt cheap as it is, it's not a free lunch.

 

[Peter Jacobs]

Last night the government made a serious attempt to stop a Bill going through the Lord's that would prevent water companies dumping sweage into the rivers . . . . and yes, the same government who are Hosting COP26 later this year . . . . .

 

[John Aston]

I suppose it depends if you consider the widescale pollution of our waterways as your special interest or, of wider public interest?

Nottskev has linked this today on another thread. Large swathes of the general public are blissfully unaware. That is down to the media, and the lack of decent journalism and reporting, in my opinion.

Pollution is damaging UK rivers more than public thinks, report says

Survey finds 43% of people saying waterways are in good condition despite threats in England, Wales and Northern Ireland

www.theguardian.com

I wish the public were interested . Don't blame journalism though ,we have no shortage of excellent writers on environmental issues , but few read them .Blame a public which deems Strictly Come Dancing more important than who is in the Foreign Office ,and which increasingly relies on the froth and rumour of social media for news.

As for anglers protesting - if only . But we are almost defined by our apathy , and expecting most of the commercial crew to care a fig about rivers is a hope too far, sadly . Last time I fished one. tow knuckle dragging morons were moaning , loudly and obscenely about there being 'too many f***ing trees '

 

[steve2]

Anglers and apathy go hand in hand. Some anglers still believe that anglers are untouchable because anglers look after the water environment and there are too many of us. I wouldn't mind betting that anglers give more money and support to the RSPB and other nature groups than to any angling groups.

 

[Bluenose]

double post

 

[Bluenose]

I wish the public were interested . Don't blame journalism though ,we have no shortage of excellent writers on environmental issues , but few read them .Blame a public which deems Strictly Come Dancing more important than who is in the Foreign Office ,and which increasingly relies on the froth and rumour of social media for news.

As for anglers protesting - if only . But we are almost defined by our apathy , and expecting most of the commercial crew to care a fig about rivers is a hope too far, sadly . Last time I fished one. tow knuckle dragging morons were moaning , loudly and obscenely about there being 'too many f***ing trees '

Again I wouldn't necessarily disagree. However I think the way that the media/news is gathered, presented and distributed to the masses is the issue here. When we have so few people owning so many publications and news channels, and key media figures with very close political ties to various parties are in charge of what we see and read, then regardless of your political persuasion, that cannot be for the greater good.
It is human nature to look after ones self interests, whether that be protesting and spreading the word about the pollution on your local chalk stream, or keeping the story out of the limelight because you're mates with the local MP.
The media in this country is knackered, Leveson showed us that, and the cancellation of Leveson 2 pretty much confirmed it, imo.

 

[Molehill]

I only wish we had feedback from polluters, such as water companies, for their version of what happens and why. Whatever reporting one reads or hears it is always one sided and never balanced from both sides.
If plans go ahead for building 500 new homes, what happens when the water company says "where is the s**t going, because our facilities cannot cope"? Do they have any say in planning? Can they simply compulsory purchase some more land and build another sewage works where they want? If a sewage works is overwhelmed where can the sewage go other than into the river and away - do they pump it onto nearby farmland? If 30 new houses were built in our village I'm sure the old works would not manage, so what happens, do they build a new bigger sewage works on the Caravan club land?

There's lots of questions that are not addressed or answered from their side, I have a feeling the problem is a complex one and we hear nothing of those complexities. I strongly believe it's a problem to be addressed, I wish we had the full story and facts rather than being reduced to watching a few t***s float down the river.

 

[steve2]

Only 500 new houses they are planning 4000 near me with no mention of how they will be serviced. The talk is all about road links, not schools or hospitals and certainly not how to deal with upto 15000 peoples sewage.

 

[Bluenose]

Only 500 new houses they are planning 4000 near me with no mention of how they will be serviced. The talk is all about road links, not schools or hospitals and certainly not how to deal with upto 15000 peoples sewage.

Quite, same in the town where I live, the new build in the last decade has been massive.

 

[Molehill]

That is a lot of houses and before the waste water is considered there is the question of where the water is sourced? Will become even more interesting with global warming causing extreme weather conditions, such as droughts and dry reservoirs!!

The population are all crying out for more housing, all political parties chuck out figures for how many they will build (take the opposition party's numbers and add a nought to the end, that sounds better). Nobody will ever stand up in public and say "Sure we can build you 1000 new homes in this area, but these are the consequences you will have to pay for and address".

 

[steve2]

Essex is already short on water and import vast amounts via the great ouse system. The reason that at one time we had Zander in the Essex Stour.

 

[The bad one]

If I have got the age demographic right for this forum most of us won't live long enough to see the changes that we are all talking about and want to see happen. How grand children and great children might.

There's a lovely quote which goes like this "Old men who plant trees, the shade of which they will never sit in!" As someone who has planted 1000s over the last 40 years for no other reason than I like trees.

 

[Bluenose]

There's a lovely quote which goes like this "Old men who plant trees, the shade of which they will never sit in!" As someone who has planted 1000s over the last 40 years for no other reason than I like trees.

Treemendous.
I'm here all week etc

In other news, an 'expert' on C4 news a month or so back (can't remember his name) but he had chaired various climate change committees and so on, wasn't bigging up (or kicking) the govt, he came across very impartial, anyway he stated that within 30, years 95% of Vietnam could be underwater according to some models (or wtte).

The tipping point has well passed us by in my opinion.

Oh and if you want a giggle...

Fossil fuel firms sue governments across the world for £13bn as climate policies threaten profits

The majority of the cases are being brought under the Energy Charter Treaty, and are being hosted within the International Centre for The Settlement of Investment Disputes, a branch of the World Bank.

news.sky.com

 

[The bad one]

Wouldn't disagree that we are past the point of no return Eddie. Contentious point, but they'll only take notice when London is under 10 ft of water.

 

[steve2]

Wouldn't disagree that we are past the point of no return Eddie. Contentious point, but they'll only take notice when London is under 10 ft of water.

Let us not forget that if it was not for past climate changes we would not be here now. We would still be under 10 ft of ice. You could almost look on climate change as a natural thing.
The last big London flood was in 1928 and had nothing to do with climate change.

 

[nottskev]

There seem to have been some big population upheavals in and into Europe at the end of the last Ice Age about 14,500 years ago, involving waves of immigration, coming over here etc. And it's good for us that it got warmer.

But the whole point of the current understanding of THIS climate change is that it's not natural - it's anthropogenic ie caused by our industrial and agricultural practices and our use of fossil fuels and so on, in a relatively short time,. The last big London flood is neither here not there, really - it's the increasing frequency of extreme weather events in recent decades that matters, and the scale of changes, over a relatively short time, involving rising average temps, fires, flooding, melting ice, rising sea levels etc.

 

[bullet]

Aren't Anthropogenic things natural?
Is it not just humankind making its mark on the Millions of years of history of Planet Earth, of which we are part of?