Fish thieves sentenced

[Bill Cox]

Before i'm villafied in any way i will point out that i have no real problem with people taking an odd fish for the table from a free stretch of river. The problem as i see it is keeping it to that. Someone fishing all day and keeping a fish for his supper is on thing supplying the local chinese is another. How do you control it?? And then you have the problem of private waters being hit with the excuse of i was not aware it belonged to anyone.

 

[Chris Hammond ( RSPB ACA PAC}]

I'll get back to you Bill, I've got to dash out and snatch some bait for an evenings zed fishing right now.

 

[Nick Lynch]

It's all about personal experience. If I had to judge this on what I have seen on the bank then I'm sorry I do not agree with most of this.

Why, if immigrants do not know the law, do they hide fish and take them from the waters on the sly. Thats what i've experienced, and when they were confronted they deny everything and become defensive.

If you enter another country and don't know the laws, you find out. You make enquiries on whether it's legal or not. All it takes is a few questions to guys on the banks, it may just be ignorance, but why be ignorant to the country that's welcomed you? There is no excuse for breaking the law.

 

[Bill Cox]

Most immigrants know the laws nick and most abide by them, its not even the few taking a fish here and there for there own use, its the organised ones who are systematically stripping stretches of rivers and ponds on an industrial scale. this is not about eating its about money, plain and simple. I agree with others on here, anyone caught breaking any law be it fishing related or not should be automatically deported. END OF!!!!

 

[Nick Lynch]

Definitely Bill, if a law is broken we should use our prisons for our own, and deport immigrants back and report them.

But I must disagree with "its not even the few taking a fish here and there", how do you think it all starts. No matter what level, it's still a crime. How do you think water owners would feel if they knew someone was popping down every so often and taken a fish here and there, it's still theft, and needs dealing with in the propper manner. And how do you think we feel aftercaring for the fish we catch, only to see someone catch a nice fish and slip it into a carrier bag. Not imprest.

 

[Chris Hammond ( RSPB ACA PAC}]

I believe Bill that the whole premise of angling, or fishing for fun, hangs squarely on the public's concept of the sport. How many times have I seen the puzzled expression on someone's face when discovering that I put my catch back? Ok so they usually see it as mild eccentricity, but I think there's still a largeelement of people, outside of the radical nutters like PETA,who view the idea of CAR fishing as the unnecesary exploitation of fish.

However by and large, fish do stillattract a much less caring attitude from the non fishing public than most other creatures, even reptiles and amphibians, and it's just as well. The moment you begin to elevate fish to a level where they must be protected, as with the idea that they should no longer be fair game for the table, you begin to undermine that crucial 'indifference'.

A typical example of what I'm alluding to was to be seen on Ray Mears's programme a couple of nights back. He was talking through how, if pushed to survive, a person could feed themselves by trapping and fishing. He demonstrated how to make a deadfall trap for squirrels, and used a piece of wood as the bogus squirrel to show the trap working, he used his arm to show how a seabird could be snared on a life raft at sea, and he caught, cut up and cooked, live on camera, a small brook trout. He would nort have dared to kill and cook a cuddly squirrel on national TV for fear of the repercussions from the viewing public, but he didn't think twice about killing a fish.

What would be the reaction if we were to use a baited hook to catch mammals or birds? Luckily for us fish are fair game, and to try and remove that legitimate right to catch and eat fish, in my opinion, would be the beggining of our end.

Alongside that, how do we ban the taking of fish for food but remain able to square the idea of killing fish for bait?

i completely agree with your points about bag limits, but let's face it that's another discussion. The authorties don't police the current legislation, so I cant see them enforcing more sensible limits.

 

[Wiktor z Polski/Dr. Wodka]

Very interesting points chris,but I still dont agree with fish taking side of it.There is no food shortages in this country =no need to kill them,but i do understand your reasons.In my old days in poland we use to take fish for the table because there was not much food around in the shops so it was very nice dinner addition then.That's why many immigrants( not just from Easter counties), eat them,they just use to do it.Never less I dont want this thread to turn into another kicking immigrants for whatever bad is happening in this country .I need to remind people that the bigest losses of fish are done(as been said on this thread before) by fish and chips suppliers and tons of fish lost by polluters, this I think is much bigger problem then few immigrants taking some fish for dinner.

Me being polish roots I can honestly say that I dont know and never see any polish people taking fish from water for dinner or other purposes.Please dont blame immigrants for everything bad is happening in this country.They are always easy target for any bnp like minded and they often cant defend themself.

 

[Chris Hammond ( RSPB ACA PAC}]

There's never been a shortage of food in this country during my lifetime Wicktor. I don't think there's ever been a shortage of coarse fish either. Of course there are private stocks of fish that should not be taken for food, but, although I'm no great fan of fish, I cant think of anything more natural than being able to catch and eat your own food. I pray we'll never see a time where a man cannot eat wild food, be it plant, fish, fowl or animal meat.

In fact I think there's something quite noble about being prepared to occasionally catch, prepare and eat food yourself.

I can understandother havingreservations. The trouble is there are always going to be people who over exploit such resources or use them for financial gain, as in the case of the aforementioned thieves. And I suppose the easiest solution would be a blanket ban on the taking of coarse fish for the table, but for the reasons I've given earlier I think it would be a huge own goal on our behalf.

In a utopian world I'd like to see a strictbag limit on free stretches of river etc of say just a single fish per day, possibly even a single fish per week. And sensible limits on the individual sizes of fish. For instance I'd personally put a limit on pike of one fish per day, where legitimate and a maximum fish size of around five or six pounds (Sorry I've no idea of the kilos.) The chances of such legislation being implemented andrigorously enforced by the water authorities though is probably nil.

It's a thorny subject, and I don't doubt my views are in the minority, but I'm absolutely convinced that a total ban would be extremely detrimental to the longevity of catch-and-release angling.

 

[Chris Hammond ( RSPB ACA PAC}]

Something else worth bearing in mind I think is that although we anglers as a collective sometimes feel we are a very big percentage of the population, the truth is, in purely numerical terms, we really aren't. The rather sad attitudes being exporessedtowards immigrants and their fish eating culture, no matter how valid, could very easily serve to villify usin the eyes ofwhat is undoubtedly a largely people-tolerant nation.

I don't think the aversion to foreign nationals by the angling communityis completely unwarranted, in terms of their impact on our fish stocks, butthe taking offish for foodwon't neccesarily be perceived as such a heinous crime by the greater majority of the populus. It wont help our cause to be considered as cranks andbigots by the general public.

 

[Wiktor z Polski/Dr. Wodka]

I`m coming from veg site of view.Nothing should be killed for food as we in this country have enough other food ,no need to kill at all. I`m with you on point that meat eaters should go and catch the prey himself, prepare and eat fresh,some magic in it .There is a logic and that's the nature call or was to respect the life being,now its most forgotten but i don't want to go into my veg ideas and philosophy of live.that is for some other thred on fm perhaps.I have to say -- i`m not fighting against meat eaters, it is only my choice and mine point of view.i hope I did not offend anybody.

Just wonder how many vegs are fishing?/forum/smilies/eye_rolling_smiley.gif

 

[Chris Hammond ( RSPB ACA PAC}]

Fully respect your point of view Wicktor, but I didn't design nature. We're omnivores naturally, not herbivores. /forum/smilies/big_smile_smiley.gif

 

[Wiktor z Polski/Dr. Wodka]

<blockquote class=quoteheader>Chris Hammond ( SAA, RSPB ACA) wrote (see)</blockquote><blockquote class=quote>Fully respect your point of view Wicktor, but I didn't design nature. We're omnivores naturally, not herbivores. /forum/smilies/big_smile_smiley.gif</blockquote>

Sorry dont understand this 2 words

Wiktor

 

[Colin Brett]

Neither does Chris /forum/smilies/wink_smiley.gif

 

[Bill Cox]

I think basicly he's saying we were designed to live on mostly meat with various herbs and minerals when the body felt it was needed. Not to survive purely on vegetation. not to say we couldn't survive on it but its not natural as to how we evolved. We could survive on an intrevenously injected cocktail of chemicals and protiens but it would not make it natural.

Chris i was not really advocating bag limits of any sort as in an earlier post i make the point that it is not enforsable or controllable. merely saying on free water in an ideal world the odd fish would not harm the stocks. but as i said the organised gangs would soon exploit the situation for monetery gain. I see your arguement against a total ban though but i doubt the public would see it as you suspect.

 

[Gorgeous Bob Bradford]

I bailiff a stretch of the river Waveney just outside a small town called Beccles, my club www.bctac.co.uk holds the fishing rights for this stretch, over the past 18 months Eastern Europeans have been guilty of catching and killingBream,Perch and Pike from our waters, theycamp out over night ,sometimes in groups of 6 men or more, my club have plenty of signs for people to read ,telling them it is private water and where a club card or day ticket can be purchased, my club runs a strict catch and release policy, ABSOLUTELY NO FISH ARE TO BE TAKEN FROM IT'S WATERS.

Now I will tell you of my own experiences over this summer, my first summer of being a voluntary bailiff.

I have caught red handed several Eastern Europeans fishing illegally, using illegal equipment, with no rod licences and no club book or day ticket, they have tried to systematically remove the natural stocks of fish, and in the wake of that ,and to add insult to injury, they leave their filth strewn on the river bank where they camp, empty tins of tuna,corn and beer, cigarette packets and empty food packets,these items are all printed in a foreign language,human excrement and toilet paper are another delightful by- product of their activities.

Without exception, all of the Eastern Europeans I have challenged use the "ignorant of the law" ploy or "ignorant of the fact the river is private", they do themselves no favours whatsoever, their behaviour is disrespectful and selfish, tinged with complete arrogance,itshows , to me at least, they have no pride in being over here, frankly, as human beings go, they are an appalling example of theirplace of birth.

 

[tinca steve]

Can anybody tell me why an angler fishing correctly but without a licence when caught was fined £100 plus costs, and that was with one rod. When these two people
( there was 4 caught)were caught there was at least 3 rods being used going by the pictures I have seen, as dead lines. Sorry to say it but I personally think British Law SUCKS ! !

And I always believed ignorance of the law was no excuse --silly me .

 

[wayne brooks]

also i had to explain why my nephew on his first ever fishing trip had to step over empty tins of sweetcorn and human excrement that the immigrants left behind. he knew it was what 'naughty people' did and he is four tomorrow!

if he can get it surely the immigrants know it's wrong?

 

[Nick Lynch]

<blockquote class=quoteheader>wayne brooks wrote (see)</blockquote><blockquote class=quote>

also i had to explain why my nephew on his first ever fishing trip had to step over empty tins of sweetcorn and human excrement that the immigrants left behind. he knew it was what 'naughty people' did and he is four tomorrow!

if he can get it surely the immigrants know it's wrong?</blockquote>


I'm sorry he had to see it, but thats the way it is. some immigrants don't abide to the rules and laws, and come to think ofit some of our own don't either.

They do get it, but have no respect for the country. That's the problem, respect, not that they don't know the laws. Surely in Poland, Turkey, Slovakia etc they cannot treatnature like this. When you travelabroad you never see litter everywhere, and you'd never leavethink oflittering.

 

[ANDY SKI]

<blockquote class=quoteheader>wayne brooks wrote (see)</blockquote><blockquote class=quote>

also i had to explain why my nephew on his first ever fishing trip had to step over empty tins of sweetcorn and human excrement that the immigrants left behind. he knew it was what 'naughty people' did and he is four tomorrow!

if he can get it surely the immigrants know it's wrong?</blockquote>and how exactly did you know immigrants left it??

 

[Wiktor z Polski/Dr. Wodka]

It must have been eastern European colour/forum/smilies/wink_smiley.gif.I have seen mine plenty of time in the toilet, its soooo diffrent to eanglish one !