Hook sharpening....
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markcw
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Bet you need counselling after reading the replies on here ?
seth49
Well-known member
So I watched the video and what Adam Penning says does make allot of sense, the reason being that alot of it is just common sense – basically that a thinner sharper point will penetrate in further when a fish initially pricks itself & be harder to shake out. I don’t think there is anything too earth shattering about that.
I am glad he made reference a number of times to the point I made in my earlier post which was about when you sharpen a hook you are taking off the protective coating and making that hook more prone to corrosion which will dull the points anyway. He even made mention that they stopped sharpening their hooks on one particularly silty lake as the corrosion afterwards was damaging the filed hook points.
Second if you consider what Adam Penning is basically doing by sharpening his hooks - as he even says himself, he is trying to create a slower taper away from the hook point to reduce any step between the hook point and the bend were the wire fattens out to its full gauge. The idea being that with a long slow smooth taper the point will nick in further when a fish initially pricks itself. The reality however is that the same could be achieved by simply using a thinner wire gauged hook. Would that mean it would be a weaker hook ?...that depends on how weak the sharpened /filed area of his hook is…
I must say I found it a bit strange that he so easily dismissed straight pointed hooks which even by his own admission (may) offer a slight advantage with initially pricking the fish as he considers beaked points stay in better. Yet he then spends the rest of the video telling us how to sharpen a beaked hook to minute perfection with the aim to help it initially prick and stay in better!!!!
…I could not help but think that surely if you are so obsessed with maximizing how the hook initially pricks & stays in you would be sharpening straight pointed hooks rather than beaked ones ?
Finally I think its fair to say that although his sharpened hooks will be super sharp and performant, literally anything could damage them. He made the point about not letting the lead touch bottom if you miscast but even dragging it through a bit of week on the retrieve could mess up the points.
For that reason at the end of the day what he is doing will offer an advantage but for the very specific type of angling he is doing which is targeting very large Carp on difficult venues were you are laying traps and waiting a long time between bites. Its not going to be very relevant or practical for the majority of anglers out there.
Still an interesting video however from an angler who has always had a knack of being able to explain things very clearly & well. The part about lines was good as well.
I am glad he made reference a number of times to the point I made in my earlier post which was about when you sharpen a hook you are taking off the protective coating and making that hook more prone to corrosion which will dull the points anyway. He even made mention that they stopped sharpening their hooks on one particularly silty lake as the corrosion afterwards was damaging the filed hook points.
Second if you consider what Adam Penning is basically doing by sharpening his hooks - as he even says himself, he is trying to create a slower taper away from the hook point to reduce any step between the hook point and the bend were the wire fattens out to its full gauge. The idea being that with a long slow smooth taper the point will nick in further when a fish initially pricks itself. The reality however is that the same could be achieved by simply using a thinner wire gauged hook. Would that mean it would be a weaker hook ?...that depends on how weak the sharpened /filed area of his hook is…
I must say I found it a bit strange that he so easily dismissed straight pointed hooks which even by his own admission (may) offer a slight advantage with initially pricking the fish as he considers beaked points stay in better. Yet he then spends the rest of the video telling us how to sharpen a beaked hook to minute perfection with the aim to help it initially prick and stay in better!!!!
…I could not help but think that surely if you are so obsessed with maximizing how the hook initially pricks & stays in you would be sharpening straight pointed hooks rather than beaked ones ?
Finally I think its fair to say that although his sharpened hooks will be super sharp and performant, literally anything could damage them. He made the point about not letting the lead touch bottom if you miscast but even dragging it through a bit of week on the retrieve could mess up the points.
For that reason at the end of the day what he is doing will offer an advantage but for the very specific type of angling he is doing which is targeting very large Carp on difficult venues were you are laying traps and waiting a long time between bites. Its not going to be very relevant or practical for the majority of anglers out there.
Still an interesting video however from an angler who has always had a knack of being able to explain things very clearly & well. The part about lines was good as well.
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The anwser I would say is yes...get it right and you potentially have a "better" hook.
....but to find that balance is an inexact science...basically your trying to find that sweet spot by shaving bits of metal off a hook point with a hand held file & without any precise measuring & just using an eye glass.
Experience will help but the room for error is huge plus you have a more fragile hook that needs to be given alot of care & attention afterwards which most anglers wont do.
For that reason I would say for 99% of anglers using a good hook out of the packet and not messing with it is the safest solution.
....but to find that balance is an inexact science...basically your trying to find that sweet spot by shaving bits of metal off a hook point with a hand held file & without any precise measuring & just using an eye glass.
Experience will help but the room for error is huge plus you have a more fragile hook that needs to be given alot of care & attention afterwards which most anglers wont do.
For that reason I would say for 99% of anglers using a good hook out of the packet and not messing with it is the safest solution.
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I worked in engineering all my life,I can read from a rule if my work was within a quarter of a millimetre tolerance,I had a supervisor telling me that I couldn't do that with a rule,I told him to go and check my work with a digital vernier,he came back shaking his head saying how the hell could I get something within 0.1mm with a rule,I believe the metal needs tapering from the barb to a point 2/3mm from the point,so taking half the metal he did off should barely weaken the hook at all and certainly not in a fish losing sense....
Like I said ..for 99% of anglers I would not recommend it .. 
That said if I was fishing for Barbel over a gravel bottom in a river which you seem to enjoy then I recon its a non starter...your going to be filing and typing on new hooks all day long.
That said if I was fishing for Barbel over a gravel bottom in a river which you seem to enjoy then I recon its a non starter...your going to be filing and typing on new hooks all day long.
The other thing is that to my mind with what he is trying to achieve i.e get a hook to penetrate in further and so make it more difficult to shake out …I think the filed section of hook should extend below the barb and the barb should be as tiny as possible. There is almost a case to try and create a minute second barb right close to the hook point…now if THAT penetrates it will make it extremely difficult for a sitting fish shaking its head on the spot to rid itself of the hook.
As an aside, if we are considering anti eject setups, which is what his setup basically is, then a different way to approach this is with the use of bristles or false “hooks” in the setup. Bristle rigs (stiff bits of mono setup in a reversed umbrealla/cone shape pointing back up the hook) can make it difficult for a fish to eject once its in its mouth. A bit like a wine bottle minnow trap concept. Easy to get in ..not so easy to get out.
The downside is that they are fiddly and impractical but I think there is a lot of scope for those with an inventive nature.
As an aside, if we are considering anti eject setups, which is what his setup basically is, then a different way to approach this is with the use of bristles or false “hooks” in the setup. Bristle rigs (stiff bits of mono setup in a reversed umbrealla/cone shape pointing back up the hook) can make it difficult for a fish to eject once its in its mouth. A bit like a wine bottle minnow trap concept. Easy to get in ..not so easy to get out.
The downside is that they are fiddly and impractical but I think there is a lot of scope for those with an inventive nature.
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I've watched a few other hook sharpening videos this morning,none as good as Penning's,but a very good point was made in one of them,how this guy often hears anglers saying they have to use 4-5oz leads to affect self hooking,Penning rarely uses more than 2 to 2.5ozs,because of his hooks....
markcw
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I rarely use more than 8g inline olivette when fishing straight lead on canal or some commies because of my hooks ?
Jim Gibbinson was a great believer in using small leads and there was a school of thought that light leads also « travelled » more easily with the fish as it tried to eject the rig rather than give a fixed point for the fish to pull the hook point away from it.
That said I think the weight of the lead is often arbitrary anyway as there is enough resistance in many setups to set the hook. Even with running rigs the takes can be screamers.
rayner
Well-known member
Alan, I did watch Penning sharpening hooks and yes I understand why. I did find it not needed in my fishing.
I only use small hooks so sharpening is not needed. If I was using sea type hooks for carp I perhaps would need to think about it.
I only use small hooks so sharpening is not needed. If I was using sea type hooks for carp I perhaps would need to think about it.
rayner
Well-known member
Not really. I know why Penning sharpens his hooks, I suppose I would find it interesting if I indeed needed to sharpen my hooks. I don't so interesting doesn't come into it. If you had not recommended me to watch I certainly would not have bothered, I couldn't care less about how carp perform underwater. That does not interest me either. A little better than watching paint dry, not much better though.
I made it easier by spinning on to watch him with his file.
I made it easier by spinning on to watch him with his file.