Hooks for Bread Flake.....

[Notts Michael.]

Hello all,
I wondered what size, make and type/pattern of hook people would recommend for fishing squeezed on bread flake for chub on a small river, I have some Korda Mixa size 8 hooks which should do the job, but would like to get others thoughts on what they rate as ideal hooks for bread.

Cheers - Michael.

 

[nottskev]

Hi Michael.
We fish the same small river. Likely to catch the same chub at some point as there aren't exactly lots. Those Korda hooks would do fine. I've got some myself in 8. They are a pretty beefy hook, being aimed at carp. My favourites on that river for chub/bread are these Kamasan ones which contrive to be fairly fine in appearance but more than strong enough for the chub

 

[Notts Michael.]

Thanks Kev.
The Mixa hooks do perhaps look rather beefy as you say, for what will be under/up to 4lb chub at best, the shank looks a little longer on those Kamasans too compared to the Korda's which may be a bit better for pinching the bread on.

 

[RMNDIL]

I must admit that for bread I have a thing about using Nickel hooks. For chub I use B611 which, coincidentally, are just under the wire gauge of the B983 mentioned (size 10's B983 = 0.58mm B611 = 0.55mm). It's spade end though. But I have had plenty of good chub to big 6's on them on the Thames. Not hook & hold situations though.

 

[Philip]

My go to hook for chubbing with Bread is the Drennan Specimen. Its exactly the same pattern as the Super Specialist but in a lighter wire gauge.

I think its easy to overthink hooks. These have straight point, straight eye, medium gape, medium shank, micro barb. slight offset...basically just a good all round hook and still less than £2 for 10.

 

[Notts Michael.]

Philip.. Can I ask what size in that hook type would you use for pinching on bread flake for chub?

 

[Philip]

Hi Mike, 95% of the time it will be a size 8 for Chub & I use the same hook for both ledgering or trotting.

Keep in mind I am usually trying to target bigger fish rather than bag up on smaller ones.

As an aside I use the size 10 in that pattern for most of my Roaching.

 

[RMNDIL]

My go to hook for chubbing with Bread is the Drennan Specimen. Its exactly the same pattern as the Super Specialist but in a lighter wire gauge.

Actually they are quite different hooks. However whatever works works.

 

[nottskev]

I must admit that for bread I have a thing about using Nickel hooks. For chub I use B611 which, coincidentally, are just under the wire gauge of the B983 mentioned (size 10's B983 = 0.58mm B611 = 0.55mm). It's spade end though. But I have had plenty of good chub to big 6's on them on the Thames. Not hook & hold situations though.

Funny you should mention those. I still have dozens of these hooks. They date back 20 years to when the Derbyshire Derwent last had plenty of chub and I used to drive down 8o miles from the northwest to fish a stretch above Derby co-owned by Warrington AA. I used these hooks with a small Drennan cage feeder, liquidised bread and flake for far-side feature swims. My best morning involved 26 chub mostly 4lb and over. Sadly, since I moved down here the most I've ever managed in a session is 4, and I've given up my Derwent club cards. There was good barbel fishing, too, but you're much more likely to blank for them now.

 

[Philip]

Actually they are quite different hooks. However whatever works works.

I dont know what patterns your thinking of but as i had both in the car with me you can see ithey are the same and its just the wire gauge thats differnt. ..but as you say whatever works.

 

[keora]

I use Drennan Specimen hooks size ten.

As for bait, although I've tried more expensive crusty farmhouse type loaves, cheap sliced white bread stays on the hook better.

I fish a small river and it's worth using a small 15 gm open mesh swimfeeder. For the filling I mix brown crumb with water and a few little bits of bread.

 

[The bad one]

I'm with Notts Kev Kamasan B983 but in size 6. Had many big chub to 6 12. Even a few barbel to low doubles on them. Whilst Drennan's are a good hook, I find the Stright points don't hook as well as a beaked hooks when fishing bread on the hook.

 

[RMNDIL]

I dont know what patterns your thinking of but as i had both in the car with me you can see ithey are the same and its just the wire gauge thats differnt. ..but as you say whatever works.

View attachment 23439

Super Specialist (4552) v Specimen (1532) - same applies to barbless versions (4553 v 1542).

I had a rummage. See here as it might show the differences a little better. SS left and SP right. Note gape, shank, point. Also they have different wire gauges (very obvious here) and different types/grades of wire used. They are not the same hooks with different names but created differently and use their own different forming tools etc. But, both do a good job. Personally I always use S/S as they are stronger size for size and, for me, a better gape & shank. The point length helps as well. No doubt if I only had SP then I could use them with no problems whatsoever anyway. It's probably what I'm used to.

 

[Philip]

Your picture (and mine before) show basically the same hook in a different wire gauge. The shape, gape, shank, point and eye being the same. The Super specialists in the thicker/stronger wire.

Anyway a picture as they say paints a thousand words so we can just leave it to people to decide for themselves. Both imo are excellent hooks. I use the SS for the heavy stuff and the Specimens for a little more subtlety.

 

[RMNDIL]

Your picture (and mine before) show basically the same hook in a different wire gauge. The shape, gape, shank, point and eye being the same.

Except ....they're not the same and are not the same hook. There are differences as I have highlighted (wire thickness and type/grade of wire are only 2). Trust me, I've been buying them and working with the same original Japanese factory making them both for over 30 years. Forming molds are different.

It's similar to some others. E.G. many (most) people think/thought Kamasan B520 was the same hook as Drennan Carbon Match (original 4206 not the existing which is totally different to both) but they weren't/aren't. People needed to look carefully (or not depending on the hooks being compared) to see. Dave Harrell was very good at this. Very fussy on hooks.

 

[Philip]

Interesting stuff.

What are these other differences ? Please go into big detail especially around the shape, gape, shank, point, eye.

Having used both for a long time i am very intrigued.

 

[RMNDIL]

Previous photos show the differences on those but try another here. The differences are very obvious. Specimen and Super Specialists are families of hooks. Created independently. Produced separately. Differences vary across the families.

I'd hate someone who always buys & uses Super Specialist to buy Specimen (or vice versa) thinking they are the same (except wire) and be disappointed.

 

[Philip]

While I do not doubt what you say about different moulds and families I took another look at both hooks in the flesh and I am struggling to to see a difference and certainly nothing I would describe as "very obvious".

In your massivly magnifed photo in the post above it appears (for example) the hook on the right possibly has a very slightly larger shank & gape. However even the angle of the camera can distort things with tiny details like this. Also its important to note that both hooks are offset to the left so that can also distort a image as the hooks dont lie perfectly flat.

Take a look at the photos below. I have attempted to compare shank and gape. Perhaps I am blind but I cannot see a "very obvious" difference even in this massivly magnified photo.

Also important to note at this level of detail even the SAME hooks varied very slightly ..some of the hooks from the same packet having very slightly more barb for example. Nothing will ever be -exactly- the same

Again I stress I do not doubt what you say about them being differnt models but from a practical angling point of view -at least for me- I will continue to see them as basically the "same" hook in different Strengths/wire guages & as I said a few posts back..a picture paints a thousand words so people can decide for themselves.

 

[RMNDIL]

While I do not doubt what you say about different moulds and families I took another look at both hooks in the flesh and I am struggling to to see a difference and certainly nothing I would describe as "very obvious".

In your massivly magnifed photo in the post above it appears (for example) the hook on the right possibly has a very slightly larger shank & gape. However even the angle of the camera can distort things with tiny details like this. Also its important to note that both hooks are offset to the left so that can also distort a image as the hooks dont lie perfectly flat.

Take a look at the photos below. I have attempted to compare shank and gape. Perhaps I am blind but I cannot see a "very obvious" difference even in this massivly magnified photo.

Also important to note at this level of detail even the SAME hooks varied very slightly ..some of the hooks from the same packet having very slightly more barb for example. Nothing will ever be -exactly- the same

Again I stress I do not doubt what you say about them being differnt models but from a practical angling point of view -at least for me- I will continue to see them as basically the "same" hook in different Strengths/wire guages & as I said a few posts back..a picture paints a thousand words so people can decide for themselves.


View attachment 23681View attachment 23683

As I said differences vary across the families and sizes within the families. On these two families the differences get more and more obvious (bigger) as you get smaller. The photo I last posted is genuine. What you see is actually what they are in the flesh. To me - probably because I am used to looking at the damn things - the differences are marked and obvious (and in the last photo I posted they really are very, very obvious). Not so obvious to others. I had someone tell me once that a new reel being created was the SAME as a reel Angling Direct were already selling.................even though one was front drag and the other rear drag (and totally different anyway).

The families are independent even if some sizes have similarities (which many hooks do). So, for example, there is no way you could ask the Japanese to make a range of S/S using the forming tools for SP. That would be just mad.

 

[peterjg]

For bread flake I use Kamasan B420 hooks.