Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

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FishingMagic

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Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

This is a dedicated thread for discussing article: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

Eddie Benham has produced top class evidence from top class geological and botanical authorities which completely explodes the Carp Society's denunciation of Martin Gay's historical carp captures back in 1989-90.


http://www.fishingmagic.com/news_ev...-s-historic-carp-captures-time-to-decide.html

files.php
 

geoffmaynard

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Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

It is well researched, painstaking and overwhelming evidence that the Carp Society got it very wrong. But that's all it is, or will ever be - the magnitude of the sh1t-slinging volume ensured that some would stick and nobody will ever be able to clean it all off...
 

tonybull

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Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

This is from one of the earliest posts on the first thread from someone who only posted once and never posted since

I grew up in Chelmsford and it was well rumoured locally at the time that Martin's fish came from Hanningfield Reservior, a 600 acre trout lake that can be seen from the road, in fact the road pretty much runs alongside it all the way round (google map it!). Back in the early nineties I used to going canoeing there and regularly saw huge carp crash out that would break most people's PB. I also remember a photo in the Essex Chronicle in the late 80's of a carp (I think around 30lb) landed by a fly fisherman there. This doesn't prove that Martin's fish is British, but carp definitely resided there at the time, it was close to where Martin lived, it wasn't fished by carp anglers (and to my knowledge still isn't) and could easily have produced an uncaught 50lber - even back then!

and this

This is what Chris Yates had to say.
“I’m fed up with some of the carp anglers of today, although some are very nice. But I would certainly like to see Martin Gay beat the carp record. His large common carp is an absolutely genuine British capture, and I hope he returns to the old private reservoir where it was caught to catch an even bigger one”
 

thecrow

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Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

Well that was a lot of work to put that article together and for what? no answers to questions I was promised answers to, just more (this time more scientific) put downs of the CS and PS. Nothing about why the committee members that saw the photographs before they were messed with thought the water was English.

I would have thought that there have been enough posts in the other thread to give an inkling that posters are not at all interested in what was said by the CS or PS, not then not now not ever, its where these fish were caught that most if not all posters have been interested in, I cannot see any overwhelming evidence in any of the article of where those fish were caught and before I am accused of skimming over it I have read it twice before deciding to post a reply.

Early in the other thread I said that I believed that a possible reason for the water being kept secret was because the water was private, fishing was not allowed there and MG had poached it, the last paragraph in the piece sums that up for me I reproduce it below.

This is what Chris Yates had to say.

“I’m fed up with some of the carp anglers of today, although some are very nice. But I would certainly like to see Martin Gay beat the carp record. His large common carp is an absolutely genuine British capture, and I hope he returns to the old private reservoir where it was caught to catch an even bigger one


The statement above is something that has been newly introduced into this discussion, if it had been in the original then I would have thought even more that the photographs were altered not to protect any fish but to protect the angler from being accused of catching them where fishing was not allowed, no wonder the committee members thought the water was English, it was, just not one where angling was allowed. If this is not true then Mr Yates has only to come to this forum and name the "private reservoir " where he believes the fish were caught.

I now believe that MG hated the modern Carp scene so much that when he caught these fish he just could not stop himself using them to rub their noses into the fact that he without any of the modern methods had managed to catch a huge and momentous catch of Carp. I also believe that this is the reason for publishing accounts of the captures he just couldn't help himself and when he was accused of catching them elsewhere he couldn't come clean with where the water was and clear his name as the illusion had gone to far for him to stop the rolling snowball that was getting bigger and bigger.

This for me is a prime example of what can happen when an angler doesn't like the way that other anglers fish, the extremes that some will go to in order to show that their way is the right way, it wasn't exclusive to MG or those far off days, it hasn't stopped its happening today and always will until all anglers understand that they don't have to like how an angler fishes but that as long as the fish are coming to no harm they have the right to fish in a manner that they enjoy.

This is my one and only post on this thread, there is no point in continuing, there is nothing more that will convince me that what I now believe happened did happen, please Eddie and Cliff just let it go, there is no overwhelming evidence.

---------- Post added at 20:31 ---------- Previous post was at 20:28 ----------

This is from one of the earliest posts on the first thread from someone who only posted once and never posted since

I grew up in Chelmsford and it was well rumoured locally at the time that Martin's fish came from Hanningfield Reservior, a 600 acre trout lake that can be seen from the road, in fact the road pretty much runs alongside it all the way round (google map it!). Back in the early nineties I used to going canoeing there and regularly saw huge carp crash out that would break most people's PB. I also remember a photo in the Essex Chronicle in the late 80's of a carp (I think around 30lb) landed by a fly fisherman there. This doesn't prove that Martin's fish is British, but carp definitely resided there at the time, it was close to where Martin lived, it wasn't fished by carp anglers (and to my knowledge still isn't) and could easily have produced an uncaught 50lber - even back then!

and this

This is what Chris Yates had to say.
“I’m fed up with some of the carp anglers of today, although some are very nice. But I would certainly like to see Martin Gay beat the carp record. His large common carp is an absolutely genuine British capture, and I hope he returns to the old private reservoir where it was caught to catch an even bigger one”

Sorry to repeat some of your post Tony, you must have posted while I was typing.
 

geoffmaynard

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Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

I'm sure a lot of people considered Hanningfield as a possible - but it's heavily fished by some top anglers, surely at least one of whom would have sussed it.
 

bennygesserit

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Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

Eddie have you been in contact with Martin's family in Canada
As has been said all along disproving the Paul Selmam case isn't meaningful any more it seems he was on a wind up
Eddie and Cliff complain that forum members are not reading things properly but it seems they are not listening to peoples questions

Have you contacted Martins family in Canada
 

Cliff Hatton

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Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

Benny: I think your description of Mr Selman's game as a 'wind-up' somewhat inadequate.

No, neither of has contacted Martin's family. We wouldn't know how to. It's a shame that James has decided to duck out at this stage....
 

bennygesserit

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Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

Benny: I think your description of Mr Selman's game as a 'wind-up' somewhat inadequate.

No, neither of has contacted Martin's family. We wouldn't know how to. It's a shame that James has decided to duck out at this stage....

Cliff do you or Eddie honestly have no idea why James has left ?
 

Cliff Hatton

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Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

I have an idea, Benny.
 

bennygesserit

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Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

I have an idea, Benny...

Have you or Eddie been in contact with James

---------- Post added at 23:20 ---------- Previous post was at 23:10 ----------

Have you or Eddie been in contact with James
What form did that contact take and how often was it
Have you been emailing him ?

---------- Post added at 23:21 ---------- Previous post was at 23:20 ----------

You are such an advocate of honesty whynot reveal the number of times and manner in which you have contacted James
 
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Cliff Hatton

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Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

You'd know if we had, Benny;this is the only medium.

I never understood this from JamesN:

"...and spoken about me negatively to others behind my back to match their own agenda's which caused great embarrassment for me and my family"

I've thought about this and I cannot see how the 'N' family might be embarrassed, 4,000 miles away and wholly anonymous - to fishingmagicians at least. JamesN's profile is blank. We know nothing about him.
 

Cliff Hatton

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Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

Benny...let's not start an unnecessary counter-thread: neither Eddie or myself has been in contact with JamesN in recent times. I believe Eddie was in contact with him long ago but I don't recall contacting him myself. He obviously sees it as prudent to leave the scene.


This post was edited having given it some more thought after 9 long hours editing and constructing! It answers Benny's question below.
 

bennygesserit

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Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

So honestly neither you or Eddie Haas emailed him and that's your honest answer
 

Cliff Hatton

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Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

See previous post from me, Benny.

Benny:Eddie spent an enormous amount of time on his article and so did I. It has exposed the nonsense about Canada and is an important piece in this context.
Unless you can quickly explain your confusing and seemingly irrelevant questioning, Benny, I might be compelled to curtail your posts. Tell us where you're going with this please. As editor, I am keen to stick to the salient points in order to maintain an interesting and, yes, entertaining exchange of viewpoints.
 

bennygesserit

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Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

See previous post from me, Benny.

So backtracking

---------- Post added at 00:24 ---------- Previous post was at 00:15 ----------

Benny...let's not start an unnecessary counter-thread: neither Eddie or myself has been in contact with JamesN in recent times. I believe Eddie was in contact with him long ago but I don't recall contacting him myself. He obviously sees it as prudent to leave the scene.


This post was edited having given it some more thought after 9 long hours editing and constructing! It answers Benny's question below.

what is long ago ?
 

Philip

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Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

I am very interested in Bennys questions which are extreamly relevant and i would request no editorial influence is applied.

In addition i would like to know if Yvonne Gay is aware of these articles and if she has copies of all the resulting threads.


Her late husband and direct family are being spoken about and she has a right to know.

Finally why was the presence of kayaks/canoes/boats stacked up in the background of the photos not explored in detail as this is far more relevant in helping to determine the location than a geology excercise.
 

bennygesserit

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Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

I am very interested in Bennys questions which are extreamly relevant and i would request no editorial influence is applied.

In addition i would like to know if Yvonne Gay is aware of these articles and if she has copies of all the resulting threads.


Her late husband and direct family are being spoken about and she has a right to know.

Finally why was the presence of kayaks/canoes/boats stacked up in the background of the photos not explored in detail as this is far more relevant in helping to determine the location than a geology excercise.

I think Cliff is far too quick on the delete button , if one applied the same rules to other threads then half the posts would disappear , its an abuse of the privilege and only serves to weaken his case if it cannot withstand any questioning.

For the array of eminent anglers confirming the lake was British there appear to be an equal number who are saying that Martin directly told them it was Canadian.

I am not sure the photos would prove much but they might , on another forum Cliff offers the thought that there might be canoes stacked in the background ( we do have canoes in the UK )

So in the middle of all this James appears and very consistently tells the same story he told on another forum a while ago and also conducts himself in a very compelling manner - never claiming that the fish in the photograph was Canadian only that there was a Canadian fish !

So James's story is very relevant and may offer a definite proof if Martin's Canadian family confirm that he fished there , I suspect that James has been "scared off" and wants nothing much to do with this any more. Still his posts are convincing , especially in the very open manner in which they are written.

Part of my Job used to be solving IT network faults , still is sometimes , the worst fault you can have is when two things go wrong at the same time because things dont follow any logical pattern , when you finally unearth the root cause everything suddenly becomes de-mystified.

Certainly a number of things have happened in this case , which is why I find it so fascinating , maybe Martin did fish in Canada but the fish in the shot is British , that explanation would certainly fit with all those eminent anglers having different views.

Those eminent anglers include Robin Monday who appears to have been Martin's usual fishing partner - who better to ask than him ?

Anyway I don't like having my posts deleted simply because they disagree with the OP I think the puzzle will always remain unsolved.
 
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Michael Loveridge 2

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Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

Phillip ... why are you so interested in , Canoes , kayaks ?
Eddie I believe already said he was not sure what it was 'Stacked up ' lakes all over the country have such craft and more , surely comments on the huge amount of qualified researched information supplied by Eddie should be more of an interest.
It looks to me a very strong case this huge haul of common Carp came from the UK
Most of the comments made by the CS in the early 90's appear to have no foundation.
There's never going to be 100% proof ..... but the amount of information put forward by Cliff and Eddie makes a very likely case ...
I don't understand why more readers of this long long thread have not reached this conclusion .
I understand fully why Martin did what he did , not sure he did it the right why .
Seasons greetings to all .
 
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