Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

[paul1_]

Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

Paul Selman has responded today on his forum with an array of anglers whose view it is that the fish were Canadian but as far as I can see not one claims to have spoken directly to Martin , therefore it seems they are simply expressing a belief not confirming a fact.

I would like to point out Chris Ball, Derek Stritton and Kevin Clifford all spoke to Martin directly as clearly stated in their contributions on the FW forum posted today. As did Robin Monday, Alan Smith, myself etc etc.
The carp were caught in Canada.

 

[bennygesserit]

Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

I would like to point out Chris Ball, Derek Stritton and Kevin Clifford all spoke to Martin directly as clearly stated in their contributions on the FW forum posted today. As did Robin Monday, Alan Smith, myself etc etc.
The carp were caught in Canada.

Paul , thanks for replying , I didn't get that myself from reading the article but just to clarify you are saying that all those you mention , including yourself , were told directly by Martin that the fish was caught in Canada.

---------- Post added at 22:43 ---------- Previous post was at 22:41 ----------

Reading this extract from Kevin Clifford

I think it was Coarse Angler and not Angling magazine, but having spoken to Martin at the time my gut feeling was what Derek has outlined. He got himself in a bit of a hole over a public argument with (I think) Eric Hodson by making a claim and then dug himself deeper into it. As Derek rightly says, that doesn't make Martin a bad person, and his contribution to angling was significant. All of us, I'm sure, make mistakes and have regrets. It's time this one was put where it belongs - well and truly to bed.

Its not clear to me hence me asking you to clarify unless I have missed something it is quite a long thread

---------- Post added at 23:16 ---------- Previous post was at 22:43 ----------

I simply can't find anyone in the fishing warehouse thread who assert directly and clearly that Martin told them , personally , that he caught the fish in Canada.

 

[The bad one]

Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

"bit of a hole over a public argument with (I think) Eric Hodson by making a claim and then dug himself deeper into it" I think Kevin's mistaken about this.

And for this reason, Eric was a friend of both mine and the Monk's and around the time of this blowing up we'd pick him up from his home in Dronsfield where he live once every 3 months, and travel to the SACG meetings with him. In the hour or so it took to get to Systen we talked about most current and past things that happened in the carp world. Eric was at that time the BCSG rep for the SACG and retired secretary of over 30 years for that body. Never once did he talk abou having a spate with MG over anything. Given this was a current topic of the time Eric without doubt would have mentioned if he had, of that I'm certain.

 

[paul1_]

Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

Well Eric discussed it with me and a number of other BCSG members at a meeting in Warrington. The dispute was publicly aired in the magazine itself.
Eric was fishing with Julian Cundiff at the time, ask Jules about it. I am in touch with Nick via Facebook.

Martin had directly or indirectly told the close knit 'Wilton Group' he had caught the fish in Canada, as I have constantly repeated on FW and I have asked Eddie to speak to Fred directly as I believe at one time he used his bait.

When I spoke to Martin I asked him why he had told Robin Monday and Alan Smith he had caught the fish in Canada on holiday there and shown the pictures, but was now saying they were English. He insisted they were English. I asked him why the background was cut out. He said so the water could not be identified, the fish would get hammered. I asked him if the water was therefore dayticket and anyone could fish and pointed out there were no dayticket waters in the SE with that amount of big commons in it. He wouldn't comment. I asked him if it was private or syndicate and pointed out rules could be brought in as in syndicates I was in to protect the fish so he had no 'hammering' argument. He would not comment. I remember saying at the end "they were caught in Canada, Martin, weren't they?" No comment, end of conversation. He then sent me a letter which I published in Cyprinews.
I was spending time with Alan Smith at the time as I was fishing Darenth and he was quite active in the CS at the time. The normally placid Alan was quite angry about the deceit, especially as initially Martin made no bones of the fact the fish were caught on his Canadian holiday.

One thing I would like to add which Cliff and Eddie keep ducking. The 48 caught by Martin had a distinctive lamprey wound on its belly, discussed by Martin and Robin when first viewing the pictures. Robin was Martin's fishing partner, they fished together every weekend.

There are no lamprey in any stillwaters in the SE of England, or England anywhere. In forty years of carp fishing I have never caught a carp in the UK with a lamprey bite or heard of any.

However the lamprey is a common species in Lake Ontario, Canada.

By the way I bear no personal animosity to Cliff or Eddie, in fact I had said I admire their loyalty to their old friend, who perhaps was not so deserving of such loyalty.

 

[Nobby C (ACA)]

Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

So as a biologist (as well as a botanist) you identified tied a wound as being caused by lamprey but haven't actually seen a picture yet? Would that be a wound similar to spawning injuries to the uninformed eye?
No mention of common carp in this article
GLFC - Sea Lamprey
But one million or one billion percent? I thought 100% was the max.....
There's more proof the pictures were not taken in Canada than you are airing here in favor of your desperate attempt to retain a shred of credibility. Face it Selman, you've been caught with your trousers down and its YOU who's back pedalling out of desperation.
Oh, and if James is embarrassed perhaps you putting his family name in the mix may have something to do with it? He was James N here and Jamie on Cemex/ anglers forum. Once again you trip over your clown shoes in an attempt to bolster your widely varying claims.

 

[paul1_]

Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

Mr Nobby,
I don't understand why you are so abusive all the time. The ACA finished years ago when Bob James defrauded it. Any relation?
If you look at all the publicised pictures of the carp there are no spawning marks. On the 48lb there is a distinctive white area devoid of scales. Here's what Robin Monday to whom Martin told he had caught the carp in Canada said:

Robin Monday wrote in 2015.

"I was fishing for barbel every weekend with Martin until he went to Canada on holiday and came back showing me all the photo's of the carp he caught whilst away, so let's stop all this doubt once and for all. Martin was a good friend and has now taken the truth to the grave with him. RIP

I can't remember exactly what was in each photo but the size of the rocks and the horizon that was so far away that it could never have been in this country. Anyway why would I doubt it we were best mates that fished together every week, he goes on holiday and comes back with loads of photo's of large common carp. If you have seen one of the 48 common just look for the large lamprey mark on it's belly."

By the way, I am a registered fish farmer and work with fish and carp every week. I think you'll find James Nowell put his own name in the frame. He is a well known English angler who emigrated to Canada and lives in Toronto. his neighbour is Martin's nephew who put Martin and Yvonne up when they lived in Kingston, Ontario, near to where Martin fished and caught lots of common carp. Regards.

Here is a pic of the lamprey mark. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...529439992.8120.100003223355566&type=3&theater

 

[Nobby C (ACA)]

Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

Abusive? I think thats a bit OTT but that's for you to decide if you wish, perhaps you'll apply the same opinion to your own forum poster Johnny Bargate (sp) as well? A white area devoid of scales is not indicative of lamprey attack. I offer another article regarding these fish and their prey
Tools in sea lamprey fight adapted for Asian carp - tribunedigital-chicagotribune

The fact is the Canada theory has been discredited by professional geologists and botanists as well as accounts from workers in the areas mentioned so the only tenuous links are the ones you make. Including a complete change of province and then area.
MG had no time for the CS and I firmly believe he wanted to cock a snook at the precious show and self proclaimed experts in carp fishing. In that he succeeded.
I've not seen James' family name mentioned anywhere in this thread so please stop being disingenuous. You were the first and only person to publicise that AFAIK so no attempt at diversion or blame is going to work.
The ACA were a driving force for conservation when I joined in the Alan Edwards era and for that I commemorate them in my name title, not Bobs shenanigans. This has nothing to do with the thread, it just looks like further attempts at division.
BTW, the horizon is always far away because it's, er, the horizon..........

 

[bennygesserit]

Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

The warm water area would extend beyond it initial exit channel so it might be possible to fish in warmer waters but outside the point where its seemingly impractical to fish.

 

[tonybull]

Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

I still think the original un-cropped photo's exist but think its a matter of breaking trust to produce them.

 

[Philip]

Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

The fact is the Canada theory has been discredited by professional geologists and botanists ..........

Just to double check i heard this right...you have discredited the entire surface area of Canada on geological grounds based on the photo of a 3 foot square patch of soil at the feet of somone who has cut out the rest of the background of the photo ?

I would have prefixed the post with a funny smily face but i actually think your being serious.

 

[paul1_]

Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

Ah, Nobby C is Cliff Hatton! Lol.

The same experts point out you could fish the hot water outlet on foot in 1989 on Lennox .......I think you'll find James Nowell introduces himself on the FW Forum not here, Cliff.....

 

[bennygesserit]

Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

Ah, Nobby C is Cliff Hatton! Same IP address. Lol.

The same experts point out you could fish the hot water outlet on foot in 1989 on Lennox .......I think you'll find James Nowell introduces himself on the FW Forum not here, Cliff.....

same ip address accessing your forum ?

 

[Nobby C (ACA)]

Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

No Philip, the Canada theory has been discredited because the arguments in favour held no substance and were shown to be so by professionals in their own fields.

 

[Nobby C (ACA)]

Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

Ah, Nobby C is Cliff Hatton! Same IP address. Lol.

The same experts point out you could fish the hot water outlet on foot in 1989 on Lennox .......I think you'll find James Nowell introduces himself on the FW Forum not here, Cliff.....

Wrong again Selman, I'm currently posting from a family members house on the South coast. Your ,skills, in detection are sadly lacking yet you persist in making clownish, unsubstantiated statements. Go on then, prove I and Cliff are the same person. I'll give you £5000 if you can irrefutably do that, thats a promise.
If you fail you give me £5000 , put up ............let's see what your legal team can do about that.
Just more obfuscation in order to muddy this thread and attempt to disguise your errors, go on, take the challenge buddy, I'll drink to that in the new year.

 

[tonybull]

Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

Nobby

Grow up for godsake, he said one thing with a lol at the end.

 

[Ray Daywalker Clarke]

Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

Mr Nobby,
I don't understand why you are so abusive all the time. The ACA finished years ago when Bob James defrauded it. Any relation?
If you look at all the publicised pictures of the carp there are no spawning marks. On the 48lb there is a distinctive white area devoid of scales. Here's what Robin Monday to whom Martin told he had caught the carp in Canada said:

Robin Monday wrote in 2015.

"I was fishing for barbel every weekend with Martin until he went to Canada on holiday and came back showing me all the photo's of the carp he caught whilst away, so let's stop all this doubt once and for all. Martin was a good friend and has now taken the truth to the grave with him. RIP

I can't remember exactly what was in each photo but the size of the rocks and the horizon that was so far away that it could never have been in this country. Anyway why would I doubt it we were best mates that fished together every week, he goes on holiday and comes back with loads of photo's of large common carp. If you have seen one of the 48 common just look for the large lamprey mark on it's belly."

By the way, I am a registered fish farmer and work with fish and carp every week. I think you'll find James Nowell put his own name in the frame. He is a well known English angler who emigrated to Canada and lives in Toronto. his neighbour is Martin's nephew who put Martin and Yvonne up when they lived in Kingston, Ontario, near to where Martin fished and caught lots of common carp. Regards.

Here is a pic of the lamprey mark. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...529439992.8120.100003223355566&type=3&theater

''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

---------- Post added at 16:52 ---------- Previous post was at 16:52 ----------

Wrong again Selman, I'm currently posting from a family members house on the South coast. Your ,skills, in detection are sadly lacking yet you persist in making clownish, unsubstantiated statements. Go on then, prove I and Cliff are the same person. I'll give you £5000 if you can irrefutably do that, thats a promise.
If you fail you give me £5000 , put up ............let's see what your legal team can do about that.
Just more obfuscation in order to muddy this thread and attempt to disguise your errors, go on, take the challenge buddy, I'll drink to that in the new year.

FIGHT hahaha, you just got to laugh.

 

[Philip]

Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

No Philip, the Canada theory has been discredited because the arguments in favour held no substance and were shown to be so by professionals in their own fields.

I am sure the Geologists Eddie spoke to are very good Nobby…but if they can determine that its not Canada from the photo of a 3 foot patch of non de script soil then I suggest they should give up Geology and go on the X factor because that is one HELL of a talent. Heck I would vote for them !

Even more impressive is that mr Hatton if you look back says that not only have they proved its not Canada but that it also shows it therefore must be the UK !

Amazing !

Do you think the Geologists could narrow it down to a postcode if we ask them nice ?

---------- Post added at 15:58 ---------- Previous post was at 15:58 ----------

you just got to laugh.

You do. Its become that ridiculous.

 

[Nobby C (ACA)]

Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

Nobby

Grow up for godsake, he said one thing with a lol at the end.

He wrote more bowlocks and I called him out on it.
And I've just noticed he edited his original post to omit the cobblers he wrote about the same IP address. How desperate is that? Yes, I'm laughing too.

 

[Cliff Hatton]

Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

You're right, Philip. Those geologists ARE very, very good at what they do. It's why they are highly qualified - to doctorate level, Philip (that's a very high standard, Philip...)

They have made the study of rocks and rock formations their life's work and could make a pretty accurate assessment of any rock or rock-photo taken from just about any part of the world. This is what makes them 'experts', Philip. That said, one needn't be an expert to see the stark contrast in the stone-types to be seen in the MG shot and the Ontario shot.

What's your 'ology' in, Philip?

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Paul Selman, master of the 'thumbed-nose' and 'poked tongue' emoticons, purveyor of insults, falsehoods, bogus photographs, fantasy and arrogance (examples of which can be cited at the drop of a hat) now goes for the sympathy ticket with allegations of bullying and cajoling and insensitivity. If this were true - and it's not - he would deserve nothing less for what he has done. Flailing around for something to cling to, he desperately calls in the good names of some good people, none of whom - I would wager - has followed this thread and witnessed the sheer absurdity of his miracles (no less!) his contradictions and his fourth rate sophistry: a kid of 5 would get a stitch laughing at Paul Selman's 'mountains-to-power station' conversion.

Kev Clifford and Derek Stritton ARE good guys and, as such, they're likely to believe what they're 'authoritatively' told by people they believe they can trust. Their recent statements are, I've no doubt whatsoever, made in good faith and belief but...they're made in the context of the story they were spun by less ethical characters. As for Chris Ball....repeating the George Michael / toilet analogy is beyond shameful: did he really say this again?

It is clear that my and Eddie's passion for revealing the truth and for resurrecting the good name of Martin Gay - a truly outstanding fisherman and naturalist - is matched by Paul Selman's desperation to reclaim his 'dignity'; the argument could then go on forever - but he's always be on the back foot.

 

[tonybull]

Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

Cliff

Just name the water, then when that gets questioned, just produce the photo with the sign in the background and be done with it.