Mystery Fish Caught on Different Baits?

[Philip]

I remember getting false bites once & could not work out why till i realized the fish were being attracted to the smelly plastercine i was using for weight. Cheap rubber beads that stink of petroleum could just as well attract as repel..

 

[@Clive]

We've been here before Clive, carp pellets don't hold half the nutritional value of a halibut pellet, but they still catch fish, in matches guys catch big bags of carp feeding nothing using sweetcorn as bait(very low nutritional value), where people feeding 'quality' baits don't get a sniff, so I believe they are like us where a strategically placed Mars bar or packet of crisps gets a 'bite' on a regular basis....lol.

Yes we have been here before. When you evidenced examples of animal behaviour that you had previously said didn't happen. The article evidences that fish can be selective in their dietary needs. Therefore I suggest that if your bait meets that need it is likely to perform better than one that doesn't. Cattle don't lick the salt tablets all day, every day. But they return to them periodically when they feel the need.

Philip; many rodents such as mice and rats as well as squirrels and fouines eat plastic pipes and cables. It is the latex content of the plastic products that they are seeking. You also find it furniture products such as foam.

 

[Alan Whitty]

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[@Clive]

Alan, maize is not only regarded as a good bait for fish, but many mammals too. That is why it is found in so many animal foods. Farmers around here grow maize, sunflowers, wheat, barley and beans to feed cattle Only the maize fields get trashed by boar. That is despite electric fences and gas guns set around maize fields. No need for protection on the other crops. There is something in maize that boar highly prize.

Man is the only species that can be told what is good and what is bad. Animals have to rely on their instincts that are rooted many thousands of years back. I don't know why maize makes such a good bait. But I suspect that it is the B vitamins contained in it. All fish need B vitamins in their diet to live. Without it they would quickly die. Maize contains 6 different B vitamins. Fred Wilton used Pometeg in his early boilie recipes. That was rich in vitamin B. Look at the old fashioned baits that worked before anglers understood the science. Wheat, bread, cheese, hemp all contain multiple B vitamins.

What you fail to grasp is that scientific research has proven that fish and other species can and do recognise deficiencies in their diet. You cannot deny it because it is a fact. Just because you can relate examples that support your own theories does not change science. Fish, like us, eat for different reasons; habit / routine, seasonal items, nature's bounty at harvest or migration times and necessity because of extreme hunger. And, like us they will binge on plentiful items even if they do not need the nutrition in the food. And will eat things that they would normally not choose to est through hunger.

 

[Alan Whitty]

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[@Clive]

Sorry Alan, but you are making absolutely no sense. The scientific studies or your personal opinion? I'm with the scientists.

 

[nottskev]

Sweetcorn lacks nutritional value?

Why is sweetcorn such an effective bait? – Rod Hutchinson

rodhutchinson.co.uk

 

[Alan Whitty]

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[Alan Whitty]

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[nottskev]

Compared to a quality boilie or a pellet Kev??? Not a chance.

No chance of what?
No chance that the appeal to fish of corn can be better understood if we know what corn contains and how it's conducive to their wellbeing?
Seems entirely reasonable to me.


Anglers know stuff from personal and collective experience about how fish respond to baits.
Scientists know about what food sources contain and how these contents are processed and to what effect in creatures' digestive systems.
I don't buy the idea that the first group has nothing to learn from the second. Valid knowledge comes from many sources. What's worth knowing depends on what you want to do - understand how food chains support fish life; how food content supports fish physiology; how wild fish select what their systems need; how to farm fish and get the biggest growth bang for your buck consistent with health; how to induce fish to take a bait and feed them to line up to be caught; how to tempt fish that have been over-exposed to this or that type of bait etc ....... All these kinds of knowledge bleed into each other.

Of course we learn a lot by watching fish feed.
I've been watching people eat all my life but I wouldn't claim that qualifies me to dismiss nutritional science.

 

[Alan Whitty]

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[Alan Whitty]

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[@Clive]

Alan, I am struggling to understand what you term as being high nutritional value? You started out by saying that fish cannot detect nutrients contained in food. Then, a day later stated that some animals seek out salt licks. That mirrors last time where you flip-flopped from one thing to another, contradicting yourself along the way. If fish cannot detect the level of nutrition as you say, then how and why do they select the boilie instead of the maize as you claim?

Boilies are made from cereals so contain the same vitamins that maize has. Pellets are made from fishmeal. Again, high in vitamin B.

Your comments are focussed on answering a question that nobody has asked. The question was not; which is best, HNV baits or maize. The question was; why are some baits attractive to fish. And the anwer if you could look beyond the end of your nose is that the baits including maize, bread, wheat and cheese are all rich in vitamins that fish need in order to live. That is why they work so well.

 

[nottskev]

No chance its nutritional value is as high, simples, also, dismiss no, take notice over what I see myself I'm afraid not, what I've learned through my own findings catches me fish, do scientists findings do the same??? You will have many things that you have picked up over the years that I will have no knowledge of, i can only draw on my experience to get results, I also understand fish eat anything edible, but certain fish have preferences, but they still can be tempted by something of far less nutritional value by it being different and not necessarily associated with danger

Simples? You quote meerkats at me? Well, that must be the answer then.

No. I didn't say that you don't understand the appeal of corn. I answered your assertion that sweetcorn lacks nutritional value, with a vague gesture to something you once read about commercial fishery bait rules as the only back-up for it. And rather than use one of the innumerable sources that point out sweetcorn's nutritional values, I linked to an angler acknowledged to be expert in fishing AND in bait and nutrition.


I'm getting a sense of deja vu. Nobody's impugning your personal knowledge of fishing and baits, but you seem affronted by suggestions that the topic can be illuminated by forms of knowledge outside angling. You've referred positively to boilies and pellets a few times; isn't it true that these developed in the interaction of scientific knowledge - appetite stimulation, nutrition, digestion etc - and practical angling? There's often an undertone of "what do these boffins know?" in what you post.

 

[Alan Whitty]

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[@Clive]

Every bait has nutritional value, its to what level that counts here imo, to be fair, testing what fish do in a tank has little bearing in the real world we operate in, if that's poo hooing the boffins so be it, but even supposed experts are capable of mistakes, or misguided by findings, good quality is a fundemental requirement of a baiting campaign if what I read is true, for me going out on a day session or shorter the way I feed is often more important than what I feed, obviously I hope to use a palatable bait for my target species, sometimes my choice is wrong and I'm not a multi bait carrier, opting to find the feeding pattern to tempt the fish to feed, this stems from my years in match fishing, as I say I'm not going to take for granted what anyone writes if it goes against everything I've seen, I simply couldn't and nor should anyone else imho....

First let's remind ourselves of what you said earlier;

I believe we treat fish like they have a masters degree in dietary content, they do not and like all wild creatures they eat the most readily available food source at any one time, one that uses as little energy to gather, the only thing against that is being caught, if you eat ten baits before you get hooked it's obvious the fish are going to be less keen than if eating ten thousand grains of hemp and never getting hooked, there are so many variables it I'd impossible to quantify

So you imply in your earlier post that fish don't care what they eat. It is all a matter of convenience and that they have no knowledge of their dietary needs. Then you acknowledge that some species seek out minerals such as salt licks. If they don't know what is good for them why do they seek out a rarely found commodity? And the elephants that you refer to aren't captive, tank reared individuals. Neither are the fish studied in the many scientific reports that you cannot be bothered to read.

Then you dismiss maize as having no nutritional value when you obviously haven't a clue that it is probably the most important ingredient in the world regards animal nutrition. Kev has given you an insight into why Rod Hutchinson regarded maize as being an important bait. Did he just fish for tank reared fish? Remember that he revolutionised the tactics at Redmire using hemp and sweetcorn. And how many record carp have been taken on sweetcorn?

You have closed your mind to the subject. But, if you think that your personal experience counts for more than the scientists with budgets of multi million £'s involved in fish and animal nutrition and the opinion of one of angling's most successful and inovative carp anglers and bait specialists then you really have got your head stuck somewhere the sun don't shine.

 

[Alan Whitty]

As you were then!!!!

Maize/sweetcorn obviously has some nutritional value, but nothing to compare to quality pellets and boilies, so designed by piscatorial nutrition experts to give them everything they need, so why should they eat the former, because they like it perhaps, because its visible perhaps, because its small fish resistant(maize) perhaps, or because the scientists/experts research in 'tanks' say so, not Rod Hutchinson, I know they like maize- sweetcorn I question the equally blinkered attitude to accept im entitled to my opinion and don't have to give you the ins and outs of a cows rear end to explain myself, as I said if any experts came up with a paper that went against what you believe you wouldn't give it time of day, so allow me the same right and not argue the toss so viciously, as I said before you relly are a nasty piece of work and I need your attitude like a hole in the head, I have someone with autism who is more pleasant....

 

[@Clive]

Close your mind to anything that you choose not to believe in. Don't read the science, but still have an opinion on it. Make up things like 'tank reared' to justify your opinion when there is nothing to support it. Put your personal experience above all other sources of knowledge. Change the terms of the debate to support your preconcieved opinions.

I think that covers it.

 

[Alan Whitty]

You do not read anything, if I see things with my own eyes on several rivers and clear stillwaters in a lifetime that makes me disagree with your supposed science what am I supposed to do, agree with the science anyway, dont be daft, if I wrote a paper on it you would poo hoo it because that is what you do and how you debate, debase your opponent, I'm as entitled have an opinion on anything I like and nothing you or anyone else says will stop it, maybe it would be better you put me on ignore then you wouldn't have to know what I think eh???

 

[@Clive]

I see that you have deleted most of your posts. Perhaps you ought to write a scientific paper on fish nutrition? I am sure that it would be groundbreaking.