Mystery Fish Caught on Different Baits?

[Alan Whitty]

Maybe I should write a paper on your ignorance, but I'm not sure the rain forest took take the strain.... it seems you keep replying rather than click to ignore me, wanting to continue this pathetic onslaught, I will not answer your reply as its tiresome, so do your worst...

 

[@Clive]

It worked equally well with the gold Dunhill paper as well as the silver paper from Pete’s packet.

I hadn’t thought about the tobacco aroma to be honest.

In those days we were paying over £8 (equivalent) for about 30 maggots in packs designed for ice fishing, but soon started our import of large quantities from a bait supplier close to Heathrow.

I was fishing a reservoir for roach using traditional maggot under a waggler approach. A bloke arrived and started pushing a fine mesh net through the marginal weeds. He caught hundreds of roach fry, only an inch or so long. With these as bait under a short length of peacock quill he proceeded to catch some lovely roach fishing close to the marginal weed. I wonder if that explains your experience?

 

[peterjg]

Are we all too set in our ways to try different baits? I do try weird ideas of baits from time to time but soon revert to tried and tested methods, probably giving up too easily by reverting back to a big lump of bread! I'm sure we're all missing a trick somewhere?

Examples. When anglers first saw the phenomenal catches of roach on hemp by the Belgians during WW1. I clearly remember being shown and amazed by the hair rig about 1979/80, catches were instantly unbelievable!

 

[John Aston]

The irony in this discussion is that in my experience very few anglers show much interest in, let alone knowledge of , what fish actually eat - other than our baits. In my area , I can think of perhaps 4 or 5 miles of river where enough free offerings are thrown in perhaps for fish to treat them as part of their diet , at least in season. But that leaves hundreds of miles of lightly fished , and purely fly fished water.

As part of the Riverfly Partnership I've been monitoring invertebrates for about 15 years and that has offered some insight into what food sources there are. The lessons I've learned are that in any one spot (we monitor exactly the same location ) there are huge variations in numbers of bugs (upwinged flies like mayflies and olives, caddises, shrimps , stoneflies, chironomids, leeches etc ) according to flow and oxygenation , and season. I've had 1000+ in good conditions, and zero in bad ones, from a 3 minute kick sample. So do the fish move, go hungry, eat something else ? All three I suspect. It's harder to monitor bugs on deep coarse fishing rivers but it's easy enough to spot what's hatching if you pay attention . And sadly , very few coarse anglers do . That isn't a patronising comment from a posh dry fly angler as I am an all rounder , but it is rare that much interest is shown.

I remember John Bailey doing very well with tench on caddises, bloodworm and jokers were once essential for winter canal matches ,I've done well with chub on slugs and crayfish (when legal) , and even had some trout on live mayfly but like most of us, most bait comes from the tackleshop and Tescos

 

[@Clive]

Totally agree John. Anglers in the 17th century understood more about the diet of fish than most anglers do today.The old fishing books list baits suitable for different months of the year.

In some well fished rivers even caddis are feeding on decomposed pellets and the density of fish stocks is dependent on the regular supply of angler's baits. On other waters the fish have to survive on their own and are vulnerable to localised famines of one sort or another. So they have to become nomadic and make the best of it.

 

[peterjg]

Re previous two posts, I am sure that you are both right. Being such an unsociable old so and so most of the places that I prefer to fish are seldom fished by others but for some totally unknown reason bread is (usually) accepted like a natural bait. Maybe the continued use of naturals would catch some uncaught fish?

 

[@Clive]

Peter, going back a couple of pages I listed several baits that seem to catch wherever you fish. Like you I fish in quiet, often unfished waters. For some reason I have not done well with bread, but the old fashioned baits like stewed wheat will catch roach and rudd anywhere despite never having been used before. Cheese paste catches 'virgin' chub, carp and barbel. Hemp is another universal bait that I use as loose feed or in groundbait. On the hook maize / sweetcorn and pigeon peas are readily taken as are maggots and worms. What surprised me is how readily they accept the cubes of luncheon meat despite their size and somewhat startling pink colour. Yet bread is largely ignored. I had the feeling that modern breadmaking methods using chemical raising agents might be to blame. Although I didn't fare any better with home made bread using yeast.

For groundbait I think that fermenting it makes a big difference.

 

[Philip]

I caught Carp in Australian rivers on sweetcorn that would not have seen it before. They absolutly gobbled it down.

Totally instant bait which you can find in literally any corner shop round the globe. Perfect for the travelling angler.

 

[Mark Wintle]

The irony in this discussion is that in my experience very few anglers show much interest in, let alone knowledge of , what fish actually eat - other than our baits. In my area , I can think of perhaps 4 or 5 miles of river where enough free offerings are thrown in perhaps for fish to treat them as part of their diet , at least in season. But that leaves hundreds of miles of lightly fished , and purely fly fished water.

As part of the Riverfly Partnership I've been monitoring invertebrates for about 15 years and that has offered some insight into what food sources there are. The lessons I've learned are that in any one spot (we monitor exactly the same location ) there are huge variations in numbers of bugs (upwinged flies like mayflies and olives, caddises, shrimps , stoneflies, chironomids, leeches etc ) according to flow and oxygenation , and season. I've had 1000+ in good conditions, and zero in bad ones, from a 3 minute kick sample. So do the fish move, go hungry, eat something else ? All three I suspect. It's harder to monitor bugs on deep coarse fishing rivers but it's easy enough to spot what's hatching if you pay attention . And sadly , very few coarse anglers do . That isn't a patronising comment from a posh dry fly angler as I am an all rounder , but it is rare that much interest is shown.

I remember John Bailey doing very well with tench on caddises, bloodworm and jokers were once essential for winter canal matches ,I've done well with chub on slugs and crayfish (when legal) , and even had some trout on live mayfly but like most of us, most bait comes from the tackleshop and Tescos

As a kid the Piddle wasn't far away but what little pocket money I had was reserved for hooks so free baits ruled. The Piddle was full of caddis back then and it was effective for roach, dace and trout, especially those big golden grubs. I don't see anything like as many caddis in there now.
Similarly, I caught a grayling a few years ago on the Frome that was deep-hooked and didn't survive. Waste not, want not I took it home to eat. I checked its stomach and several hundred tiny dark green caddis, plus a few of my maggots.

 

[Philip]

Caddis play a bigger part in fishes diet than we probably imagine.

..perhaps its also one of the reasons casters work so well...similar sort of size, harder outer shell and mushy guts inside..

 

[peterjg]

Clive, I flavour my bread with a mixture of geranium oil and HP brown sauce - fish like it - apart from one particular lake where bread is useless. I do always take other options though, some days the fish want sweetcorn other days they won't touch it - don't know why? Undoubtedly fish can be very fussy and what works brilliantly one day is often useless the next.

 

[markcw]

Thats interesting...was it the silver paper or the tabbaco smell that made them have it i wonder ?

It was an old trick on the north west canal scene some years ago, put a small strip of silver paper at the top of the hook shank and reel in slowly when going to change bait , plenty of perch caught this way , even by just twitching the bait as well. A few unscrupulous match anglers tried it as well.
I would imagine it's very similar to silver flash feather lures for mackerel

 

[markcw]

I have had some decent carp in matches on the method feeder using pieces Marks and Spencer Yum Yums on the hook.
Also pieces of Malt Loaf.

 

[@Clive]

Caddis play a bigger part in fishes diet than we probably imagine.

..perhaps its also one of the reasons casters work so well...similar sort of size, harder outer shell and mushy guts inside..

Only in the faster waters though. And as John Aston said; they cannot be guaranteed to be there in good numbers. Some years are better than others. In slower water where the bed is covered in detritus or mud bloodworm and other fly larvae are the food source along with molluscs and shrimps.

Fish other than predators get most of the essential B vitamins from eating these living creatures. There is little in aquatic vegetation. Maggots, casters and worms are a good substitute.

Maggots are banned on some rivers in France, the higher reaches of trout rivers and streams mainly. When asked why? The president of the association of one department's fisheries stated that it was because maggots eat and puncture the intestines of trout thus killing them

 

[Keith M]

Maggots are banned on some rivers in France, the higher reaches of trout rivers and streams mainly. When asked why? The president of the association of one department's fisheries stated that it was because maggots eat and puncture the intestines of trout thus killing them

That would be laughable if it wasn’t said by a president of a fishery department.
You’d expect that idiot to know a lot better wouldn't you?

Keith

 

[@Clive]

Yes. Apart from the fact that commercially sold maggots have already stopped feeding and dropped off the meat he didn't seem concerned about maggots being used for coarse fish.

 

[Keith M]

Yes. Apart from the fact that commercially sold maggots have already stopped feeding and dropped off the meat he didn't seem concerned about maggots being used for coarse fish.

And the fact that maggots only eat ‘dead’ flesh and are used in some hospitals to treat wounds.
And that they would most likely be dead anyway when they reach the digestive tract

Keith

 

[John Aston]

That would be laughable if it wasn’t said by a president of a fishery department.
You’d expect that idiot to know a lot better wouldn't you?

Keith

In mitigation , our Gallic ami is stated as being head of an association of a Department . The latter is similar to an English county ,ie a local government area , but officials in angling clubs on both sides of the channel sometimes have curious ideas ....

 

[nottskev]

Perhaps not as daft as the killer maggot, but do you remember when anglers of a certain generation wanted hemp banned as it "drugs" fish?
What had they been smoking? (Woodbines, probably)

 

[John Aston]

But no dafter than - sigh - rules requiring pike (and, more recently zander ) to be killed, bread banned , hooks bigger than 10 banned, minimum bs lines to be used (regardless of target species) . In fact , just read the rule book of almost any big angling club and nonsense folows nonsense ...