Otters on the Bristol Avon

[steve2]

Can we get somethings straight. We catch fish for fun, Otters catch fish to live. It is something we just have to accept.
Until we clean up rivers in this country fish stocks will get lower in all shapes and sizes.

 

[Alan Whitty]

I have seen a video of an otter carrying a dead black cat in its jaws (intact,not flattened), I believe this was somewhere around Bourton on the Water,this was sent to a guy who fitted cctv by a customer who couldn't believe the footage, as for otters killing a lamb, don't think they aren't capable Phil, it's whether or not they think it's a necessary risk when a barbel/fish, crayfish, or waterfowl is easier, I've watched otters after ducks, bit like carp taking a dog biscuit....

 

[Alan Whitty]

Can we get somethings straight. We catch fish for fun, Otters catch fish to live. It is something we just have to accept.
Until we clean up rivers in this country fish stocks will get lower in all shapes and sizes.

Yes we do Steve and otters that were already present on rivers before the bunny huggers got going already had a niche in the ecosystem, but in the home counties and southern or east midlands never, ever saw one, now they are common, I often see them in the middle of Bedford, totally oblivious to lots of walkers, many with dogs....

Also to answer an earlier comment about otters on the lower Thames, I think you will find they are there, but they will be proper otters, nocturnal....

 

[The bad one]

Alan do some research on released otters before you make comments about Bunny Huggers.
I'll save you the time, over nearly 20 years the Otter Trusts released 138 That 138 nationally.
They release between 4 and 6 rehabilitated otter a year that have been found in the wild and take into care.
138 on a land mass of E and W was and is insignificant (do the Math)! The otter population E&W was recovering by itself from the early 1990s onward.
There has been no release of captive bred otters since the year 2000.
Otters live between 4-6 years in the wild, become mature (able to breed) at 2 years old.
The numbers of yearling otters killed each year are by traffic accidents and natural mortality is calculated to be 70% of those born each year.
As to you point about an otter carrying a dead cat. Was the cat dead when the otter came across it?
There so much shite talked about them on the internet that they only eat live prey, it's noncense! As with all apex predators they're opportunist and will take freshly dead carrion.
A large dog otter of course is capable of taking down a new born lamb. But within half an hour a new born would have the capability to out run an otter which don't run very fast anyway. It's the predator prey survival strategy.
But why would an otter want to takedown a lamb anyway, given the amount of spring prey available to them on the river? The Ribble and it's tributaries is full of easy pickings. Ducks, moorhens, young rabbits, Waders nesting, rats, mice, voles, frogs, toads, fish and more.
By the way can you post a link to this cat/otter video please Alan.

 

[John Aston]

Yes , I did some research into figures released in Yorkshire and they were low . They were somewhat at odds with the farmer who blithely told me that 50 had been released , on the tidal Ouse alone!

Trouble is, if you present the figures in the pubic domain to a member of the otter hysteria league , you tend to be accused of naivety in accepting them . I keep my eyes open for one of the many undercover otter farms which must be operating , but no joy yet ....

Otters are a very visible target for outrage and undeniably they take a few fish. But compared to the threat we face from pollution , abstraction, agriculture , habitat loss and climate change their effect is tiny- unless you have a small pond full of carp , in which case build a bloody fence.

 

[no-one in particular]

Long time since I read an otter thread, have anglers accepted them? You don't see them mentioned or photographed much in wildlife programs anymore either, have the bored got bored with them. their new fix appears to be Beavers but I think they are getting bored with them as well, their next fix is being lined up which will be Bison, I don't fancy a herd of them at my back when I am fishing.
I have never seen an otter around me, I spend a fair bit of time fishing in the south east but they haven't encroached in my part of the world, I am sure there must be some but I have never seen one or any evidence of one either, seen mink but only a couple of times. The only time I saw otters was on the Somerset levels on a visit once with my sister, but that was just one pair.

 

[peterjg]

I see otters quite regularly on the Thames and Kennet. Our rivers are definitely deteriorating, the main reason is pollution by sewerage and various chemicals, unfortunately abstraction, cormorants, signal crayfish and otters do not help an already weakened system. The EA is obviously fully aware of this but continues to achieve nothing.

 

[The bad one]

Trouble is, if you present the figures in the pubic domain to a member of the otter hysteria league , you tend to be accused of naivety in accepting them . I keep my eyes open for one of the many undercover otter farms which must be operating , but no joy yet ....

Yes John no one has ever come up with a clandestine breeder anywhere....strange that isn't it? Many anglers wouldn't know an otter if it jumped up and mugged them for their sanies. The amount of pictures I've seen of a dog mink being claimed as an otter must be at least once a fortnight on angling/wildlife sites.
What really cracks me up is the reports of numbers of otters on the Ribble on various club forums. There's a breeding female that has a territory around around Ribchester. So it's seen with at least one cub regularly. It/they can get reported as 6 otters living on that length of the river by club members on the clubs websites.

 

[Notts Michael.]

People continue to knock the EA as ineffective, useless etc etc, but remember that their funding has been reduced hugely by the government (and will likely be reduced further in the future) and they just don't have the staff levels and funds to deal with reports from the public of issues.

 

[Mark Wintle]

This is a frame from video so not sharp but the otter which was a big one is trying to eat my float on the Stour.

 

[The bad one]

Notts Michael I'd think about what you wrote mate. It's their bloody job to investigate incidents made by the public. Not collude with the water companies to downgrade pollution incident so they don't have to get off their arses and do something!
I'll say again, "they are not fit for purpose.!"
And no amount of crying they haven't got the man power or money to do the statutory job they should be doing will convince me otherwise. Time the bosses grew some balls and stood up to government and ministers over not enough money to do the job. And where needed going public over it to garner public support to get it.

 

[The bad one]

Mark no need to be afraid of the Wisent (European Bison) as when I saw a herd of them in Poland you couldn't get within 100 yards of them before they cleared off into the forest again. Just don't like humans with good reason no doubt, as we hunted them to almost extinction, save for a few left in zoos in Czechoslovakia, which the ones in Poland are descendants of.

 

[Alan Whitty]

Phil, I can't, because it was sent via pm on here, or a.n.other forum many years hence, or emailed and long since deleted, but it certainly wasn't road kill, I never said there were any captive otters released, young otters have been rescued from holts after their mothers have been killed on the roads, this going totally against nature's way, also my pb (18lbs) reached 20lbs 12ozs before an otter caught it, it was disturbed by two anglers and left the fish gasping for life with a hole where its liver was before it expired, apart from tail damage and that wound it was in excellent condition, how do I know, because the guy showed me several pictures from his phone in his bath, he had the fish set up, he had caught it at its top weight, predation is natural, otters do catch mainly live prey, because apart from road kill carcasses are not as easily found and they would go hungry, they hunt every day (night), a small island in the Ivel at Biggleswade had seven decent sized chub carcasses on it, must have been the otters birthday finding so many dead fish , this on a river that had no otters in my lifetime until around 2010 I believe, if you want to see otters come to the Gt Ouse, a night visit would be guaranteed to see one, unless you blink and miss them swim past... as I said in an earlier post there have been loads seen in daylight at Bedford, on the boating lake a female showed three kitts how to corner and pick off a shoal of small roach whilst 20-30 people watched at times within feet of her, many with dogs, some large, for over an hour, I had to explain to a young woman with a labrador that this wasn't how otters are meant to behave being night feeders and would normally be very timid especially with young present...

 

[The bad one]

I didn't say you said captive bred otters were released. I wrote no captive bred otters have been released since 2000 as that's when the breeding programme was shut down. As to the dead cat, you nor the person sending your the picture seem to know how it died. Other than it was being carried by an otter. Was it killed by it or did it find it dead and the free meal of opportunity was presented to it?
Otter eat fish and the PB was sadly a casualty of that. One thing for sure that fish was getting on in years and would have died at some point sooner than later. Big old fish don't live for ever!
Whilst otter do mainly eat live prey, they won't and don't miss an opportunity of freshly dead carrion, particularly if the otter is getting old. As with all apex predators when they are getting on in years then turn to scavenging. Old otters are no different!
Not true they are mainly night time feeders, dependant on how successful they've hunted, cubs they have and old they are they, are forced to feed in daylight hours. It's why the wildlife programmes cameramen on TV get the stunning shots of them they do.
As to you never seeing them before 2010 that's down to natural population expansion (not captive bred releases and or rehabilitated otter releases.) On this the protocol for the Otter Trusts (OTs) is to release them back where they were initially found.
Ever 10 years the OTs do a national survey of Otters presence. The most recent one circa 2 years ago showed otters in every county of E&W.

 

[no-one in particular]

Mark no need to be afraid of the Wisent (European Bison) as when I saw a herd of them in Poland you couldn't get within 100 yards of them before they cleared off into the forest again. Just don't like humans with good reason no doubt, as we hunted them to almost extinction, save for a few left in zoos in Czechoslovakia, which the ones in Poland are descendants of.

You are right, I was once charged with my looking after my nephew for a day and I took him to Howletts Zoo near Canterbury. The had a herd of bison there and I was looking at them and looked down to see my nephew and he wasn't there; the little bugger had somehow crawled between the wooden stanchions and was crawling around the bisons feet, he was fine they didn't seem to notice him but I had a major panic attack.
I still don't fancy them wandering around free if it comes to it though, are we just too small a country to take them? I am generally not in favour of any of these re-introductions, otters are fine when they adapt too numbers that are sustainable which I think appears to be generally the case but they never really disappeared, but Bison did 12000 years ago, does it make any sense.

 

[nottskev]

Mark no need to be afraid of the Wisent (European Bison) as when I saw a herd of them in Poland you couldn't get within 100 yards of them before they cleared off into the forest again. Just don't like humans with good reason no doubt, as we hunted them to almost extinction, save for a few left in zoos in Czechoslovakia, which the ones in Poland are descendants of.

I was finding my way while it was still not light down a narrow path to a new stretch of the Derwent. Over the fence, out of the mist, loomed a massive horned head, snuffling and snorting. Flippin heck, I shouted and cleared off quickly. Coming back a few hours later, there's an elderly chap holding up a child so he can put fruit and veg into the beast's mouth. I found out I'd bumped into Onky the water buffalo, loved and fed by the locals. I didn't mention the big soft thing had scared me to death.