River Close Season – Is it time for a rethink?

black kettle

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Hi Ray,

Hope you and yours are well.

You are perfectly right in that the rivers close season is currently enshrined in law. It is not for the supporters of the close season to come up with reasoned arguments for keeping it because we already have it. It rests fair and square on the shoulders of those who seek to scrap or alter the present system to come up with "scientific proof" that there would be no threat posed if the rivers close season were to be abolished. This is why Martin Salter is pushing for some sort of trial is he not? So seeing as he represents the AT, I think we can take it that the AT is in agreement with him?

Now call me picky, but does this look like being changes sought by the back door? To have any sort of "trial", the law governing the rivers close season would have to be amended? Therefore I would be interested to know if such an amendment would have to follow existing Parliament protocols?

Outside of Parliament, I can well imagine the whispers and chatter behind the walls of the Ivory Towers.

Regards,

Lee.
 

Ray Wood 1

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Hi Ray,

Hope you and yours are well.

You are perfectly right in that the rivers close season is currently enshrined in law. It is not for the supporters of the close season to come up with reasoned arguments for keeping it because we already have it. It rests fair and square on the shoulders of those who seek to scrap or alter the present system to come up with "scientific proof" that there would be no threat posed if the rivers close season were to be abolished. This is why Martin Salter is pushing for some sort of trial is he not? So seeing as he represents the AT, I think we can take it that the AT is in agreement with him?

Now call me picky, but does this look like being changes sought by the back door? To have any sort of "trial", the law governing the rivers close season would have to be amended? Therefore I would be interested to know if such an amendment would have to follow existing Parliament protocols?

Outside of Parliament, I can well imagine the whispers and chatter behind the walls of the Ivory Towers.

Regards,

Lee.

Hi Lee,
Yes all is well in the East London mansion, Eve and I just celebrated our 25th wedding anniversary. Love is better second time around don’t you think? I am still fishing and enjoying it even more now work is finished with. I have diversed from barbel only and I am catching some nice fish, and have put some of your bait ideas to good use.

I trust you are well and still as awesome as ever and that life is treating you kindly.:)

I believe the idea of a trail is indeed the idea and the Severn has been muted as a possibility. That would suit one or two who ply their trades on that particular river. I am not sure if it would be the whole river or just one section. As you know the BS have a stretch at Pixham Ferry perhaps that might be in the equation?

I believe Mr Pope has responded to some questions on the BS facebook page, but as yet not on FM and his next diary where he stated he would expand on his thoughts has yet to be published.

Yes we must agree that as Martin Salter represents the AT they they would appear at least on face value to be in agreement. You know how the guys in the AT work so it might very well be that they are seeking change via the back door.

Is it time to hold a Sun Dance then and call on the Oglala Sioux Bad Faces and the Cheyenne Dog Soldiers to help get to the bottom of things?

Keep safe
Ray
 

Peter Jacobs

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This is why Martin Salter is pushing for some sort of trial is he not? So seeing as he represents the AT, I think we can take it that the AT is in agreement with him?

It is exactly that point that makes me suspicious of the Angling Trust's reply to my Facebook post.

It appears that the Angling Trust are saying one thing while their man, Mr Salter, is saying something altogether different.
 

Ray Wood 1

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It is exactly that point that makes me suspicious of the Angling Trust's reply to my Facebook post.

It appears that the Angling Trust are saying one thing while their man, Mr Salter, is saying something altogether different.

Morning Peter,
Yes there now appears to be good reasons to be suspicious we are not seeing or hearing what is really going on or what some are actually saying. Are the Trust 100% behind this call for change? having just read Steve Pope’s diary it would appear he has now softened his views and states he will not be pushing hard for change but indicates that it will happen eventually.

It was nice to see his words regarding Fred Crouch. I wonder what Fred would have made of Steve’s desire to have the river close season shortened as he was a staunch supporter of the CS as it now stands. Steve has indicated elsewhere that he will not enter into any debate regarding the river CS what does that tell us?

The BS barbel spawning survey suggests that barbel are spawning earlier and if global warming continues they will very likely spawn even earlier than they are now which might indicate the CS should be lengthened not shortened.

I am not sure what to make of any of it but I know one thing I am very wary of what is going on as it now seems to be going to take place behind closed doors and with no real debate. Can any of them be trusted?

kind regards
Ray
 

Peter Jacobs

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I am sorry Steve but I really cannot help but think that the fact that we have had a very unusually wet winter is sufficient cause to even consider an alteration to the Close Season in its present form.

Any business (worthy of staying in business) knows that there will be times of growth and expansion but also periods of little or no growth, so to use this as an excuse is wholly disingenuous. For us (anglers) to base this argument upon commercial interests compared to those of our conservation principles is almost unbelievable, and moreover it does our sport in general no good service whatsoever.

As an aside, can someone tell me why we don't see the same "commercial" argument from the Trout and Salmon anglers who have an even longer "close season" than we do? And yet ,we never seem to hear them arguing for change; now, why is that I wonder?

Regarding the differences between coarse fish in still waters versus our rivers you only have to look to the fact that the vast majority of stillwaters are regularly re-stocked whereas our rivers rely almost totally on natural spawning and year class fish growing onto adulthood
.
Yes, I know that some rivers have been restocked, usually following some pollution incident or similar occurrence, (but certainly not on the scale or the regularity of almost all commercial stillwaters,)

Our rivers are prone to all sorts of conditions not prevalent in lakes, ponds or other commercial venues. It follows that the fish in the rivers are far more natural than their still water cousins particularly in their breeding and survival and accordingly need more not less protection.

Now, seeing as you mentioned Pandora’s Box in the first instance, allow me to remind our readers that having opened the box (which incidentally contained all the evils of the world) there was, laid in the bottom, the Elpis, otherwise known as the Spirit of Hope.

Now, to my mind the “evils” were the loss of the Close Season on still waters and some canals, whereas the Spirit of Hope remains to be the maintenance of the Close Season on our rivers which, are already suffering from over-predation and over abstraction to mention but a few. Accordingly to even pretend that our duty or care and our principles of care flew out of the window is, again, wholly incorrect, inasmuch as we are talking about stocked and re-stocked venues

All that said, and having waited for some time to read your views I am very encouraged to see that you are still in favour of retaining the current Close Season and will not be campaigning for a change.

Finally, again as you mentioned it first, let’s remember that Armageddon was actually only the geographical site where the armies gathered for the “end times”

So while there may not be a potential Armageddon if the Close Season were to be abolished it would certainly herald the end time of common sense, our conservation principles and the loss of our sporting credentials in the eyes of the general public, not to mention giving the anti-brigades free ammunition.
 
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bongoman

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I`ll just bet all the otters, mink, cormorants, goosanders, (some) eastern Europeans, e.t.c, e.t.c, absolutely love the close season when they can have a free for all, taking as many coarse fish to eat as they please with virtually no-one about on the banks. lets just hope that the boaters, cyclists, dog-walkers, sightseers, joggers, walkers, picknickers, and general public all who are allowed to "use" the rivers with impunity are enough to put off all these predators. the argument that most stillwaters are artificially stocked is a load of old bull-droppings, as for salmon anglers having a longer close season than us, it`s because the fish have stopped "running" or in other words SPAWNING.
why don`t we have a close season for salmon and sea trout when they spawn?
after all a large percentage of game fish are taken for the table and never get a chance to procreate. besides, when was the last time you took a couple of chub or barbel for the pot at spawning time ? let alone DURING the river season.
it`s not time for a rethink, it`s time to abolish this outdated and unfair (to river anglers) law. I suppose I`ll just have to wait till may when I can legally "knock out" 300 lb of carp dripping with spawn and milt NOT!!
 

black kettle

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Brilliant posts from Ray and Peter.

I'm fine thanks Ray but my fishing is suffering due to my business and I've had enough I can tell you. Money is one thing but it can't replace quality of life. I really need to sort this out once and for all. Therefore, when the river season begins on the glorious 16th, I'm only going to work three days per week.

Well done and congratulations on your 25th. Give my regards to Eve. I never made that particular mile stone with the last one. The new one, Liz, is very posh God alone knows what she saw in me. Tom my eldest made it to the Northern Film School in Leeds taking his degree in film and TV whilst the youngest Sam design's covers for American wrappers. He has moved out so I don't have to listen to that awful music anymore!! Time flies my friend.

I have indeed been holding my ear to the prairie floor and there are many who are not happy. Alarmingly there is quite a lot that once supported political angling who now don't have anything to do with it. I count myself in their number. Those in the Ivory Towers would call us renegades or the apathetic few. They are wrong and will count the cost sooner than they think.

Steve Pope knew Fred's stance over this issue and I am very surprised he saw fit to loose an arrow into this circle of nonsense. Frankly it goes against everything the BS stand for or should that perhaps read "stood for?" Knowing Steve however this could all be a publicity stunt aimed at getting his name back up in lights for another reason. Like his forthcoming book for example? My Lord Darth is, after all, a master of angling press manipulation.

Same email, same tee-pee. Always welcome East End Chieftain.

Regards,

Lee.
 

geoffmaynard

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as for salmon anglers having a longer close season than us, it`s because the fish have stopped "running" or in other words SPAWNING.

Not quite accurate Bongoman (luv that name!). When they are running they are heading up the river to find the correct place to spawn. The fishing season for them ends before they build redds to spawn and restarts when the spring fish start to run again. Its true they are full of spawn when running - but then again, so are carp for six months of the year, or more.
 

Ray Wood 1

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Brilliant posts from Ray and Peter.

I'm fine thanks Ray but my fishing is suffering due to my business and I've had enough I can tell you. Money is one thing but it can't replace quality of life. I really need to sort this out once and for all. Therefore, when the river season begins on the glorious 16th, I'm only going to work three days per week.

Well done and congratulations on your 25th. Give my regards to Eve. I never made that particular mile stone with the last one. The new one, Liz, is very posh God alone knows what she saw in me. Tom my eldest made it to the Northern Film School in Leeds taking his degree in film and TV whilst the youngest Sam design's covers for American wrappers. He has moved out so I don't have to listen to that awful music anymore!! Time flies my friend.

I have indeed been holding my ear to the prairie floor and there are many who are not happy. Alarmingly there is quite a lot that once supported political angling who now don't have anything to do with it. I count myself in their number. Those in the Ivory Towers would call us renegades or the apathetic few. They are wrong and will count the cost sooner than they think.

Steve Pope knew Fred's stance over this issue and I am very surprised he saw fit to loose an arrow into this circle of nonsense. Frankly it goes against everything the BS stand for or should that perhaps read "stood for?" Knowing Steve however this could all be a publicity stunt aimed at getting his name back up in lights for another reason. Like his forthcoming book for example? My Lord Darth is, after all, a master of angling press manipulation.

Same email, same tee-pee. Always welcome East End Chieftain.

Regards,

Lee.

Hi lee,
Sorry to hear that your fishing is suffering, get yourself sorted mesun life's to short now. Glad to hear the boys are both doing well and getting on. Give my regards to the new trouble and strife. Likewise I am surprised what she saw in you (have you got hidden talents)

Glad to hear the tee-pee is the same I must get the old pinto in shape for a trot up some time and compare scalps once more.

Having read Steve’s diary today I am not sure he knows where he is anymore, one minute he wants the CS changed, then he won’t push hard to see it done. What do you make of that me china plate? Has pressure and questions asked forced him to have a “let me re-think my position” because his credibility as Chairman of the BS is in jeopardy as he seems to be so far out of sync with its aims and objectives and conservation stance? No couldn’t be could it, I mean he wouldn't would he? Or are his sponsors kicking up a stink because they also sponsor barbel in still waters and both he and the BS are against that aren’t they? Well they were once upon a principle my friend oh the times they are a changing!

Do you know I had an offer the other day to make a pact with Faust, I told him to do one and go elsewhere as there are plenty of takers to be found in barbeldom.

Keep safe
Ray

On a light note for Mr Maynard.
A recipe for Cormorants.

Ingredients,
1 large cormorant preferably shot, pluck and gut and leave to stand while you prepare the stuffing.
Prepare two spoonful's of AT CS propaganda by blending for two months. Add a large dose of I don’t know why we have a close season but I won’t push hard to have it changed even though I am quoted as wanting it changed. Prepare and add three large buckets of I won’t debate the CS, available from several sources one in Shropshire is I am told reliably the best.
Add cast aside principles again best sourced from Shropshire then add two thirds of a pint of a recent barbel spawning survey mix till completely blended stuff the cormorant and then cook in the oven till either the CS gets changed or hell freezes over. I will leave it up to the cook on what option they use but either is quite the best cormorant recipe available. or should that be avoidable?

All prepared in the best of fun, no angling guides or ex MP’s were hurt in the preparation of this recipe and that’s a “Rap” as Kenny Everett would say!
 

The bad one

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I`ll just bet all the otters, mink, cormorants, goosanders, (some) eastern Europeans, e.t.c, e.t.c, absolutely love the close season when they can have a free for all, taking as many coarse fish to eat as they please with virtually no-one about on the banks. lets just hope that the boaters, cyclists, dog-walkers, sightseers, joggers, walkers, picknickers, and general public all who are allowed to "use" the rivers with impunity are enough to put off all these predators. the argument that most stillwaters are artificially stocked is a load of old bull-droppings, as for salmon anglers having a longer close season than us, it`s because the fish have stopped "running" or in other words SPAWNING.
why don`t we have a close season for salmon and sea trout when they spawn?
after all a large percentage of game fish are taken for the table and never get a chance to procreate. besides, when was the last time you took a couple of chub or barbel for the pot at spawning time ? let alone DURING the river season.
it`s not time for a rethink, it`s time to abolish this outdated and unfair (to river anglers) law. I suppose I`ll just have to wait till may when I can legally "knock out" 300 lb of carp dripping with spawn and milt NOT!!

Lets have a look at your points one by one eh?
Otters fully protected species; like it or not there's very little on rivers anybody legally can do about them.

Mink they are vermin, an alien species, the only requirement to deal with them is you dispatch them humanely under the Animal Welfare Act. So trap them and dispatch by shooting them whilst in the cage. This meets the Act's requirement.

Cormorants by late March the vast majority have left the rivers and gone back to the coastal cliffs to breed and don't return until Sept. Some younger birds, (year 1) the ones with a full white chest do remain but make up less than 1% of the over wintering population. If a water is being heavily predated by them apply for a licence to shot them. And please don't tell me you can't get a licence because one club I know of has many for the plethora of waters it controls. The regulations have also been relaxed last years and come into force later this year. The Inland species that remain all year round can and should be dealt with under the licensing system to reduce their numbers.

Goosander again like cormorants can and should be dealt with under the licensing system.

I take it you have raised these issues with your club and pressured them to bring in a Legal Active Predator Management Plan to reduce the predation on the waters they control? If not, why not?

EEUs As yet we don't have a licensing system for reducing their predation impacts. However, we do have the law of the land on our side and recently introduced fisheries byelaws. They can only work if anglers report crimes being committed under them. You, Your club have have done this I take it? And don't tell me it doesn't work because I know it does and I've used it in several areas. For reasons I'm not going to go into, all I say is that ACPO have kicked a*** right down the line on this one. And to anyone who are not getting a serious response to it, Your Secretary should be contacting CC of the force it's happening in.

As to the general public having access to rivers during the close season; If the landowner allows public access there's not a lot you can do about it. If it's private land and you or the club own that land then it's Trespass you have the right to ask them to leave and or remove them with minimal force.

But is this as bigger problem as some are suggesting it is? With the exception of beauty spots close to towns, villages, etc. My experience of patrolling many miles of rivers, even during the close season, it's not! Take the upper Severn for instance above Shrewsbury to Welshpool I could walk all day in many sections of the river and not see anyone. Same on the Nene, Welland, Fen Drains, In the North country Lune, Ribble, Cumbrian Eden.

Clearly not a Salmon Angler then?
The close season for migratory fish is in general, Nov to Jan/Feb and the reason for that is that’s when they spawn. Which happens in the very upper reaches of the rivers/streams and becks they run. It is way out of any coarse fish zones and in depths of water less than 2 ft deep. The peak time for fish shedding is Dec and like coarse fish it’s temperature dependant. But unlike coarse fish the water has to be cold around 39-42 F.
Whilst Salmon anglers can be on the rivers during the coarse close season many don’t bother, particularly if they fish for the pot for this reason.
We’ve renewed the national spring salmon byelaws. You must return any salmon caught by rod and line before 16th June to the water immediately and with least possible injury. EA site Salmon and Sea trout Byelaws.

Whilst many of the once course river only do have some salmon back in them the point about salmon and sea trout anglers being present on many is being blown out of all proportions. How many times has anyone seen salmon and sea trout anglers on the Fen Drains, the Broads, Nene and tributaries, Themes and it’s tributaries, Trent and tributaries, Warwickshire Avon, etc, etc not many I’ll bet?
So may be when you've read this and given it some thought you may want to come back to me eh!
 
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eag1956

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Seems that a lot of rivers are underfished at present, so do not think they would suffer, if the closed season was abolished. Having said that, it seems that there are certain locations, such as the Fishers Green area of the River Lea, which could really do with a rest.
The argument always used to be that it was to allow fish to spawn, but could never see that this would happen in normal March, or April weather.
 

Peter Jacobs

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The argument always used to be that it was to allow fish to spawn, but could never see that this would happen in normal March, or April weather.

Then take a look at the Barbel Society Spawning Survey results. those clearly show the spawning periods over most of the Country.

For practical reasons there could never be a workable flexi-date system so the current Close season protects most species, in most years in most average weather conditions.
 

mick b

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Im getting more than a little suspicious of some of the individuals replying to this thread.
Many have posted below 10 and for some its their first post on the forum :confused:

Either this subject has prompted these individuals to take up their pens or.......well you choose a reason?
.......:rolleyes:


Superb post Peter.
It needs to be said and you say it better than most.


.
 

rollingpinboy

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OMG...So, Steve Pope is not entirely sure why there is a 'Closed Season', even though he favours it past and present. The exposure and adverse publicity to his recent ‘change of view’ seems to have nipped him in the bud a little, as to what he might have wanted to personally say and do, and join the Barbel Society up (without members consent) to the ‘open all year’ commercial bandwagon. It seems that he is ‘purposely’ forgetting what he has been doing and promoting for the past 30 odd years, and for the BS for the last 19 years in retaining the Closed Season at all costs.
The BS Spawning Survey should be directly linked to the Closed Season debate or other, as barbel Spawning normally happens during the Closed Season. Any ‘change’ and fishing at this time will affect Spawning Barbel, Spawn bound Barbel if caught, plus disturbing and damage Barbel Spawning grounds, thus putting any future populations at risk, as is written and fully described in the Barbel Society Conservation document. How can you have the BARBEL SOCIETY CHAIRMAN who wrote this or is/was a major contributor, and STEVE POPE saying and inferring something completely different to outside bodies and in debate ‘WHEN THEY ARE BOTH ONE OF THE SAME PERSON’! Surely there is a ‘Conflict of Interest’ here as to where his personal goals, sponsors and barbel fishing guiding business are taking priority, and which clash with his and others BS Research and Conservation beliefs and risk the future integrity and image of the Barbel Society and its members, who cannot vote on any change of direction or view. Definitely detrimental to the Barbel Society in my opinion and some damage has been done in all this. I do think that Steve is privy to a lot more of what is going on behind closed doors and therefore feels it is not in his personal interest to reveal anything which may affect his future personal interests and goals. This at the expense of knocking over the Barbel Society members beliefs and interests and all conservation minded barbel and other river coarse anglers in the UK without any consultation with others including the Barbel Society membership…in my opinion.
 
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mick b

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Re; rollingpinboys post,

Perhaps, in the interest of honesty and openness Mr Pope should resign all his positions in the Barbel Society?

The (new) committee would then be able, and without any perceived bias whatsoever, be free to make whatever statements it deems fit concerning this Angling Trust initiative.

With Mr Pope off the scene others may well speak with far more freedom?

Its certainly interesting no statements from the Barbel Society have been forthcoming so far :confused:

.:cool:
 

Peter Jacobs

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Here is what Pete Reading has to say on the matter, taken from the Barbel society website:

"There is no need for a statement the position of the Society remains unchanged, as explained in the policy statements that can be found under the Projects section of the drop down menu under Research and Conservation on the website."

Moreover, given the Barbel Society's Spawning Survey work over the past few years, and their knowledge on the topic, it is well worth reading:

"The Barbel Society supports the retention of the current Close Season on rivers, for practical, conservation and moral/ethical reasons.

1. River fish populations are much more difficult to manage than those in enclosed waters; they are subject to greater pressure from pollution and habitat degradation,and have to be naturally self-sustaining.

Any disturbance of spawning shoals by anglers or other water users can only have a detrimental effect on spawning success and recruitment.
The Society view is that all coarse fish, particularly before, after or during spawning, benefit from a cessation of angling pressure, and that all riverside wildlife both flora and fauna benefit from a period of relatively undisturbed peace at times of springtime regeneration and breeding.


2.The moral and ethical arguments in favour of a rivers close season are felt strongly by many anglers, who may also have been opposed to the abolition of the stillwater close season. The Barbel Society respects and supports the view that a period of respectful relaxation is a good thing for both fish and the angler, as well as anglings public image.

3.Fish stocks in rivers are essentially shared between clubs or riparian owners with adjoining or opposite bank fishing, which would mean that an enormously complex and unfair situation would arise where those who wished to retain a close season would find it difficult to do so. Management and policing in such situations would be impossible to maintain.

 

Ray Wood 1

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Here is what Pete Reading has to say on the matter, taken from the Barbel society website:

"There is no need for a statement the position of the Society remains unchanged, as explained in the policy statements that can be found under the Projects section of the drop down menu under Research and Conservation on the website."

Moreover, given the Barbel Society's Spawning Survey work over the past few years, and their knowledge on the topic, it is well worth reading:

"The Barbel Society supports the retention of the current Close Season on rivers, for practical, conservation and moral/ethical reasons.

1. River fish populations are much more difficult to manage than those in enclosed waters; they are subject to greater pressure from pollution and habitat degradation,and have to be naturally self-sustaining.

Any disturbance of spawning shoals by anglers or other water users can only have a detrimental effect on spawning success and recruitment.
The Society view is that all coarse fish, particularly before, after or during spawning, benefit from a cessation of angling pressure, and that all riverside wildlife both flora and fauna benefit from a period of relatively undisturbed peace at times of springtime regeneration and breeding.


2.The moral and ethical arguments in favour of a rivers close season are felt strongly by many anglers, who may also have been opposed to the abolition of the stillwater close season. The Barbel Society respects and supports the view that a period of respectful relaxation is a good thing for both fish and the angler, as well as anglings public image.

3.Fish stocks in rivers are essentially shared between clubs or riparian owners with adjoining or opposite bank fishing, which would mean that an enormously complex and unfair situation would arise where those who wished to retain a close season would find it difficult to do so. Management and policing in such situations would be impossible to maintain.


Peter,
it has been posted that Pete Reading’s opinion is that with earlier and warmer Spring weather now well documented that Barbel barbel are going to spawn earlier. If the Conservation Officier of the BS believes this he must be at odds with his chairman who is calling for the season to be extended.

The aims and objectives of the BS are
1) To promote the barbel and its conservation, the conservation and development of suitable barbel fisheries and the quality of the environment in which they are sited, the highest standards of the sport of barbel angling, to promote public awareness of these standards and the need for barbel and fisheries conservation.

It must be clear to anyone that Steve Pope calling for the CS to be extended is in complete conflict with the Society he heads aims and objectives and the conservation of barbel. There appears to be a distinct backtracking on SP part. I seriously believe he has realised his mistake and fully knows his chairmanship of a Society that fully supports barbel conservation and the CS which he does not cannot continue. He cannot head up an organisation that has opposite views to his own as that is a clear conflict of interest.

The BS claims that “The Society is designed to provide an effective link for ALL barbel anglers and to represent their interests effectively.” as such I would urge all barbel anglers to contact Peter Reading and lodge any concerns you might have regarding the clear conflict between it the society and its chairman.

I will personally be e-mailing Pete to register my concerns, some will obviously say “You are not a member” therefore have no say in BS business. They would of course be right I am no a member, and don't have a say and neither do the membership. The BS is not a democracy and in SP own words it was never meant to be. I am a founder member and I will make my concerns known to the BS Research and Conservation Officer regardless of being a member or not.

Kind regards
Ray
 

sam vimes

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There seem to be the odd huge assumption being made on the part of those that wish to see the continuance of the closed season. Whilst I'd accept that it seems to be common sense that the closed season will be of benefit to fish and recruitment, I've never seen any proof whatsoever that this is actually the case. There's always a chance that the closed season, and the removal of a good food source at precisely the time it might be most needed, actually does more harm than good. That would be hugely ironic if it turns out that the rabid pro group turn out to be supportive of something that actually harms the fish that they are assuming that they are protecting.

It also strikes me that the old (pre 1995) NRA/EA report (including the fisheries scientists), that basically suggests that the closed season be scrapped, which Martin Salter has admitted to helping to shelve for the rivers when he was an MP, is quietly ignored or interpreted quite differently to the way I read it.

Oh, and by the way, can we stop with the accusations of selfishness from the pro-closed season group. The reality is that most of those people that wish to see it remain are no less selfish. Most simply want it to remain because it suits them. Cogent arguments beyond that are sadly lacking. Yet again on here, the more politically active try to turn a debate with emotive language and browbeating.
 

thecrow

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Could I just say that fishing in rivers is about a lot more than just Barbel as this thread seems to have turned into a Barbel thread and is now about when they spawn forgetting about other species that inhabit rivers.
 

black kettle

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I agree with the Crow in that there are indeed more species of river fish other than barbel. Whilst fishing for barbel myself, I would like to see more specimen roach in our rivers than there are presently.

Interesting that when the river Trent ran the colour of what ever dye happened to be spewing out of the dye houses locally, roach used to be the predominant species back then? Big ones too.

Regards,

Lee.
 
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