River Close Season – Is it time for a rethink?

Judas Priest

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Can't see how some think they can put up any logical argument to keep the shutdown on rivers based on fish welfare whilst targeting fish during the same period on stillwaters.

If angling on rivers is to survive in any numbers then the Close needs to go, otherwise with depleted angling numbers and more clubs/groups giving up leases it will leave rivers wide open to other parties to fill the void, and believe me a few spawning fish will be the last thing on their minds.

Wake up guys this is 2014 and with all the options open to young people angling needs, nay has to to survive, attract its share of that young blood and shutting down for 3 months out of 12 ain't the way to do it.
 

chav professor

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I photographed 4 miles of river.... just for reference in the close season. It was going to be a reference, scan through various swims, allow me to interpret why certain stretches appeared more or less prolific. April/may a team of contractors blitzted the banks - both sides of tree foliage that imposed on the river, bushes, every thing..... all great areas for fish to evade predation.

Why?

a) to keep the river flowing..... WTF?
b) to keep the river clear of obstruction for weed cutting.... WTF?
c) tidy the river up, hasn't been done in years.... WTF?
d) part of flood defense policy... WTF

the work was done by outside contractors - and boy did they steam roller through.

I saw that willow as a token victory.... more like p***ing in the wind......lol

Anglers and anglers views are widely disregarded... and it was all carried out in the close season.

---------- Post added at 08:41 ---------- Previous post was at 08:34 ----------

Can't see how some think they can put up any logical argument to keep the shutdown on rivers based on fish welfare whilst targeting fish during the same period on stillwaters.

If angling on rivers is to survive in any numbers then the Close needs to go, otherwise with depleted angling numbers and more clubs/groups giving up leases it will leave rivers wide open to other parties to fill the void, and believe me a few spawning fish will be the last thing on their minds.

Wake up guys this is 2014 and with all the options open to young people angling needs, nay has to to survive, attract its share of that young blood and shutting down for 3 months out of 12 ain't the way to do it.

Getting the close season lifted isn't going to do that!

As for clubs controlling rivers.... locally, I'd opt for the rather more accessible free fishing.

Freedom of access is far more attractive - but even that wouldn't do it.

Some kids will be drawn to angling - but would you have been so strongly drawn these days? Kids don't even go outside to play anymore? you could say the same thing for tree climbing, kite flying, den making, jumpers for goal posts whatever...... Ironically, its safer now than its ever been....
 

Ray Wood 1

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Can't see how some think they can put up any logical argument to keep the shutdown on rivers based on fish welfare whilst targeting fish during the same period on stillwaters.

If angling on rivers is to survive in any numbers then the Close needs to go, otherwise with depleted angling numbers and more clubs/groups giving up leases it will leave rivers wide open to other parties to fill the void, and believe me a few spawning fish will be the last thing on their minds.

Wake up guys this is 2014 and with all the options open to young people angling needs, nay has to to survive, attract its share of that young blood and shutting down for 3 months out of 12 ain't the way to do it.

Phil,
I've just backed the winner of the Grand National £50 each way, I will lay all my winnings that abolishing the CS will attract no more youngsters to angling in any shape or form by doing so.

I'll be perfectly honest with you, with the trust involved and the named anglers who now seem to have a vested interest in it either changing or going completely it will happen.
You know better than anyone how certain individuals work and they would not have come out in the open if they felt there was no chance of it happening.

I hope I am wrong but the call for debate is no more than a blind (in my honest opinion) the trust appear to be committed despite what MS may have written in his re-think article. They did not initiated debate because ordinary anglers wanted it, it was initiated for the “Names” and I suspect some of its member clubs by way of committee pressure from some of those member clubs.

Kind regards
Ray
 

Judas Priest

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I'd agree with most of that Ray except the bit about "debate". At no time have I seen those who were so quick to publish their thoughts and ideas on here actually join in a " debate". Perhaps if they were to seriously enter a debate on the subject rather than just looking in the majority of us would treat them with a little less suspicion as to their motives.
 

chav professor

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If you want to abolish the close season, get some respected groups that represent anglers - PAC, Barbel society, Tench fishers, perch group, fishing clubs, Angling trust - whatever... put forward proposals with support with a consensus of opinion strong enough for the Environmental agency to have a rethink.......

then..... there's a chance....
 

Judas Priest

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Sorry Chav but within those groups would they be representing the views of their membership or the individual views of one or two on the committees ?
Democracy in most cases doesn't exist.
 

chav professor

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Sorry Chav but within those groups would they be representing the views of their membership or the individual views of one or two on the committees ?
Democracy in most cases doesn't exist.


Democracy is an illusion - this country is a s***hole as the views of the people are not considered.... Can't trust the people to come to the 'right' decision - which is why we have have 3 parties representing the will of the same vested interests. I fully welcome a revolution!
 

Ray Wood 1

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Sorry Chav but within those groups would they be representing the views of their membership or the individual views of one or two on the committees ?
Democracy in most cases doesn't exist.

Democracy now there is a word to conjure up some thoughts.:)

Here is one of those groups interpretation of it.

Quote,

"The BS is democratic in so much that it is ultimately governed by the membership, governed in this sense meaning " to be a predominant influence on".

Any committee that acts without listening to the great majority of its membership would be extremely foolish and the BS committee are not fools, of that you may be assured.

Or it could be called a benevolent dictatorship, benevolent as in showing goodwill, friendship and kindly.
Dictatorship as in oxymoron.

Whatever you choose, it works well.

Obviously you can't please all the people all the time, some you can never please, but thats life and I won't be losing any sleep.

I sometimes think the close season is becoming open season” (unquote)

You can interoperate that as you will, but I think you will find that it ultimately means the membership have no say.

Kind regards
Ray
 

Ray Wood 1

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Hasn't that always been the case with the BS and the cause of past problems?

Tell me Crow,
Have you ever heard of a benevolent dictatorship?

Dictatorship - Dictionary Definition A dictatorship is a government or a social situation where one person makes all the rules and decisions without input from anyone else.
 

mick b

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Democracy is an illusion - this country is a s***hole as the views of the people are not considered.... Can't trust the people to come to the 'right' decision - which is why we have have 3 parties representing the will of the same vested interests.

I fully welcome a revolution!



You and me both!
 

geoffmaynard

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Have you ever heard of a benevolent dictatorship?

I just got this from Wiki:
Cyrus the Great created the Cyrus Cylinder, considered to be the first declaration of human rights. He was the first king whose name has the suffix "Great" and the first Shah of Iran to be known by that title. Cyrus also banned slavery in all of the conquered areas that became the Persian Empire. Cyrus' seminal ideas greatly influenced later human civilizations; Cyrus' principles of ruling – advocating "love" rather than "fear" – influenced the original U.S. Constitution.
That was about 550 years before Christ.
---
I think it was Plato who decided after a lifetime of considering the options that a benevolent dictatorship was the best form of govt. The eternal problem is the one of who replaces the dictator when he snuffs it. Democracy stinks, nothing more than mob rule - and the mob is controlled by the media, which is controlled by Murdoch and Co :)
 

Judas Priest

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.............and Murdoch is a benevolent dictator which is fine as it is his own company, whereas when you are supposedly representing a group as it's head you are there to represent the majority view of that group not your own personal view.

I've said it before, if you take out a couple of rivers and even then not the whole of those rivers you'll be hard pushed to consider them overfished during the current 9 months. Calculate that 9 months as 2 days a weekend when they are supposedly busiest and pressured fish they certainly are not.
 
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chav professor

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I just got this from Wiki:
Cyrus the Great created the Cyrus Cylinder, considered to be the first declaration of human rights. He was the first king whose name has the suffix "Great" and the first Shah of Iran to be known by that title. Cyrus also banned slavery in all of the conquered areas that became the Persian Empire. Cyrus' seminal ideas greatly influenced later human civilizations; Cyrus' principles of ruling – advocating "love" rather than "fear" – influenced the original U.S. Constitution.
That was about 550 years before Christ.
---
I think it was Plato who decided after a lifetime of considering the options that a benevolent dictatorship was the best form of govt. The eternal problem is the one of who replaces the dictator when he snuffs it. Democracy stinks, nothing more than mob rule - and the mob is controlled by the media, which is controlled by Murdoch and Co :)

waiting for the revolution Che!
 

Ray Wood 1

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I just got this from Wiki:
Cyrus the Great created the Cyrus Cylinder, considered to be the first declaration of human rights. He was the first king whose name has the suffix "Great" and the first Shah of Iran to be known by that title. Cyrus also banned slavery in all of the conquered areas that became the Persian Empire. Cyrus' seminal ideas greatly influenced later human civilizations; Cyrus' principles of ruling – advocating "love" rather than "fear" – influenced the original U.S. Constitution.
That was about 550 years before Christ.
---
I think it was Plato who decided after a lifetime of considering the options that a benevolent dictatorship was the best form of govt. The eternal problem is the one of who replaces the dictator when he snuffs it. Democracy stinks, nothing more than mob rule - and the mob is controlled by the media, which is controlled by Murdoch and Co :)

History shows what happens to dictators, their evil comes to an end at some stage they cannot rule forever.

“Men at some time are masters of their fates. The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, but in ourselves, that we are underlings.”

“Cowards die many times before their deaths; the valiant never taste of death but once.”

“The ides of March are come.
Soothsayer: Ay, Caesar; but not gone.”

“Now let it work. Mischief, thou art afoot. Take thou what course thou wilt.”
― William Shakespeare, Julius Caesar

All very fitting, and good will always overcome evil all it takes is for good men to stand up and be counted.



The hate of men will pass, and dictators die, and the power they took from the people will return to the people. And so long as men die, liberty will never perish.

Charlie Chaplin

SO there is hope for the downtrodden who voice some will not hear.
 
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thecrow

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Tell me Crow,
Have you ever heard of a benevolent dictatorship?

Dictatorship - Dictionary Definition A dictatorship is a government or a social situation where one person makes all the rules and decisions without input from anyone else.



I have heard the phrase before, never seen one though, now malevolent that's different, seen a few of them. :wh
 

chav professor

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Ray Wood 1

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How to Start a Revolution if you want one.

Those calling for change to the CS should take heed listen to the ordinary anglers or be doomed to failure.

Steps

1
Know your Goal. You are about to dedicate your life to this goal. Decide well and make your decision from the heart. A good question to ask yourself is, “What about the political system in which I live do I think is wrong? And what kind of system do I want to create for the people of my country?” Remember, the goal you chose is the Heart of your revolution.

2
Build Support and Consensus: Nothing is going to happen if the only rebels are you and your buddies. This is an important step and the setup for either a successful revolution or a small civilian rebellion flop. For the first part of this step you must build support by handing out flyers and pamphlets, by word of mouth and advertisements and through today’s technology. Do whatever it takes to get the word out of your revolution and build support. Once cultivated, your support doesn’t have to meet together or agree on actions or even know each other, but they must be united under a common goal and shared fundamental principles.
3
Educate yourself and others about every aspect of the idea of the revolution. Know what and why this fight must happen and how it can be won. Identify the goals and the most efficient means of achieving them without compromise. Appreciate and respect a diversity of tactics. The revolution must be directed towards making things better. This is what is called a "positive vector".
4
Understand that one of the most important aspects of a revolution is that the people are angry. However, the cause for anger ought to be of true convictions, and in their anger there must also be discipline to their cause.
5
Put together intentions which must be very popular among the population. It must aim towards the improvement of certain aspects of society, economics, culture, or any other aspects of a social group. Appreciate and respect a diversity of tactics.
6
Find like-minded people who are ready for action. Set up a field of communication. You must work in a non-hierarchical group in which all voices are equally heard.
7
Take Action. This is the most important step because the revolution dies without it. You must take action whether it is a nonviolent protest or a sit-in or a boycott. Your leader must motivate the support and dutifully work day and night to improve your Revolution. The power in place will defend itself, for that is the nature of power. Illegitimate "governments" are not happy about a rebellion from their people and will do anything to crush resistance. Remember that armed struggle is not an option. No matter how well armed or trained you are, you cannot withstand an organized country's military - especially if a superpower and its allies are backing the regime in place. Last of all, do not let up. Often you may be discouraged by loss or lack of morale but remember, many other countries have revolted and after several losses still have still overcome overwhelming adversity. Remember, your goal is the heart of your operation, your consensus is the mind of the revolution, and the actions you and your support take are the hands of your revolution.
8
Work for collective liberation, because everyone's liberation is tied to each other's. If we are going to be free, we all need to be free. If we are to have a voice, all must have a voice.
9
Demonstrate the popularity of the movement to the people of power, legislature, and military. The greater the popularity among the society, the more the likelihood of violent repression is reduced.
10
Realize that a drastic political or social revolution is almost always about freedom. In general, revolutions are about major changes in some aspect of society. A peaceful revolution requires solidarity and agreement.


Revolution has been sort in many countries to remove oppressors, only to be replaced by another oppressor in the shape of a dictator. if you want revolution makes sure you follow all the above, or fail.

It takes the will of many to remove the unelected, and you will find that the unelected have made it almost impossible for the many to remove them. Constitutions are changed to ensure that a dictator can remain in power.

"Dictators free themselves, but they enslave the people."

Charlie Chaplin
 
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