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grayson

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But match fishing, especially on small commercials , is a 'sport which nobody outside angling can take even remotely seriously . I often encounter talk of anglers being at 'a high level ', as if we mere civilians could not even aspire to such lofty heights and then I wonder how these superstars might cope with some of the fishing I do.....
 

markcw

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But match fishing, especially on small commercials , is a 'sport which nobody outside angling can take even remotely seriously . I often encounter talk of anglers being at 'a high level ', as if we mere civilians could not even aspire to such lofty heights and then I wonder how these superstars might cope with some of the fishing I do.....
What fishing do you do. ?
 

grayson

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Lots - from a bit of tenching and silver fish to pike and perch lure fishing, But the discipline I had in mind was my first love - Fly fishing in extremely overgrown streams for very spooky fish.
 

grayson

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While I don't doubt the skills and dedication of some match anglers ,some of the factors which , for me , are part of the thinking angler's armoury are entirely absent. You don't choose the location of the water, nor your swim , nor the time of day , your tactics are designed solely to amass the greatest weight and you don't need watercraft or stealth while humping your truck load of gear to your peg in company with scores of others doing the same thing . And there are some 'skills' which are a pastiche of angling in less artificial waters with wild fish stocks , such as slapping the water with the pole and using splashy floats to attract fish entirely reliant on being fed by anglers and fishery owners.

If that is angling at a high level , you can include me out. That said, I bow to nobody in my admiration for anglers like Ivan Marks ,who excelled on natural waters.
 

whitty

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If you compete in leagues,nationals etc you will swiftly find out what high level is,because you would spend so much time at the bottom rung of the ladder you would either pack it in,or strive to improve,that is the difference,angling is skill related,if you up your game to reach higher levels,as you fly fish,you would have a good knowledge of the nymphs/drys you are immitating and how to achieve best results using them,but some fly anglers are at another level,we lesser mortals can only dream of achieving such brilliance,consistently...
 
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grayson

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Of course angling is still related - my point was to raise an eyebrow at the assertion that good competition anglers were on a different level to the rest of us. I don't doubt that they are at the discipline they practice but why on earth should that expertise translate into other areas? I'm sure many Fish o Mania contestants would be every bit as rubbish as rollcasting under low hanging branches as I would be at fishing a pole .

I've fished with some name fly anglers and often have been impressed by their skills - but not so much I'd cast myself as a lesser mortal . Did you have any particular genius in mind ?
 

markcw

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Why use Fisho contestants as an example, there are other big matches out there, Riverfest being one, Golden Reel another.
I see where you are coming from about casting a fly and fishing a pole,
A lot of the anglers who fish the big matches may be on a commercial ( large one) not a 20 peg knock up. one week and a river or canal the next, so they have to adapt their methods to that venue.
 

markg

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Personally, I think fly fishing over rated, I learned in half an hour to do the basic cast and caught a 3lb chub the very first time I tried it. I had been told for years it was very difficult and shied away the same for carp. I went on and fished some overgrown streams like Grayson and some skill is involved but it is only stealth and finding visible fish. Flick a fly at them and those trout virtually give themselves up, they attack anything in the water.
Now, match fishing, how long would it take me to learn that and win anything, a long time I reckon. Some of the things Grayson's describe as making it easy in fact make it difficult., you don't get to seek out fish and catch them and then find another one and catch that; you have to be lumbered with what is in front of you and then get the best out of it, get the fish to feed the best you can, that takes a lot of thought and skill. I have never tried it but it looks like you need to learn a lot more than fly fishing to me.
I don't want to say one is more skillful than the other, they all have their different demands but they all have their stars, people who just take more time and learn more and they are usually the most successful ones same in any sport or hobby.
Even commercials have their stars, you often find the same people catch the really big fish, they have taken the time and learned to really fish that water well. I blanked on many a commercial, usually the mixed lakes, and had to learn how to get the best out of them but I was never as good as some of those.
 
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whitty

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There are a lot of good anglers out there,when you come to the better ones at match fishing,the gulf is there to be evaluated,as for watching supposed top anglers and thinking they are not that good,that would only be possible to see if you fished with them regularly and compared your results,you dont have to look proficient,you just have to put fish on the bank and know how and why...
 

steve2

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I fished against anglers that I thought were great at what they did on their waters. When I took them to my small streams they were completely lost so a bit of horses for courses.We had skills but in totally different areas.
 

Philip

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There are a lot of good anglers out there,when you come to the better ones at match fishing,the gulf is there to be evaluated,as for watching supposed top anglers and thinking they are not that good,that would only be possible to see if you fished with them regularly and compared your results,you dont have to look proficient,you just have to put fish on the bank and know how and why...

Totally agree. Sometimes its very small things that are not immediatly apparent that make the difference between good and very good anglers and the better they get the smaller the margins that make the difference become.

It can be very tiny details that separate things and unless you really pay attention or watch the angler over a prolonged period you can miss what actually sets them apart & makes them consistant catchers rather than occasional ones.

So many anglers look the part nowadays and even to an extent can act the part based on what they read or see on youtube but the giveaway is usually adaptability to the actual situation they are faced with.

Thats not a put down by the way, we all have to go through a learning stage and truth be told we never stop learning. Crikey I wince when I think of the number of times I have messed up a situation were in hindsight the fish was begging to be caught ! 😳
 

markcw

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At one time Lymm AC used to hold Thursday night matches on Lymm Dam , These were attended by the cream of north west angling, including Kevin Ashurst, Mark Addy, a few England home international anglers and a future England World champs angler.
I fished a few of these mainly to say I had fished against these anglers, but also to up my game. I did beat a couple of them now and then but I think that was down to the peg not my ability.
There was also a Tuesday evening league match on the Sankey Canal.
The same anglers turned up for this as well.
 

markg

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Probably the easiest type of fishing is boat fishing at sea. The hardest bit is putting the bait on but even that a good skipper puts it on for you. Just drop down and wait for a bite and pull up. However, you need strength, winching a big fish up from 50 meters down with a two pound lead on and a strong current takes some doing especially if it is a skate.
 

Ray Roberts

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Probably the easiest type of fishing is boat fishing at sea. The hardest bit is putting the bait on but even that a good skipper puts it on for you. Just drop down and wait for a bite and pull up. However, you need strength, winching a big fish up from 50 meters down with a two pound lead on and a strong current takes some doing especially if it is a skate.

It’s easy to denigrate any type of fishing in this way. Like match fishing the most successful at it are usually the same group of people.

I don’t sea fish at all presently, but there was a period in my life when I boat fished at least once a fortnight and often more frequently.

Boat-casting for bass and stingray in the Thames estuary had a certain set of skills, in a way not dissimilar to feeder fishing on a river.

The dropping it in and just waiting for a bite is not much different to carp fishing or dead baiting for pike at a basic level but doing only that isn’t the most successful way of doing it. Varying your tactics by; presenting the bait differently, using a variety of baits, using live-baits, using artificial baits, fishing a static or moving bait, casting up-tide to avoid the noise from the boat’s hull are just some of the methods you can employ . There are just as many ways to improve your chances as there are in coarse fishing, you just have to know them and how or when to use them to your best advantage.


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grayson

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Personally, I think fly fishing over rated, I learned in half an hour to do the basic cast and caught a 3lb chub the very first time I tried it. I had been told for years it was very difficult and shied away the same for carp. I went on and fished some overgrown streams like Grayson and some skill is involved but it is only stealth and finding visible fish. Flick a fly at them and those trout virtually give themselves up, they attack anything in the water.
Crikey - what on earth have I been doing all these years ? If only we'd met you could have saved me so much time . . .if only I'd known how very simple it all was. Maybe you could educate some of my fish into behaving the way they should ?
 

steve2

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At one time Lymm AC used to hold Thursday night matches on Lymm Dam , These were attended by the cream of north west angling, including Kevin Ashurst, Mark Addy, a few England home international anglers and a future England World champs angler.
I fished a few of these mainly to say I had fished against these anglers, but also to up my game. I did beat a couple of them now and then but I think that was down to the peg not my ability.
There was also a Tuesday evening league match on the Sankey Canal.
The same anglers turned up for this as well.
Doesn't picking the right peg just prove there is a lot of luck in match fishing. They can also only catch and win from a decent peg. I have heard it said many times "we drew the rubbish pegs".
 

nottskev

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And the more they practise, the luckier they get.
Anyone who thinks top match anglers need a lesson in humility can just book in and prove their point.
 

markg

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Crikey - what on earth have I been doing all these years ? If only we'd met you could have saved me so much time . . .if only I'd known how very simple it all was. Maybe you could educate some of my fish into behaving the way they should ?
If we had met I am sure I could have taught you most of what you know in a morning. As to fish behavior, trout are no more easily spooked than any fish in shallow clear water if that is what you mean, it's just that trout are often in water like that that gives the impression they are more difficult than other fish. As to fooling them into taking your fly, that's just luck.
I only spoke as I found, I did not have much trouble or time learning to fly fish or how to be stealthy, spot places they may be if not actually see them, they are not difficult to work out, I expect you will call it water-craft like it is some mysterious art that only very intelligent people can learn and takes years.; I could sum it up on one page of a book. I caught a fish within an hour, quite a difficult cast actually. None of its rocket science, it doesn't take a A level, I started by looking at a couple of diagrams in a book that's all, once on the bank with a very old split cane fly rod (I had inherited it) I had it mastered in no time, fishing small streams was no more difficult, learned a bit of gentle roll casting and how to flick a fly to where I wanted, actually it was easier, no big long casts needed most of the time. I still fly fish now and then for mullet or coarse fish, catch a few small chub and perch here and there, nothing difficult never caught a mullet though.
Matching a fly to what the fish are taking, as long as you have good selection with you and your not blind, what's the big deal.
I am not saying it was all that easy but most of it was not difficult.
Any Neanderthal from a commercial could learn it in a day; probably less.
 
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