About 30+ years ago an angler was selling swinging arm indicators for stillwater roach fishing. I didn't pay much attention at the time because then I was heavily into carp fishing. These swinging arm style indicators were very popular with the anglers fishing the Tring Reservoirs for roach. My question being does anyone remember the 'name' of these indicators or knows how the line was attached to them - or even better could provide a photo? Many thanks.
Swinging Bite Indicator for Stillwater Roach?
- Thread starter peterjg
- Start date
@Clive
Well-known member
Are you thinking of the Swing Tip Peter? They were common in the 1960's but fell out of fashion when quiver tips became more popular.
To attach a swing tip you either need to have a screw-in tip guide or fix the flexible part to your rod permanently. Swing tips and screw-in tip guidss are available on ebay.
I use the method for roach using an old fibreglass Avon rod that has the screw-in attachment. You have to cast smoothly and feather the line to avoid a backlash around the swing tip that causes line breakages.
To attach a swing tip you either need to have a screw-in tip guide or fix the flexible part to your rod permanently. Swing tips and screw-in tip guidss are available on ebay.
I use the method for roach using an old fibreglass Avon rod that has the screw-in attachment. You have to cast smoothly and feather the line to avoid a backlash around the swing tip that causes line breakages.
@Clive
Well-known member
Kevin Perkins
Well-known member
My BIL Bob, used to make swing arm attachments out of clear perspex that clipped onto rod rests. These were used when roach (and bream 
) fishing at Tring. Will have a root around in my tackle boxes when I get home for pic if I still have one. Out fishing at the moment....
) fishing at Tring. Will have a root around in my tackle boxes when I get home for pic if I still have one. Out fishing at the moment....
mikench
Well-known member
Something similar was and maybe still is made and sold by Premier floats. It’s called a Premier Tipmaster x- treme. Needless to say I have one but rarely used it.
I have a good selection of swing tips and spring tips but never use them now. The above cost £11.99.
I have a good selection of swing tips and spring tips but never use them now. The above cost £11.99.
Well done fellas - I knew you lot would know - there's so much knowledge and info on this forum. The ones that I am thinking of was Bob Henderson (thank you Philip). When roach fishing stillwaters some of the bites I'm getting when legering are so fast it's impossible to react in time so I'm attempting to make some indicators that release more line to slow bites down a bit. I might be barking up the wrong tree but it's worth a try?
no-one in particular
Well-known member
I was thinking you meant something that attached to the arm of your chair. This got me thinking, bullcliped to the arm, a bit of old fishing rod attached to the bull clip from a link swivel and a very small bull clip the other end just clipped onto the line, when a fish bites the bar goes up, you strike and the small bull clip pulls away. I can reset it without having to get out of my chair. Am I barking up the wrong fishing rod or just barking. Might have a go, got all the ingredients at home.
@Clive
Well-known member
There are differences in how indicators work dependent on how the rod is set up. A swing-tip has no resistance other than its weight. Similarly a quiver-tip only offers resistance based on its flexibility. Anything that involves being fitted after the tip guide, like a bobbin or the indicator that I pictured can suffer from resistance from friction as well as the weight or flexibility. If you have the line coming off the rod even at a slight angle you can often see the rod tip move before the indicator.
Also, a bobbin or similar device that fits between rod guides has a gearing of 1:2 in that for every inch of line that the fish takes, the bobbin only moves half the distance, but the resistance of the weight is halved.
It is far more complicated than you might think.
Also, a bobbin or similar device that fits between rod guides has a gearing of 1:2 in that for every inch of line that the fish takes, the bobbin only moves half the distance, but the resistance of the weight is halved.
It is far more complicated than you might think.
The first legering bite indicator I had - rod top aside - in around 1971 was a "butt indicator". A short aluminium rod about 2mm thick, attached to the rod butt with a Terry clip and with a necklace-type sprung ring to let you put the line through it without setting up again. It had a hinge that let it move through about 60 degrees. Other versions used rubber tube instead of the hinge. They were better than the rod top, but easily beaten by any flow. Go to method for bream on canal wides or far bank round our way.
But there's a better answer that works well when the problem is fast roach bites/bait dropped before you can strike. Springtips aren't as versatile as quivers, with limits on the distance, tow and flow they can cope with, but if you're fishing inside 30 yards on stills or, for whatever reasons, fishing light leger at pole distances of 10 -14 m, they can double the number of bites hit. I have springtips I've made for all my wand-type rods, and I find them great for winter roach fishing amongst other things, though I'm not selective about the size of roach.
The idea is that unlike a quiver where the resistance to the biting fish increases as it bends due to its taper, the spring tip, once it begins to move, fold over easily and delays the moment when the fish feels the rod tip and spits the bait. That little bit of extra time makes all the difference. It's quite an eye-opener. There were some made commercially, but were generally a bit clunky with unnecessarily stiff springs. TriCast, with some North West expert match anglers' input, made a dedicated springtip rod with a range of tips in the late 90's. You can make them yourself and use a push-over fitting, made from a bit of discarded pole tip. Big TS's will have plenty of unwanted pole number 1 sections. Hours of fun for the inventor and experimenter.
But there's a better answer that works well when the problem is fast roach bites/bait dropped before you can strike. Springtips aren't as versatile as quivers, with limits on the distance, tow and flow they can cope with, but if you're fishing inside 30 yards on stills or, for whatever reasons, fishing light leger at pole distances of 10 -14 m, they can double the number of bites hit. I have springtips I've made for all my wand-type rods, and I find them great for winter roach fishing amongst other things, though I'm not selective about the size of roach.
The idea is that unlike a quiver where the resistance to the biting fish increases as it bends due to its taper, the spring tip, once it begins to move, fold over easily and delays the moment when the fish feels the rod tip and spits the bait. That little bit of extra time makes all the difference. It's quite an eye-opener. There were some made commercially, but were generally a bit clunky with unnecessarily stiff springs. TriCast, with some North West expert match anglers' input, made a dedicated springtip rod with a range of tips in the late 90's. You can make them yourself and use a push-over fitting, made from a bit of discarded pole tip. Big TS's will have plenty of unwanted pole number 1 sections. Hours of fun for the inventor and experimenter.
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Steve Arnold
Well-known member
These ice fishing bite indicators look more sensitive than quivertips. I think the 2nd version in the video could be left with a "U" shape where the hole is and the rod could be twisted to leave the U free of the line when casting and then the U hooked over it when fishing.
Just an idea, may not be practical in actuality, might give it a try as I love "inventions" - particularly when made from stuff in the bin!
Just an idea, may not be practical in actuality, might give it a try as I love "inventions" - particularly when made from stuff in the bin!
mikench
Well-known member
Swing tips , if i recall correctly, need to be pointed directly at the bait ie in a straight line whereas spring tips can be at an angle. Is that correct Kev.
That's right Mike. You need the angle to show the bite. And often the most efficient strike is a mix of sideways and up, pulling line through the water with any tow. Same often goes for waggler fishing. Striking up and lifting the line through the water is often a less efficient option. You can feel the extra pressure through the rod, striking up, and on shallow water it's more likely to pull your rig out of the water (and back at your head) and make a hooked fish splash, which I prefer to avoid. The deeper the water, though, the more "up" you need to go.
You can fish your swingtip either way - at an angle or pointing straight out. I favour angle/sideways, but the straight out option means swingtips can be handy when swims are too narrow to go sideways.
Setting up your rod in different circs, how and when to strike .... all this used to be part of the art. Less so when popular methods involve fish hooking themselves with a bait inches from a heavy weight, when a bell on the end of the rod. would be much as useful as swing, quiver or springtip.
You can fish your swingtip either way - at an angle or pointing straight out. I favour angle/sideways, but the straight out option means swingtips can be handy when swims are too narrow to go sideways.
Setting up your rod in different circs, how and when to strike .... all this used to be part of the art. Less so when popular methods involve fish hooking themselves with a bait inches from a heavy weight, when a bell on the end of the rod. would be much as useful as swing, quiver or springtip.
Keith M
Well-known member
I used to use Swingtips quite often years ago when I was after shy biting Crucians on my local estate lake as it exaggerated the delicate bites very well.
I used to set it up so that its tip ring was almost touching the water which made any delicate lifts easy to see; however most bites sent the swingtip moving all the way up. Plus I used to have my rod pointing at an angle to the side like in the diagram as I could see the swingtip movements a little easier.
I still have a few Swingtips somewhere together with the light 10ft leger rod I used to use
.
Keith
I used to set it up so that its tip ring was almost touching the water which made any delicate lifts easy to see; however most bites sent the swingtip moving all the way up. Plus I used to have my rod pointing at an angle to the side like in the diagram as I could see the swingtip movements a little easier.
I still have a few Swingtips somewhere together with the light 10ft leger rod I used to use
.
Keith
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Again thanks for all your replies, most appreciated. In the past I've used springtips and yes they do work. Previously I've even made tapered quivertips with the thin end attached to rod in an attempt to emphasise bites and reduce increasing resistance - they worked but were horrible to use and cast with! I remember when quivertips first came out, they were usually only about 6 or 7 inches long and were made of parallel glass - actually they worked quite well!
I'm currently using mainly 8mm pellets for the roach (on stillwaters) and I realised that after initially testing them very often the roach would move off with the pellet in their lips (I think?). Next step was to increase the hooklength to 24 inches and this certainly increased hook ups. However; some of the bites are incredibly fast and it's just not possible to react in time so I need a cunning system to release more line and hopefully slow these bites down. This roach fishing lark is just so interesting, big carp are simple in comparison!
I've made swinging arm indicators before which released when a bite occurred for pike but roach very often take the bait in their lips and shake the bait, I don't want the indicator to release too early and I end up striking into nothing.
There's certainly nothing new in fishing (very rare), Philip remindered me of the chap's name - Bob Henderson, he made some longish swinging arm indicators which were very popular with the Tring Reservoir roach anglers - I shall attempt to copy.
I'm currently using mainly 8mm pellets for the roach (on stillwaters) and I realised that after initially testing them very often the roach would move off with the pellet in their lips (I think?). Next step was to increase the hooklength to 24 inches and this certainly increased hook ups. However; some of the bites are incredibly fast and it's just not possible to react in time so I need a cunning system to release more line and hopefully slow these bites down. This roach fishing lark is just so interesting, big carp are simple in comparison!
I've made swinging arm indicators before which released when a bite occurred for pike but roach very often take the bait in their lips and shake the bait, I don't want the indicator to release too early and I end up striking into nothing.
There's certainly nothing new in fishing (very rare), Philip remindered me of the chap's name - Bob Henderson, he made some longish swinging arm indicators which were very popular with the Tring Reservoir roach anglers - I shall attempt to copy.
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@Clive
Well-known member
And who can forget Ivan Marks falling backwards off his wicker basket when striking a bream from the far bank of the Welland?
Not only have you got the angle of the line to consider, but the elasticity too. Typically they would be using 3lb - 4lb mainline and up to 2 oz leads. Calcotts of Sheffield used to sell Ernie Stamford swing tip rods. You could buy the screw-in version or custom made ones that were fixed with a nylon hinge and hollow nylon body. They progressed to what were called Donkey tops, the forerunner of the quiver tip. Once you had your Ernie Stamford rod Calcotts could sell you any type of top section that they custom fitted to the spigot of your butt section. Modular design in the early 70's.
The bad one
Well-known member
Sorry guy the ones that were being used at Tring were the Bob Henderson arms. I knew Bob through a mate of mine (both now dead). 7-8 years ago I made a ruck of copies of them for myself and a few mates. Whilst I don't think I have any surplus left other than the 3 for myself..... And nobody is having them! I do have the writeups, drawings and photographs of them which I'll sort out and publish on here in the next few days or more.
PS I love using them on one of the club’s circuit carp waters which has some very large bream in it. Just to wind up the young gobsh1te carpers.
PS I love using them on one of the club’s circuit carp waters which has some very large bream in it. Just to wind up the young gobsh1te carpers.
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markcw
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I still have a version of that butt indicator . Still use it . Still use the various swing tips I have as well.
markcw
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Try casting the swingtip with the rod rings and reel on top instead of normal casting position . You get more distance and a smoother cast . When the lead /feeder hits the water just turn the road to normal position and set tension .
This top was given to me by a top northwest match man about 55 years ago .
I can do 35 yards with a small method feeder, using this casting technique and no tangles.
no-one in particular
Well-known member
I was once thinking this idea along the lines of less resistance at first to a biting fish, probably barmy so nothing new. But to counteract the fish feeling the tension of a bite pulling directly on the rod tip, my idea was to have a loop of line just above the hook or further maybe that was tied with a very light piece of elastic or rubber band say 4 inches long across the narrow part, say the loop of line was 6-12 inches long, the fish took the bait and straightened out the elastic first before the loop of line stretched tight and the full resistance set in. Never got further than an idle thought though.