Swinging Bite Indicator for Stillwater Roach?

[nottskev]

I'm sure you've considered this Peter, but an alternative to trying to prolong bites/building slack in is to do the opposite. There are lots of decent dace in my local river, and in some circs you can't float fish for them. Legering with any conventional rigs will make you pull your hair out over fast bites you just can't hit. The answer is a miniature bolt rig - a little feeder running on a short length of twizzled line between a stop below and a knot that provides a "bump" on the line above. The dace hook themselves against the bump, but as it's only a bump, not a stop, it will pass through the swivel on the feeder if you hook a bigger fish and avoid sit's where the bigger fish snags the feeder in weed or whatever and cracks you off. I'm not generally a user of self-hooking rigs, but if you set this up right you go from hitting about 40% of bites to coming back with a fish nearly every time.

Professor Scotthorne, 5x world champion, shows how to tie it here. The rig bit starts around 4.30

 

[The bad one]

The Henderson Replicas are made from knitting needles 6s and flat bar aluminium 20 mm by 8 mm. A little bit of engineering skill is needed to make them.
They are designed to fall away when the arm reaches the top of its arch, leaving the line to run free and unimpeded. The angle of the slot on the underside is critical to the arm falling away, without the slot the arms don’t work at all.
These would be easy to make if you have access to a laser printer. Once you’ve made a model that can be mapped from ally, wood, plastic, etc.


My Indicators as can be seen are also made from knitting needles aquarium tube a length of cable ties, a terry clip and bullet of a weight of your choice and a sight bead.

 

[Philip]

Great post. Thats a keeper. Thanks Phil !

 

[The bad one]

As all the indicators were made for bream, tench and roach fishing, the rods need to be pointed directly at the feeder, bomb, etc to make them work at their most efficient.

The elbows on mine arms are made from couplings used in the oxygenation of an aquarium.
The ring to stop the weights moving are the outer sleaves of electrical cable

 

[The bad one]

It is worth noting that whilst using arms at distance, 30 yards plus, you get 'Arm Creep.' this is caused by cross undercurrent bowing the line and causing the arms to move upwards. To counter this you have to add weight to the arm. On some of the more exposed pits, meres I've fished the counter weight have been as much as an once and a half. So it worth making yourself a selection of weights to add or subtract to find the right balance to stop the creep.
Bet you don't find that detailed knowledge in a book about cane rods!

I don't usually do this - carry an argument over from one threat to another but this pill.... really rattled me with this comment "I think your spelling of cane just about sums up your actual knowledge on Fishing......" hence my above and last sentence.

 

[peterjg]

Nottskev, thanks for your post and info. Yes, I do occasionally use bolt rigs for roach, they seem to work best in the winter months when using smaller baits - well for me anyway? I go fishing usually 3 times a week and it seems that roach feed differently every time! For the last week or two (on different lakes and the river Kennet) roach, for some totally unknown reason, have gone right off pellets but previously they wanted them. Perhaps now there is a natural food more available? One time short hooklengths when legering are best then the next time long hooklengths work better. It's a great mystery!!!
The Bad One, thanks also for your post and info. Your diagrams are really good and easy to follow. I shall have a go at copying and make a pair. I particularly like the design of the end of the arm where the line releases at a predetermined point thus giving more 'free' line. You've set the grey cells working!

 

[flightliner]

About 30+ years ago an angler was selling swinging arm indicators for stillwater roach fishing. I didn't pay much attention at the time because then I was heavily into carp fishing. These swinging arm style indicators were very popular with the anglers fishing the Tring Reservoirs for roach. My question being does anyone remember the 'name' of these indicators or knows how the line was attached to them - or even better could provide a photo? Many thanks.

PeterJg.
I made these a few years ago now for my Roach, Tench and Bream

 

[no-one in particular]

On the missed bites theme and as I have never tried it before and as I had to make up a new hook length I thought I would have a try at just a vague idea, nothing ventured as they say. Only could find these two elastic bands so tied them together. The first try I realised casting and the weight of the weight would probably just pull the loop through so I added a couple of float stops, this was a lot better.
Sea fishing I get a lot of snatch bites, the rod tip goes twang and then nothing, re the fish swimming along grabbing the bait and before they know it it is snatched out of their mouth and you think they will come back but they don't, are they now alerted to the danger!
No idea if this will work but it may just give them that bit more time to get the bait properly in their mouth. The bands stretch to about 8/10 inches and it does offer a lot less resistance at first, I have tried stretching it by hand as if a bite and it seems to work. We will see and whether anything like this would be an advantage coarse fishing maybe maybe not. I would make something more subtle for that but see how it goes on this rough version sea fishing.

 

[@Clive]

Have you seem the Magic Twig? Basically a refined and commercially available version of the above.

 

[nottskev]

Getting further away from the OP, but following NIP's elastic rig, here's how to use elastic to avoid a tight line putting biting fish off when using pole feeder - ie using a feeder with a pole to fish rivers in flood.

 

[@Clive]

Getting further away from the OP, but following NIP's elastic rig, here's how to use elastic to avoid a tight line putting biting fish off when using pole feeder - ie using a feeder with a pole to fish rivers in flood.

Thanks Kev. That could prove very useful.

 

[no-one in particular]

Getting further away from the OP, but following NIP's elastic rig, here's how to use elastic to avoid a tight line putting biting fish off when using pole feeder - ie using a feeder with a pole to fish rivers in flood.

Ah, that's basically the same thing, nothing new then but it makes me wonder why it is not used more. Maybe it doesn't work too good, anyway, I will try mine out for a few sessions, see how it goes, I often get two or three snatch bites a session, maybe more so I might be able to tell if I hook into more fish. The only thing I might change, I have some of that bait elastic somewhere, I will try and fish it out and swap the elastic bands for that, I think it is thinner and more stretchy.

 

[no-one in particular]

Have you seem the Magic Twig? Basically a refined and commercially available version of the above.

I had heard of it but I didn't know what it was, just that it didn't seem to curry much favour.

 

[Aknib]

However; some of the bites are incredibly fast and it's just not possible to react in time so I need a cunning system to release more line and hopefully which sem to these bites down.

Already touched upon in principle by Kev in particular but...

Heli-rig?

Accountable for many big Roach and favourable (fishabe) in strong conditions and when Roach come on the feed in earnest, particularly stillwater Roach which tend to occupy the main areas of a stillwater where the main tow is running through.

I'm no expert by far, just my experience.

Are your intended quarry on the K&A?

Just wondering, I've found Roach fishing on stillwater is best when you brace yourself on the bank of a strong incoming wind and on large waters I've found the heli-rig one of the few things that will cope with it.

 

[peterjg]

Aknib, many thanks for your post and info. At the moment I'm mostly concentrating on a couple of gravel pits for roach. At the moment maggots are only producing small roach and rudd. The helirig with pellets, even with short or long hooklengths, doesn't work as well as a running leger with 24inch hooklengths. I think (guess) that very often the roach are picking the pellets up in their lips (testing?) them. I've raised the rod rests to give a longer drop to the bobbins but even now some of the bites are so incredibly fast it's still impossible to react in time. Yes, I do fish the K&A canal but not in the summer holidays - the K&A is so underrated, I've found a reach with some excellent roach!

 

[@Clive]

Could they be line bites Peter? Roach normally pass food items straight down to their pharyngeal teeth for processing, hence the missed bites that result in nipped or crushed maggots. Is it possible to use a softer bait like paste where the hook could easily pull through as the line tightened?

I am not a fan of the heli-rig purely on fish welfare grounds. I don't doubt its efficiency though.

 

[peterjg]

@Clive, yes I think that some of them probably are line bites but some are hooked (more luck than judgement!) and some hook themselves when the line tightens. There's some gooduns in there so it's worth preserving with.

 

[Philip]

My two pennies are that snatched bites are probably a sign of wary fish. Easier said than done but try gaining thier confidence though prebaiting before fishing and fishing in areas and at times they are not used to being fished for. Even difficult to catch fish can become stupidly easy if they have thier guard down and the rig will become of far less importance.

 

[markcw]

Have you seem the Magic Twig? Basically a refined and commercially available version of the above.

Banned on the majority of fisheries over here ,

 

[markcw]

There is also the sidewinder set up .