Tackle shops...

[steve2]

Traditional tackle shops have been dying out for years. If I go back to when I started, 1950's, there were six near to where I lived, when I moved there were none. Where I now live there is just one that I know of. It is a sign of the times that people just don't fish rivers anymore in the numbers they use too. I seem to remember there once an estimated 2 million plus anglers and people fished rivers because there were no easy commercials. Now they want easy fishing with easy parking and on site cafes not walk miles of muddy river banks.

 

[dalesman]

Sad but true.

 

[Kevin aka Aethelbald]

One chap told me recently that back in the day a match on the Avon or Severn might attract 500 fishermen. Now it's down to dozens, if that. Bad news for tackle shops, but good news for those of us who still prefer the tranquility of natural surroundings.
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[RMNDIL]

That's NOT what my local tackle shop says - which is why I posted... ie. I didn't just make it up. The industry has changed - most of their suppliers now insist on a minimum order, so they have to take stock that they can't necessarily shift quickly. The shop is long-established and I doubt it would be considered a credit risk.

AD might have the buying power to insist on favourable terms, but the smaller guys are at the mercy of the bigger brands and the distributors.
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That may be the case with your local shop and perhaps with some of their suppliers. But it's not THE way ALL small/independent shops are treated by ALL suppliers.

E.G. At Drennan there is no minimum order unless you don't want to pay the carriage and you want Drennan to pick up the bill. And various deals allow credit for up to NINE months. And AD are treated exactly the same, same prices and same terms for everyone regardless of turnover

 

[Kevin aka Aethelbald]

That may be the case with your local shop and perhaps with some of their suppliers. But it's not THE way ALL small/independent shops are treated by ALL suppliers.

Never said it applied to the whole industry. I was just quoting my local dealer, but I've no reason to believe he is on less favourable terms than other dealers.

E.G. At Drennan there is no minimum order unless you don't want to pay the carriage and you want Drennan to pick up the bill. And various deals allow credit for up to NINE months. And AD are treated exactly the same, same prices and same terms for everyone regardless of turnover

Fair enough, if true, but you're only quoting one brand, what about Shimano, for instance? I disclosed my source (albeit without naming them), so it would be helpful for you to reveal where you get your information.

PS. We might be talking at cross purposes. When I said 'minimum order' I didn't mean for customer orders, where the customer is expected to pay for delivery of a specific item... ie. to replace a broken rod part. Of course Drennan will supply that individually.
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[RMNDIL]

Never said it applied to the whole industry. I was just quoting my local dealer, but I've no reason to believe he is on less favourable terms than other dealers.
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To be fair no you didn't but you said 'The industry...most of their suppliers'. Implying that it was very commonplace etc

Fair enough, if true, but you're only quoting one brand, what about Shimano, for instance? I disclosed my source (albeit without naming them), so it would be helpful for you to reveal where you get your information.

Its not a case of if true its a fact. Drennan is my ultimate source - the Horse's mouth. Let alone umpteen UK shops who do such business.

PS. We might be talking at cross purposes. When I said 'minimum order' I didn't mean for customer orders, where the customer is expected to pay for delivery of a specific item... ie. to replace a broken rod part. Of course Drennan will supply that individually.
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Dont think so. Im talking supplier to shop. Either way there is, in the example, no minimum spend so long as the shop pays the carriage. Never has been.

 

[Kevin aka Aethelbald]

Its not a case of if true its a fact. Drennan is my ultimate source - the Horse's mouth. Let alone umpteen UK shops who do such business.

'Horse's mouth' and 'umpteen UK shops' suggests that neither of us really knows the trading arrangements between ALL suppliers and ALL retailers. But I can't imagine Drennan offering nine months credit to any small business... they'd go bust. Who exactly at Drennan has told you this?

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[RMNDIL]

'Horse's mouth' and 'umpteen UK shops' suggests that neither of us really knows the trading arrangements between ALL suppliers and ALL retailers. But I can't imagine Drennan offering nine months credit to any small business... they'd go bust. Who exactly at Drennan has told you this?

Cannot speak for every sjngle one no. But 9 months for the winter deals (October to December) was/is open to everyone on biggest of 3 graduated deals (various product categories) which were not big value anyway. Been doing it for decades.

Wouldn't (obviously havent) go bust as their pockets are more than deep enough.

I told me

 

[@Clive]

Cannot speak for every sjngle one no. But 9 months for the winter deals (October to December) was/is open to everyone on biggest of 3 graduated deals (various product categories) which were not big value anyway. Been doing it for decades.

Wouldn't (obviously havent) go bust as their pockets are more than deep enough.

I told me

Thanks for your input. It is nice to hear how the trade works from someone who actually works in the trade and has done for many years.

The credit schemes are not restricted to fishing tackle. Car dealers also benefit from similar deals formulated by manufacturers. Typically they will have a period of grace from payment for several weeks or months unless the vehicle is sold when payment is required immediately. After the period of grace there can be part payments made depending on the manufacturer's stipulations. When I worked in the retail trade wholesalers had similar arrangements with retailers and further back when I worked in manufacturing the company invoiced the retailer's orders 3 months after delivery.

It is probably more widespread than many people are aware of. An example is where Ken Bates declared bankruptcy at Leeds Utd and many small local businesses who had supplied the club on similar terms to you describe lost nearly all of the money owed to them by the club.

 

[RMNDIL]

Thanks for your input. It is nice to hear how the trade works from someone who actually works in the trade and has done for many years.

The credit schemes are not restricted to fishing tackle. Car dealers also benefit from similar deals formulated by manufacturers. Typically they will have a period of grace from payment for several weeks or months unless the vehicle is sold when payment is required immediately. After the period of grace there can be part payments made depending on the manufacturer's stipulations. When I worked in the retail trade wholesalers had similar arrangements with retailers and further back when I worked in manufacturing the company invoiced the retailer's orders 3 months after delivery.

It is probably more widespread than many people are aware of. An example is where Ken Bates declared bankruptcy at Leeds Utd and many small local businesses who had supplied the club on similar terms to you describe lost nearly all of the money owed to them by the club.

New cars Clive I assume ?

I guess it's better in some way to have them out in the showrooms where people can actually see them rather than hidden away in a factory car park railway siding etc somewhere.

Same as Drennans approach. Better to be in the shop in front of the angler/customer than in the warehouse. Drennan are funding it anyway

 

[@Clive]

New cars Clive I assume ?

I guess it's better in some way to have them out in the showrooms where people can actually see them rather than hidden away in a factory car park railway siding etc somewhere.

Same as Drennans approach. Better to be in the shop in front of the angler/customer than in the warehouse. Drennan are funding it anyway

Yes. Each manufacturer has its own scheme, but basically the whole retail trade works on credit.

With cars the dealers often take advantage of special deals and register cars under their own name in order to qualify for bonuses. For example if a dealer was given a 3 month sales target to sell 15 of a particular model, towards the end of that period they might register a few 'demontrators' to get them over the line. Or if they were doing well they could register some more to enhance their profits after the deal ended. And as you rightly say, it adds products to the shop window. And no one likes waiting for their purchase to be ordered from the manufacturer / wholesaler unless it is a special order.

 

[RMNDIL]

With cars the dealers often take advantage of special deals and register cars under their own name in order to qualify for bonuses. For example if a dealer was given a 3 month sales target to sell 15 of a particular model, towards the end of that period they might register a few 'demontrators' to get them over the line.

I have, quite literally last week, just experienced that and got myself a very good deal

 

[silvers]

Does the selling direct model help cut out out middleman costs? It may, but a float rod's not the kind of thing I'd want to buy without seeing it and waving it around. I remember when I first thought of trying a compact Octbox, just a couple of drawers and a footplate, not the full monty, another item sold directly, they arranged for me to call on a local customer who helpfully set his up in the garden for me to have a good look at. Is that possible with Cadence?

iirc, there are two official methods
1. Brand ambassadors who are spread around the country
2. roadshows, which tend to be in the late spring time of year and advertised on their Facebook page.

either way, contacting James Robbins directly is probably the best first step … (it is a very small company)

 

[Kevin aka Aethelbald]

I remember when I first thought of trying a compact Octbox, just a couple of drawers and a footplate, not the full monty, another item sold directly, they arranged for me to call on a local customer who helpfully set his up in the garden for me to have a good look at. Is that possible with Cadence?

I sent a message to Cadence on Saturday, using their online 'contact' page. Expecting to have to wait until Monday for a reply, I actually got one from James Robbins within less than half an hour, followed by an exchange of messages.

I'm increasingly drawn towards companies that offer exceptional customer service (in all aspects of life) and having never bought anything from Cadence before, they now top my list of brands for customer service, alongside Daiwa and Drennan.

And while free spirits might be welcome in a bar (ho-ho), the company of that name is on the naughty step, alongside Korda and Korum, neither of whom have replied to messages I sent two years ago. I don't know why these companies bother with their contact / message pages if they can't be ar5ed to respond.
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[markcw]

I sent a message to Cadence on Saturday, using their online 'contact' page. Expecting to have to wait until Monday for a reply, I actually got one from James Robbins within less than half an hour, followed by an exchange of messages.

I'm increasingly drawn towards companies that offer exceptional customer service (in all aspects of life) and having never bought anything from Cadence before, they now top my list of brands for customer service, alongside Daiwa and Drennan.

And while free spirits might be welcome in a bar (ho-ho), the company of that name is on the naughty step, alongside Korda and Korum, neither of whom have replied to messages I sent two years ago. I don't know why these companies bother with their contact / message pages if they can't be ar5ed to respond.
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I've met James a few times when I have been on one of the stands at tackle shows . Very easy to get on with ,
He had a stand more or less opposite us at one show , offered us a good discount on any rod . A couple of the lads on the stand took him up on it .

 

[nottskev]

I sent a message to Cadence on Saturday, using their online 'contact' page. Expecting to have to wait until Monday for a reply, I actually got one from James Robbins within less than half an hour, followed by an exchange of messages.

I'm increasingly drawn towards companies that offer exceptional customer service (in all aspects of life) and having never bought anything from Cadence before, they now top my list of brands for customer service, alongside Daiwa and Drennan.

And while free spirits might be welcome in a bar (ho-ho), the company of that name is on the naughty step, alongside Korda and Korum, neither of whom have replied to messages I sent two years ago. I don't know why these companies bother with their contact / message pages if they can't be ar5ed to respond.
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That's good to hear. I've watched his video's since his Shakespeare days, and he's clearly a versatile angler with super skills. You hear nothing but good things about their tackle range. Rick from Octbox is another such - he seems to always be on duty.

Funny you should mention Free Spirit. I was looking for and failing to find an email contact yesterday. I have one of their very expensive (think rod prices) 4m net handles, and the top section detached in use yet again on Saturday, costing me a good fish while I f'ed about trying to connect the two sections in my hand with the bit with the net on which was threatening to sink out of sight into the Derwent. I don't expect any redress - I bought it a couple of years ago - but I'd like to convey my feedback. Oops - there goes my chance of selling it on here.

 

[Kevin aka Aethelbald]

Funny you should mention Free Spirit.

I've got a FS rod that I sold to a friend that has broken, twice, in the same place, while in his possession. The dealer is near to me so both times I've organised the replacement. FS offered to replace the part FOC both times (not without numerous photographs of the broken part), the first time took two months and on this latest occasion we've been waiting since October (might even be September, it's been so long).

On the one hand they are replacing the part FOC, but on the other it feels like they are treating their customers with contempt. They won't post it out, even though my mate offered to pay postage - they'll only ship it to the dealer as part of a bigger order. From what little contact I've had with Cadence, I can't imagine James Robbins treating his customers with such complacency. If FS ever get back to you, feel free to pass on my thoughts.

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[Ray Roberts]

I’ve always had to go through the dealer to contact FreeSpirit, I don’t believe there is an option for a punter to contact them direct, which I personally think is deplorable.

 

[nottskev]

I’ve always had to go through the dealer to contact FreeSpirit, I don’t believe there is an option for a punter to contact them direct, which I personally think is deplorable.

I asked the question on one of their Fb pages. I got this answer from one of their sponsored anglers: "The only contact is through the dealers who F.S.F. sell their products to."

 

[Alan Whitty]

They have the name of a top end rod manufacturer, one that I'm not keen on, they look pretty though...