The perfect rod choice for chub.

[chav professor]

I was thinking about this the other day...... Does the perfect Chub rod exist for ledgering?

I have 3 principle chub rods.. A Drennan big feeder (superseding my john wilson avon quiver) fitted with a fast taper 1.5 ounce carbon fibre tip, a 1.5lb test curve super specialist and a modern recreation of a b james mk4 avon. Each are totally brilliant given certain circumstances! BUT not one of them is really perfect for the job in hand.

In part it is due to the way a chub picks up and backs off with a bait when they are not really 'having it' - but one is closer to being a great chub and it surprised me.

When quiver tipping, i often hold a loop of line in my left hand and my right is on the rod at all times. when I get the initial 'donk', I release the tension by letting go of the loop, point the rod towards the fish and 'strike when I feel the fish is still on - by this time the fish may have the bait confidently in its mouth and is moving off confidently (most times). But if its cold, I pop on a bobbin and use both forms of indication. The problem as I see it, is once the deflection on a quiver tip has shown the bite, the fish only has to move the quiver tip a few inches before feeling the resistance of the rod! No problem using a bobbin then.... because once the tip has deflected, it simply feels the minimal resistance of the bobbin.

Alternatively I hold the rod and strike as soon as I feel appropriate...... interestingly, on powerful rivers, bites are usually much more positive affairs and lack the fannying around you get on sluggish river with less mobile shoals of fish.

The super specialist 1.5 test is more versatile. I can free-line, float crust down-stream, ledger by putting a bobbin on, touch ledger even float fish at a push. Its a good all-rounder and I love it.

However, my favourite Chub rod is the split cane MK4 avon! it has caught more 5lb+ fish than the others put together by a significant margin up to 6lb4oz (this seems to be the realistic upper limit on my river..... but I'm constantly working on that).

It is brilliantly versatile - it can be used for ledgering, free-lining and has caught using float fishing tactics - but is a bit short for my liking. However, I do not fit isotopes to the tip in fear of damaging the aesthetics (it took me months to construct/whip as I could only afford it in kit form) so is no good for night fishing - winter nights get cold and I am not a massive fan of touch ledgering. I could add that I do use a bobbin fitted with an isotope (a solar lightweight bobbin attached with a long piece of fly) this is the perfect bobbin IMO, so at least that's sorted.

What makes this rod so effective is that the top section is soft and loads progressively without the sudden and rapid change of resistance you get on a quiver tip that suddenly meets the test curve of a carbon fibre rod. you get the initial 'donk' on the top when the chub picks up the bait, then the rod folds over gently and its a case of simply bending into the fish - the fish feels less resistance for longer..... Or a no rapid change of resistance!!!

I think its the softer nature of the rod top that makes the MK4 avon such a great tool - but better modern materials exist - in fact I was thinking along the lines of a blend of glass fibre and carbon fibre to produce a rod with the top section similar to that of a fly rod top blended progressively into a more powerful butt section. It would be 12ft long and have a pair of isotopes fitted and of course a cork handle with a locking reel seat. (the reel bands on the 'big feeder' are dire - I carry black electrical tape to securely fasten the reel seat down).

Have you already found the perfect Chub rod? Do you have any suggestions that could improve its design? Can someone construct the perfect rod to specific requirements?

 

[Peter Jacobs]

My favorite rods for Chub fishing are; Mk IV Avon split cane, my 2 Bob James River Twin rods and a newer stepped-up Avon on a Harrison blank which I had made 2 seasons ago.

The Mk IV's have long since proved themselves in my opinion and the Bob James River twins are excellent rods as they come with 2 complete top sections one with a splice-in quiver and the other a more conventional 'Avon' top.

 

[mark brailsford 2]

I really love my Fox 12FT Specialist Duo-lite.
Its a lovely light rod with a nice mellow action and the tips supplied are just right for winter Chub...and Roach come to that, not bad for a hundred quid

 

[chav professor]

isn't interesting that the MK 4 has a modern air of relevance even in this day and age...... However, I do think glass fibre could offer advantages over split cane.

---------- Post added at 01:10 ---------- Previous post was at 01:05 ----------

I have heard the fox duo-lite is a good quiver tipping rod for chub Mark. I suspect the 'big-feeder' I own is a bit heavy..... but I make do. But does the fox duo-lite overcome the problem that a chub feels a change of resistance once the tip has deflected without having to heavily compensate?

 

[Peter Jacobs]

isn't interesting that the MK 4 has a modern air of relevance even in this day and age...... However, I do think glass fibre could offer advantages over split cane ?

I never really got on with glass fibre rods and apart from one or two forrays into the land of glass I kept with my cane rods really until hollow glass came out and then the rods from the carboniferous period.

I still use my Mk IV's for my Chub fishing probably as much as my other rods though.

 

[reeds]

I use a 12ft 1.25lb tc drennan series 7 Avon/quiver for almost all my chubbing, usually with the 1.5oz quivertip. There's no flat spot between tip and blank so the action is nice and progressive. I rarely give any line to chub, as they will always find something to transfer the hook to, preferring to stand firm and let the rod soak up the lunges. This rod does that brilliantly, strong enough to keep the big fish out of the margin and soft enough to not pull the hook out. With 6lb line it's balanced perfectly, and has caught me many memorable chub

I have bought a mint conditioned fox Kevlar barbel rod for when I need a bit more beef (the quivertip section is 1.5lb tc) but haven't actually used it yet... The drennan cost me £90 new a few years ago and I still can't believe you can get a rod that good for so little money! With the Avon tip on, it also makes a fantastic big perch rod.

 

[Bluenose]

Shimano Technium Specialist twin tip, quiver section, not the avon!

*awaits argument with BC

 

[mark brailsford 2]

isn't interesting that the MK 4 has a modern air of relevance even in this day and age...... However, I do think glass fibre could offer advantages over split cane.

---------- Post added at 01:10 ---------- Previous post was at 01:05 ----------

I have heard the fox duo-lite is a good quiver tipping rod for chub Mark. I suspect the 'big-feeder' I own is a bit heavy..... but I make do. But does the fox duo-lite overcome the problem that a chub feels a change of resistance once the tip has deflected without having to heavily compensate?

The tips on the DL are very fine (you get 4) with a 3/4 oz glass, 3/4 oz carbon then a 1 oz and 1 1/2 carbon so you have tips that will offer very little resistance to even the shyest of fish!
Chris, take a look on the Climax web site, I think they still have the Fox Specialist for about 60 quid!

 

[paulvjwhite]

i own a richard walker mk4 avon have n't used it for years,i would have thought it a bit "heavy" for chub fishing. i currently use a shimano technium specialist quiver.it has 6 inter-changeable quiver tips ranging from 1/2 oz to 2.5oz perfect for the river lea .if water is up i use a fox kevlar barbel with the 1.25 top section

 

[mark brailsford 2]

I used to have the Shimano Technium specialist and still cant believe I sold it, but I need the money back then and needs must! It was A superb rod and I just cant understand Why they discontinued it when it must have sold in thousands! If they came out again I would snap one up without hesitation, yes they WERE that good.

 

[sam vimes]

I have both Fox Duo-Lite Avons and Specialists. It would depend entirely on the river I was fishing as to which I'd take. The Avons are my weapon of choice for my local river. The Specialists are just too light for the flow levels and depths that I'm likely to encounter. Could well be a different ball game on a small lowland river.

Another rod that I suspect might be worth a try is the original Daiwa Powermesh Specialist Avon. It's far and away more of a through action than the 1.25lb TC would suggest. It's quite different to many modern rods that, based on ratings alone, should be similar.

 

[guest61]

Small rivers in normal levels, typically I would ledger for Chub with a Drennan Super Specialist 'duo' 1.25lb TC - but I'm more than happy with using a Preston pellet waggler rod doing the same job.

Any rod with a bit of 'backbone' will do, its more a case finding fish and presenting a bait to them on small waters.

On open waters I much prefer float fishing..

 

[nicepix]

On the smaller rives I fished in the UK - Dearne and Don I used a 10 foot 1lb TC split cane Avon made by Chapmans when specifically after chub using bait. The cane is more forgiving than my modern carbon rods and handles that initial lunge much more smoothly. It is also more forgiving at the end of the fight with a short length line out. Bite indication was by using a bobbin when ledgering although mostly I would float-ledger.

I use the same rod for mullet fishing for the same reasons.

 

[chav professor]

i own a richard walker mk4 avon have n't used it for years,i would have thought it a bit "heavy" for chub fishing. i currently use a shimano technium specialist quiver.it has 6 inter-changeable quiver tips ranging from 1/2 oz to 2.5oz perfect for the river lea .if water is up i use a fox kevlar barbel with the 1.25 top section

Surprised a MK 4 avon would be considered a bit 'heavy'... it seemed quite soft, but loads up progressively and then feels more than adequate - the fish on my river are modest sized at best. It can even catch decent sized fish on very fine lines.

Like I said though, it is not perfect - far from it. Perhaps the light ledger is the way forward and offers advantages over what I am using at the moment.

However, thinking out of the box, does anyone else see the potential benefits of having am alternative to the quiver tip or avon top, in the form of a soft ledger top rod?

 

[aebitim]

The best rod I have used for chub is a bader 11 ft avon [ not mine and at over a grand not ever likely to be]. Cane has a superb action for playing fish but is heavy to hold all day and does require tlc. My main chub/barbel rod for the kennet was a mk4 fiberglass b and w for a long time and it served me well. I then bought a J Wilson 9ft wanderer which was superb, but a little too short. Next came a diawa fiberglass 11ft something that would cope with the bigger barbel I was begining to catch, bit to powerfull for chub though. Next came a harrison which was a disaster at first but after stripping and reringing is now my first choice for river chub [ it grates that I had to strip and rebuild a 170 quid rod to make it work] For big rivers a 1.75 infinity does the job, a very through action stepped up avon feel. Touch ledgering with a quiver tip seems a bit odd, I find the fine tip absorbs the little twitches and knocks that are so much a part of chub fishing. I dont think it is possible to find the perfect rod for any fishing, there is always somethig that could be improved.

 

[chub_on_the_block]

I think the ideal rod would depend a lot on the nature of the swim.

I can get away using an old 11ft Normark Specialist Avon-type thing SCD1322 in slow water, although i have to use a custom screw-in quiver as it only has Avon top and threaded tip ring. Its a lovely rod and i have lowered my estimate of its TC to about a 1Ib or so.

But once on the Stour in a heavy paced swim i was outgunned by the chub and the rod was found wanting for power (or perhaps i was scared to test it to the limits as it was new at the time). i dug out my legendary home made Huge Dog 11ft Specialist naff fibreglass creation, which i had no worries about breaking. A light barbel rod might be better in those circumstances and would help if one did come along.

 

[barbelboi]

I prefer Harrison Specialists for much of my chub/barbel work - shame you never got on with your 'H' aebitim but don't forget that they make over 100 different blanks and there are a few that wouldn't suit me either.
Jerry

 

[nicepix]

Surprised a MK 4 avon would be considered a bit 'heavy'... it seemed quite soft, but loads up progressively and then feels more than adequate - the fish on my river are modest sized at best. It can even catch decent sized fish on very fine lines.

Like I said though, it is not perfect - far from it. Perhaps the light ledger is the way forward and offers advantages over what I am using at the moment.

However, thinking out of the box, does anyone else see the potential benefits of having am alternative to the quiver tip or avon top, in the form of a soft ledger top rod?

Nice hat mg:

When I fly-fished for chub I found that the ones over 2lb ish would be a lot more wary than the smaller ones. Same with perch over around 12oz to 1lb. Little ones would hang themselves, but when I watched the big chub taking the fly there was no visible indication on the leader. In fact they could suck it in and blow it out without indicating a bite in the conventional manner. If I had not been sight fishing I wouldn't have caught them.

On the infrequent occassions that I went out specifically after chub using bait I'd rely on as light a bobbin as possible or even just a bow in the line. Over time it became obvious that some takes that showed on the bowed line would never have moved the bobbin or a quiver tip. They really were shy with static baits.

This one was easier. It took a floating fly

 

[chav professor]

I agree nicepix (BTW - i can see why.... nice pix mate!). I agree, if possible, I prefer not to use the rod as an indicator. I am hoping what this pic illustrates is the slack line nature that is so effective. The line is 12lb hence you can see the coils (important because its more visible AND the coils). What you cannot see is the slack bow in the line. Bites are typically either a twitch of the line... or more often, the line straightening and cutting across the water.

Fitted also, is the lightest bobbin I could find.

I am sure, the quiver tip does contribute to missed bites on occasions.

It is a nice hat, isn't it!

 

[barbelboi]

I agree nicepix (BTW - i can see why.... nice pix mate!). I agree, if possible, I prefer not to use the rod as an indicator. I am hoping what this pic illustrates is the slack line nature that is so effective. The line is 12lb hence you can see the coils (important because its more visible AND the coils). What you cannot see is the slack bow in the line. Bites are typically either a twitch of the line... or more often, the line straightening and cutting across the water.

Fitted also, is the lightest bobbin I could find.

I am sure, the quiver tip does contribute to missed bites on occasions.

It is a nice hat, isn't it!

I use a similar method in winter Chav, I like to get downstream of the swim then cast up to it with just sufficient weight to hold in the current. When tightening up they’ll be a bit of slack line between the lead and the tip that will bow. If a chub takes the bait from downstream it will have to take up the bit of slack before it feels the resistance of the tip. If it takes it from upstream it will cause the small weight to move downstream with it giving a slack line bite - in both instances I strike when the line moves.
Jerry