The main thing that peed me off about the Harrison was the fact that it was factory built and didnt work. Now I have it the way I want it it works fine and I would not be without it, especially Chub fishing. If I bought another one I would start with a blank and go from there using a custom builder to finish it.
The perfect rod choice for chub.
- Thread starter chav professor
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The main thing that peed me off about the Harrison was the fact that it was factory built and didnt work. Now I have it the way I want it it works fine and I would not be without it, especially Chub fishing. If I bought another one I would start with a blank and go from there using a custom builder to finish it.
barbelboi
Well-known member
It's well worth the bit extra to get exactly what you want - Vic Gibson's website gives you the opportunity to build a virtual custom rod from scratch giving you a price at the end.
Jerry
nicepix
Well-known member
Remember the small spherical pilot floats that were used above the Fishing Gazette type pike floats? Something along similar lines, smaller and made out of rig foam or polystyrene free running above the ledger would rise to the surface and could be used to create a slight bow in the line on the surface, between rod tip and weight whilst offering minimal resistance to a taking fish.
Something like these strike indicators......
They are used in fly-fishing for suspending nymphs and giving an indication of the take. I reckon a free running one would give a pretty good indication as it slides over the surface.
Something like these strike indicators......
They are used in fly-fishing for suspending nymphs and giving an indication of the take. I reckon a free running one would give a pretty good indication as it slides over the surface.
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Almost any rod will do for chub, thewy're one of the most easy of fish to catch...imo. When i'm out trotting and things are slow I often replace my float with a small bomb and use my match rod as a leger rod, I never have any prob's either and have caught lots of species from chu
chav professor
Well-known member
Every now and then you get a 'duffers' fortnight when conditions have been favourable....
Now, a match rod has a softer progressive tip and would work admirably.
I was told that Bill Warren would deploy a long salmon rod and hold it skyward and watch the bow in the line. on seeing a bite, he would lower the rod tip to give line prior to striking!
steph mckenzie
Well-known member
Surely you pick the Rod to suit the Fish (in this case Chub) and the Venue, the Conditions etc etc .... so can there really be just 1 rod Perfect for all?
Depth, Flow and Bait would all have to be a Factor, small Medium Feeder 1 day and then perhaps a small barbel rod the next.
I might be wrong, but, i am sure there are others that could put me right.
Depth, Flow and Bait would all have to be a Factor, small Medium Feeder 1 day and then perhaps a small barbel rod the next.
I might be wrong, but, i am sure there are others that could put me right.
sam vimes
Well-known member
Steph,
I made a similar point earlier. The lighter rods that people have mentioned on this thread would be next to useless on my local river. However, seeing the pic of one of the rivers that the Professor is fishing, I can see how they may be useable for him.
Not a lot of good designing a rod from anything other than how they fish, cant see me being able to do that from a keyboard. Recently bought a cheap [30 quid] quiver rod for my grandson and it fishes better than my expensive one, I can never tell with rods untill I use them.
cg74
Well-known member
Exactly, it's always going to be a matter of compromise - NO rod can even be perfect for every swim on a stretch of river; unless it's a canalised featureless ditch but even then your perfect set up will go to pot if the river was to rise a ft or two during a session.
A mate of mine has an 11ft 1.25lb Harrison rod (I don't know which one) with a fixed 4oz tip, a lovely rod with a cracking action but it's tip is far to stiff for my liking. Admittedly he mainly uses it on the Warks Avon which is a bigger and often faster river than my local ones but his choice of rod is so lacking in versatility it verges on useless IMO.
As long as it can cast whatever you want it to, bites register clearly and you can play a fish, the rest is academic.
seanmeeghan
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I think the problem is that rods are always a compromise between effective bite indication and being nice to play a fish on. For playing a chub I much prefer one of my cane rods and the Chapmans 500 is really nice. Over the years though I've come to the opinion that a rod around 11ft 6in long is about the best length as the length helps when a chub dives for the bank beneath your feet. Quiver tip rods need careful selection as the blend of the tip into the top section of the rod is critical at times. Rods such as the Fox Duolites have too sharp a transition in my opinion partly because the quivers are too light for the tip section.
I spent a long time choosing my current chub ledger rod and in the end I plumped for a commercial feeder rod, the Drennan Puddlechucker. These commercial feeder rods tend to have a more through action than normal feeder rods and I find it works better for chub when they are in a playful mood.
I dkn't see how you can rate a rod as a good ledger rods when you're essentially freelining or watching the line for bite indication then feeding line before striking. Surely the rating should be on a rods ability to show a bite which results in a hooked fish and which is the enjoyable to play a fish on?
---------- Post added at 14:36 ---------- Previous post was at 14:32 ----------
Sorry posting on my mobile from the back of beyond and I appear to have used an old id. Never mind you know who I am!
I spent a long time choosing my current chub ledger rod and in the end I plumped for a commercial feeder rod, the Drennan Puddlechucker. These commercial feeder rods tend to have a more through action than normal feeder rods and I find it works better for chub when they are in a playful mood.
I dkn't see how you can rate a rod as a good ledger rods when you're essentially freelining or watching the line for bite indication then feeding line before striking. Surely the rating should be on a rods ability to show a bite which results in a hooked fish and which is the enjoyable to play a fish on?
---------- Post added at 14:36 ---------- Previous post was at 14:32 ----------
Sorry posting on my mobile from the back of beyond and I appear to have used an old id. Never mind you know who I am!
barbelboi
Well-known member
Very true, I was just offering that as a guideline as to final costs of a custom. I've always had a head to head before parting with my money.
Jerry
sam vimes
Well-known member
Same can be said about an awful lot of push in quiver rods and precisiely why I rarely use either my Duo-lite Avons or Specialists with the carrier/quiver section. They may as well not have been supplied with them.
However, the lighter Specialist doesn't have so much of a problem, apart from the rod itself being far too light for our local rivers. Personally, I find quiver tips to be a bit of a waste of time on running water.
If you want a really good quiver rod, get one with a properly matched and spliced in quiver. Partly why I love a few of the match style quiver rods I own. They come with three quiver tips that are complete sections in their own right. None of this single carrier and three push in tips nonesense. There's not a cat in hell's chance of all three different rated tips working in harmony with that single carrier.
chav professor
Well-known member
Same can be said about an awful lot of push in quiver rods and precisiely why I rarely use either my Duo-lite Avons or Specialists with the carrier/quiver section. They may as well not have been supplied with them.
However, the lighter Specialist doesn't have so much of a problem, apart from the rod itself being far too light for our local rivers. Personally, I find quiver tips to be a bit of a waste of time on running water.
If you want a really good quiver rod, get one with a properly matched and spliced in quiver. Partly why I love a few of the match style quiver rods I own. They come with three quiver tips that are complete sections in their own right. None of this single carrier and three push in tips nonesense. There's not a cat in hell's chance of all three different rated tips working in harmony with that single carrier.
Here lies the problem! A nice soft quiver never works well with the carrier section. The general rule of thumb is to use the softest quiver possible - on days when chub are 'having it', its perfect; but on pressured fish this is less and less likely. Which is why I have to deploy tactics that give the fish 'more rope' in addition to the primary source of indication being the tip alone.
A better compromise would be a slightly stiffer tip that progressively blended into the top section - chub eject baits when they feel a sudden change in resistance. A jack of all trades, master of none if you like!
A chub will give a 'donk' on the tip of my MK4 avon and more often than not, will take tip around reasonably confidently in a number of cases - certainly long enough to strike. I have picked up a bait at distance on the garden lawn and it shows a lot more than you would expect for the given resistance.
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steph mckenzie
Well-known member
So do you need a Rod Tip that only indicates when a Fish has been hooked when Chub Fishing, rather than indicating when a fish might be investigating a bait?
I know this might seem a silly question, but giving that Chub seem to be very wary, once a Chub decides it wants a bait does the sensitivity of a Tip really make much difference?
Would a Rod that comes with Spliced Tips be a much better choice, that way you could have a selection of Top Sections to suit. Yes, it might be more expensive, but, would it justify the cost?
I know this might seem a silly question, but giving that Chub seem to be very wary, once a Chub decides it wants a bait does the sensitivity of a Tip really make much difference?
Would a Rod that comes with Spliced Tips be a much better choice, that way you could have a selection of Top Sections to suit. Yes, it might be more expensive, but, would it justify the cost?
chav professor
Well-known member
this is only my interpretation of what happens, but I suspect the initial 'donk' on the tip is when the fish picks up the bait, they drop their head and then right them selves. If they swim away with no concern (or bolt in panic not having the wit to drop it) the tip folds right over.
The 'donk'.......
What happens next is down to a number of factors; pressure, competition and previous experiences.
I have had chub nearly pull the rod in much like a barbel would - the fish would have confidently have taken the bait, bolted off and done me the favour of pulling the hook through the bait! This seems to happen where there are a lot of fish in the swim - put a few freebies in and they pounce on them, sometimes before the bait even hits the bottom. they dart in and then rip off with the bait to take it away from the other fish. These tend to be smaller fish. This is the extreme end of confident bites and very rarely occurs for me on my style of river.
A fish can pick up the bait and engulf it quite quickly, before moving off - these bites are easy to 'hit'. If you deploy a bow in the line and don't pay attention - this can result in deep hooking. In my experience, deep hooking is rare. NOTE: I like to have an idea what sort of bites I may expect. If I miss a bite, I tend to expect that there are feeding fish. If I cast out again, a bite usually comes and 'more rope' is key to giving them time. Again, my approach is indicative of the rivers I fish. If my experience was fishing the pressured fish on the river Lea, that might have been the only bite I could have expected all day
mg:A crafty old chub (not all crafty chub are big in nature - I have met cunning adversaries of only 3lb) will pick up the bait and back off with it some distance before eating it. they are used to eating un-tethered items off the bottom - which is why I pay particular attention to ensuring my baits behave as naturally as possible - for as long as possible!
sam vimes
Well-known member
Chav,
see if you can find one of the Speedmaster Commercial Feeder rods to have a waggle of. They wouldn't be my choice for fishing for chub locally but it's obvious that your locals are very different to mine. They do have three different full spliced in quiver tip sections. Alternatively, the old Aerocast Feeder rods also come with full quiver sections. The 11' light feeder rod might suit, if you can find one now they are discontinued.
see if you can find one of the Speedmaster Commercial Feeder rods to have a waggle of. They wouldn't be my choice for fishing for chub locally but it's obvious that your locals are very different to mine. They do have three different full spliced in quiver tip sections. Alternatively, the old Aerocast Feeder rods also come with full quiver sections. The 11' light feeder rod might suit, if you can find one now they are discontinued.
reeds
Well-known member
Some good points here. I think if you're touch legering or watching the line for bites (or using a bobbin), a quivertip is working against you, absorbing the indication you're feeling/looking for. The only reason to use a quivertip is to watch it for bite indication.
Spliced in quivertips would be better than most push-in ones as the progressive curve could be designed in. However, some rods do manage this perfectly well with the push-in tips (like the Drennan I mentioned). I think the problem with soft tips sitting in stiff blanks is more of a problem with the higher TC rods, another reason I am loathe to go above 1.25lb tc. However, I do accept that on bigger, more powerful rivers, a beefier rod would be required.
When I get a bite on the tip, I want the whole top section to start to curve, and for it to be as soft as possible. To make sure the chub doesn't feel much pressure, I always fish with a big bow of line, so the fish is never pulling directly on the tip.
Finally, I think with chub the most important thing to get right is baiting. Chub can be incredibly wary, but get their confidence up with careful baiting and you can use any old rod really...
cg74
Well-known member
For me the criteria I listed earlier are the key in deciding a rod's suitability.
In order of importance:
1, Must be up to casting whatever you want it to
This is self explanitory
2, Must offer good bite indication
I mainly leger/feeder fish and nigh on always use a quiver tip as my bite indicator and if freelining, the rods action is basically an irrelevance, as I'll be watching the line between the rod tip and the entry point into the water
3, Must have offer enough action that it allows you to play the fish
This really is the least important area, as chub aren't the hardest fighting species and can be easily dealt with using anything from a 2lb test barbel rod to a 0.5lb test Avon/specialist rod. I don't see any level of importance in having a wonderful smooth progressive action (like my mates Harrison has) if it impares bite registration and being stuck with only one option, it certainly is limiting.
---------- Post added at 13:58 ---------- Previous post was at 12:18 ----------
Some very good questions; for me a quiver tip is both an indicator of a fish investigating the bait and a full on bite; I'm sure it's possible to use it to interpret what's going on in the water via movements on your tip. So it's a major advantage using a soft quiver tip as it conveys more of what's happening and because the chub isn't actually hooked at this point, so offering minimal resistance for longer gives you more time and if needed a greater visual indication.
Yes it's true say that a lot of quiver tips aren't that well balanced with the rod but is that really important - I say no!
It's highly doubtful that many anglers targetting chub would buy a rod with say three top sections just to have an improved action.
In order of importance:
1, Must be up to casting whatever you want it to
This is self explanitory
2, Must offer good bite indication
I mainly leger/feeder fish and nigh on always use a quiver tip as my bite indicator and if freelining, the rods action is basically an irrelevance, as I'll be watching the line between the rod tip and the entry point into the water
3, Must have offer enough action that it allows you to play the fish
This really is the least important area, as chub aren't the hardest fighting species and can be easily dealt with using anything from a 2lb test barbel rod to a 0.5lb test Avon/specialist rod. I don't see any level of importance in having a wonderful smooth progressive action (like my mates Harrison has) if it impares bite registration and being stuck with only one option, it certainly is limiting.
---------- Post added at 13:58 ---------- Previous post was at 12:18 ----------
Some very good questions; for me a quiver tip is both an indicator of a fish investigating the bait and a full on bite; I'm sure it's possible to use it to interpret what's going on in the water via movements on your tip. So it's a major advantage using a soft quiver tip as it conveys more of what's happening and because the chub isn't actually hooked at this point, so offering minimal resistance for longer gives you more time and if needed a greater visual indication.
Yes it's true say that a lot of quiver tips aren't that well balanced with the rod but is that really important - I say no!
It's highly doubtful that many anglers targetting chub would buy a rod with say three top sections just to have an improved action.
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chav professor
Well-known member
I think, possibly, a perfect rod does not exist! Its about accommodating the behaviour of the chub whilst accepting the limitations from any given rod. I do like quiver tips - for the reasons given - you get a visual reference to what is going on..... beyond that, its necessary for the angler to have at least some input regarding the giving of line if required etc.
Oddly enough, the best 'battle' I have had recently was with a fish of only 3lb9oz..... it tore off taking line and gave a spectacular account of itself as an example of this species. Some bigger fish, its difficult to determine the size - a lot of my bigger fish have come in with surprising ease.... A test curve of around 0.75lb would suffice - though a 1.5lb test curve rod acts as well.
The soft, through action of a classic MK4 avon in split cane is as good as any rod as it meets the requirements of casting, striking and playing a fish etc. I think the suppleness of the upper section makes it particularly suitable in many ways.... weight wise? I must be 'bare hench' as I can hold it all day without my 'guns' aching! - Now that is proper Chav talk, blood!!!
Oddly enough, the best 'battle' I have had recently was with a fish of only 3lb9oz..... it tore off taking line and gave a spectacular account of itself as an example of this species. Some bigger fish, its difficult to determine the size - a lot of my bigger fish have come in with surprising ease.... A test curve of around 0.75lb would suffice - though a 1.5lb test curve rod acts as well.
The soft, through action of a classic MK4 avon in split cane is as good as any rod as it meets the requirements of casting, striking and playing a fish etc. I think the suppleness of the upper section makes it particularly suitable in many ways.... weight wise? I must be 'bare hench' as I can hold it all day without my 'guns' aching! - Now that is proper Chav talk, blood!!!
Weeman
Well-known member
Have to agree with cg74 there.
A lot of chub fishing involves roving around and the practicality of carting around a few different tip sections is a consideration - I feel the softest quiver tip possible is the best option to show the bite develop with least resistance and you'll have struck and set the hook long before the stiffness of the carrier section comes into play.
From this point of view the quiver itself doesn't necessarily have to be in perfect balance with the carrier section although its nice to have a seamless blend.
No rod will ever cover every eventuality but for my two peneth all my chub fishing (I fish for chub most of the time) is covered by a Drennan IM9 classic for float fishing and a Johnson Ross / Vic Gibson built 1.25TC Harrison Torrix with a solid and carrier top with various Drennan quivers for everything else.
I mainly fish the Lee, Stort and Ivel and have everything covered with those two rods and, on the rare occasions I fish the Severn, my 1.5TC Harrison specialist has proved the perfect tool when its bombing through or a big chuck with a heavy feeder is needed.
A lot of chub fishing involves roving around and the practicality of carting around a few different tip sections is a consideration - I feel the softest quiver tip possible is the best option to show the bite develop with least resistance and you'll have struck and set the hook long before the stiffness of the carrier section comes into play.
From this point of view the quiver itself doesn't necessarily have to be in perfect balance with the carrier section although its nice to have a seamless blend.
No rod will ever cover every eventuality but for my two peneth all my chub fishing (I fish for chub most of the time) is covered by a Drennan IM9 classic for float fishing and a Johnson Ross / Vic Gibson built 1.25TC Harrison Torrix with a solid and carrier top with various Drennan quivers for everything else.
I mainly fish the Lee, Stort and Ivel and have everything covered with those two rods and, on the rare occasions I fish the Severn, my 1.5TC Harrison specialist has proved the perfect tool when its bombing through or a big chuck with a heavy feeder is needed.