The very best in coarse writing?

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Do you teach the real reason why Henry VIII had so many wives Paul.

oh yes...fortunately most of my History teaching is Sixth Form so I can be a little more honest!!! Have you read Wolf Hall by Hilary Mantel....an excellent fictional interpretation of the rise of Thomas Cromwell.

Just to make it relevant to the thread...an excellent example of making known and often repeated "bare facts" into and exciting and intriguing account!

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Henry VIII had so many wives because he was the "king" and he could do what ever he wanted




he also had quite a range of mistresses...however, compared to the sexual activities of other contemporary European monarchs such as Ferdinand of Aragon or Louis XII of France, Henry was virtually abstaining.

Now I'm struggling to link this response to the main theme of the thread......but if one of our angling writers can do so...he or she could be on a money making winner....(and we moderators will start to have nightmares!!!!!)
 
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Lee Swords

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Ron Jeremy, what a hero!

You have to give respects to a bloke as ugly as Ron when he can get that much poonani...he is the master!
 

Mark Wintle

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Never mind Henry VIII, all he ever did was make genealogy a whole lot easier!

I looked up some ABC figures last night. In my mind I knew that recent figures were bad compared to the old days but the figures I had in my mind were still substantially better than the figures I found. I have AT from the early 70s with ABC figures of 166,000. I thought they still did 60,000 but it seems that that is optimistic. Same story with other mags.

Although someone mentioned a total coarse readership of 55,000 it's actually a fair bit higher than that in total, possibly 200,000 - 250,000 when you total all the carp mags, AT, AM, IYCF, TCF, CF, CAT, MF, PF etc.
 

captain carrott

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the total readership was a misinterpretation of my 55k for the top selling single title,

and henry VIII was one of the most important monarchs in our history, he was the man who initially broke the power of the catholic church in this country, which paved the way for a the development of science as we know it. were they still in control there would have been no invisible colledge, without which the world would be a vastly different place.
 
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Bob Roberts

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Although someone mentioned a total coarse readership of 55,000 it's actually a fair bit higher than that in total, possibly 200,000 - 250,000 when you total all the carp mags, AT, AM, IYCF, TCF, CF, CAT, MF, PF etc.

That assumes readers only buy one magazine each. I would suggest that a great many readers purchase three, even four titles per month. Many folk get both the Times and the Mail. Many of the Times readers also read Improve (or the other way round). I'd guess those who take the trouble to seek out CF and CAT read both. Same goes with the carp mags.

I'd suggest the unique purchasers are maybe not much more than 100,000 individuals (ignoring the impulse buyers). That's 80,000 coarse and 20,000 carp. Of course, the marketing guys convert sales to readership by applying a factor of about 4. In other words every copy is picked up by four fifferent people (takes in the supermarket lurkers).

I do recall the AT claiming a readership of 250,000 but the sales were never anywhere near that volume.

The majority of paper based media has taken a massive hit with the advent of the internet and digital TV. I happen to think the angling press is doing very well taking everything into consideration.
 

jcp01

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Although someone mentioned a total coarse readership of 55,000 it's actually a fair bit higher than that in total, possibly 200,000 - 250,000

Sounds fair...

One of my local tobacconists carries virtually every title under the sun running the entire gamut from fly, through coarse, to sea and beyond...

I think I am the only customer though!
 
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cb

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Is this writing / advice any good?

Of the CARP.

IT is confessed by all, that the Carp is the Queen of all fresh-water-fish, being not only a good, but subtle fish and living longest of all fish (excepting the Eel) out of his proper element. Those that die soonest are Herrings, for salt water; and for fresh-water, Trout.

Carp are observed to breed several months in one year; and for this reason you shall hardly ever take either males or females without melt or spawn. They breed ever more naturally in ponds than in running water: in the latter very seldom or never; and where they breed, they breed innumerably.

He that intends to angle for a carp, must: arm himself with a world of patience, by reason of the extraordinary subtlety and policy of that fish: They always choose to lie in the deepest places either of Ponds or Rivers where is but a small running stream. Next, you are to observe that the carp will seldom bite in cold weather; and in hot weather you cannot be too early or too late at your sport: and if he bite you need not fear his hold, for he is one of those leather-mouth’d fish, who have their teeth in their throat.

When you angle for the carp, your rod and line must be strong; and because he is so very wary, it is good to entice him by baiting the ground with course paste: In March he seldom refuses the red worm, the caddis in June, nor the grasshopper in July, August, and September.

The carp takes delight in worms or sweet paste, of which there are great variety: the best are made up of honey and sugar, and ought to be thrown into your water some hours before you intend to angle; or if you throw in your paste made into small pellets two or three days before, it will not be the worst especially if you throw in also chickens-guts, garbage or blood incorporating with bran or cow dung.

You may make your paste in this manner: take a convenient quantity of bean-flour, or any other flour, and mingle it with the flesh of a cat cut small; make up this composition with Honey and then beat them all together in a mortar so long, till they are so tough as to hang upon a hook without washing off.

For the better effecting thereof, mingle there with some whitish wool; and if you would keep it all year, add thereunto some virgins-wax and clarified honey.

If you fish with gentles, anoint them with honey and put them on your hook with a piece of scarlet dipped in the like. This is the most approved way to deceive and captivate the subtle carp. Honey and crumbs of white-bread mixed together is a very good paste for a carp.

+++++

I just happened upon it - written in 1686! by Nicholas Cox.

(sorry to butt in!)
 

Bob Roberts

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But plaigarism was rife in those days.

Since when did anything change, Ron? It's rife today, probably more so than ever with the proliferation of titles and t'internet.

I've seen no end of my ideas and themes ripped-off down the years but none so smugly satisfying as the technique we 'invented' as a joke and put in an article...

Oh, how we giggled at the 'expert writers' who went on to promote the practise as something they'd used to great effect, too, completely ignorant of the wind-up...!!!!!!!

Or the subtleties of the past. Once, when I was a bit miffed with someone, I wrote articles with coded messages in the titles...

The one about swivels, called 'Swivel on it'. The one on hooks, 'What's The Point?' Or maybe the one about butt grips, 'Up Your Butt'. Seriously... They were published with no-one being the wiser!

As an aside, will we ever see an end to the terrible use of English language? I quote from an article I read only this morning, "Use a heavy 2-3oz lead..."

Err, is that as opposed to a light 2-3oz lead?

Or: "Ever since I became an angler I have always..."

Grates on the teeth, doesn't it?

And what exactly does 'awesome' mean? In context I would suggest the occurance of something exceptional, remarkably rare or astonishing. Later-day angling writers have *******ised it to the point where they appear to experience something 'awesome' on an hourly basis.

The asterisks in the word above were put there presumably by the profanity filter. The word in question was not swearing, although it began with a 'B', then an 'A', there was also an 'S' and a 'T'... An alternative word might have been corrupted.
 
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cb

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Obviously Cox was copying Isaak Walton.

But plaigarism was rife in those days.

You are quite right Ron!

Here is an extract from the original:

Observations of the Carp ; with Directions how to Fish for him.

The Complete Angler by Isaac Walton and Charles Cotton 1653 +


PISC. The Carp is the queen of rivers ; a stately, a good, and a very subtle fish ; that was riot at first bred, nor hath been long in England, but is now naturalised. It is said they were brought hither by one Mr. Mascal, a gentleman that then lived at Plumstead, in Sussex, a county that abounds more with fish than any in this nation. You may remember that I told you Gesner says there are no pikes in Spain ; and doubtless there was a time, about a hundred or a few more years ago, when there were no carps in England, as may seem to be affirmed by Sir Richard Baker, in whose Chronicle you may find these verses :

Hops and turkeys carps and beer
Came into England all in a year.


And doubtless, as of sea-fish the herring dies soonest out of the water, and of fresh-water fish, the trout, so (except the eel) the carp endures most hardness, and lives longest out of his own proper element. And, therefore, the report of the carp's being brought out of a foreign country into this nation is the more probable.
Carps and loaches are observed to breed several months in one year, which pikes and most other fish do not. And this is partly proved by tame and wild rabbits; and also by some ducks, which will lay eggs nine out of the twelve months ; and yet there be other ducks that lay not longer than about one month. And it is the rather to be believed, because you shall scarce or never take a male carp without a melt, or a female without a roe or spawn, and for the most part, very much, and especially all the summer season. And it is observed that they breed more naturally in ponds than in running waters (if they breed there at all) ; and that those that live in rivers are taken by men of the best palates to be much the better meat.

And it is observed that in some ponds carps will not breed, especially in cold ponds ; but where they will breed they breed innumerably : Aristotle and Pliny say six times in a year, if there be no pikes or perch to devour their spawn, when it is cast upon grass, or flags, or weeds, where it lies ten or twelve days before it is enlivened.

The carp, if he have water room and good feed, will grow to a very great bigness and length ; I have heard, to be much above a yard long. 'Tis said (by Jovius, who hath writ of fishes) that in the lake Lurian in Italy carps have thriven to be more than fifty pounds weight ; which is the more probable, for as the bear is conceived and born suddenly, and being born, is but short-lived, so, on the contrary, the elephant is said to be two years in his dam's belly (some think he is ten years in it), and being born, grows in bigness twenty years ; and 'tis observed, too, that he lives to the age of a hundred years. And 'tis also observed that the crocodile is very long-lived, and more than that, that all that long life he thrives in bigness ; and so I think some carps do, especially in some places ; though I never saw one above twenty-three inches, which was a great and a goodly fish ; but have been assured they are of a far greater size, and in England too.

Now, as the increase of carps is wonderful for their number, so there is not a reason found out, I think, by any, why they should breed in some ponds, and not in others of the same nature for soil and all other circumstances. And as their breeding, so are their decays also very mysterious : I have both read it, and been told by a gentleman of tried honesty, that he has known sixty or more large carps put into several ponds near to a house, where, by reason of the stakes in the ponds, and the owner's constant being near to them, it was impossible they should be stole away from him ; and that when he has, after three or four years, emptied the pond, and expected an increase from them by breeding young ones (for that they might do so, he had, as the rule is, put in three melters for one spawner), he has, I say, after three or four years, found neither a young nor old carp remaining. And the like I have known of one that had almost watched the pond, and at a like distance of time, at the fishing of the pond, found, of seventy or eighty large carps, not above five or six ; and that he had foreborne longer to fish the said pond, but that he saw, in a hot day in summer, a large carp swim near the top of the water with a frog upon his head ; and that he, upon that occasion, caused his pond to be let dry : and I say, of seventy or eighty carps, only found five or six in the said pond, and those very sick and Jean, and with every one a frog sticking so fast on the head of the said carps, that the frog would not be got off without extreme force or killing. And the gentleman that did affirm this to me, told me he saw it ; and did declare his belief to be (and I also believe the same) that he thought the other carps, that were so strangely lost, were so killed by the frogs, and then devoured.

And a person of honour, now living in Worcestershire, assured me he had seen a necklace or collar of tadpoles, hang like a chain or neck- lace of beads about a pike's neck, and to kill him ; whether it be for meat or malice must be to me a question.

But I am fallen into this discourse by accident, of which I might say more, but it has proved longer than I intended, and possibly may not to you be considerable ; I shall therefore give you three or four more short observations of the carp, and then fall upon some directions how you shall fish for him.

The age of carps is by Sir Francis Bacon, in his History of Life and Death observed to be but ten years ; yet others think they live longer. Gesner says a carp has been known to live in the Palatinate above a hundred years ; but most conclude, that (contrary to the pike or luce) all carps are the better for age and bigness. The tongues of carps are noted to be choice and costly meat, especially to them that buy them : but Gesner says carps have no tongue like other fish, but a piece of flesh-like fish in their mouth like to a tongue, and should be called a palate : but it is certain it is choicely good ; and that the carp is to be reckoned amongst those leather- mouthed fish, which I told you have their teeth in their throat, and for that reason he is very seldom lost by breaking his hold, if your hook be once stuck into his chaps.

I told you that Sir Francis Bacon thinks that the carp lives but ten years ; but Janus Dubravius has writ a book, Of Fish and Fish- ponds, in which he says, that carps begin to spawn at the age of three years, and continue to do so till thirty : he says also, that in the time of their breeding, which is in summer, when the sun hath warmed both the earth and water, and so apted them also for generation, that then three or four male carps will follow a female ; and that then, she putting on a seeming coyness, they force her through weeds and flags, where she lets fall her eggs or spawn, which sticks fast to the weeds ; and then they let fall their melt upon it, and so it be- comes in a short time to be a living fish : and, as I told you, it is thought that the carp does this several months in the year. And most believe that most fish breed after this manner except the eel. And it has been observed, that when the spawner has weakened her- self by doing that natural office, that two or three melters have helped her from off the weeds, by bearing her up on both sides, and guarding her into the deep. And you may note, that though this may seem a curiosity not worth observing, yet others have judged it worth their time and cost to make glass hives, and order them in such a manner as to see how bees have bred and make their honey- combs, and how they have obeyed their king, and governed their commonwealth. But it is thought that all carps are not bred by generation ; but that some breed other ways, as some pikes do.

The physicians make the galls and stones in the heads of carps to be very medicinable. But 'tis not to be doubted but that in Italy they make great profit of the spawn of carps, by selling it to the Jews, who make it into red caviare ; the Jews not being by their law admitted to eat of cavaire made of the sturgeon, that being a fish that wants scales, and (as may appear in Lev. 1 1 ) by them reputed to be unclean.

Much more might be said out of him, and out of Aristotle, which Dubravius often quotes in his Discourse of Fishes ; but it might rather perplex than satisfy you ; and therefore I shall rather choose to direct you how to catch, than spend more time in discoursing either of the nature or the breeding of this carp, or of any more circumstances concerning him ; but yet I shall remember you of what I told you before, that he is a very subtle fish, and hard to be caught.

And my first direction is, that if you will fish for a carp, you must put on a very large measure of patience ; especially to fish for a river carp : I have known a very good fisher angle diligently four or six hours in a day, for three or four days together, for a river carp, and not have a bite : and you are to note that in some ponds it is as hard to catch a carp as in a river ; that is to say, where they have store of feed, and the water is of a clayish colour ; but you are to remember that I have told you there is no rule without an exception ; and therefore being possessed with that hope and patience which I wish to all fishers, especially to the carp-angler, I shall tell you with what bait to fish for him. But first, you are to know that it must be either early or late ; and let me tell you that in hot weather (for he will seldom bite in cold) you cannot be too early or too late at it. And some have been so curious as to say the tenth of April is a fatal day for carps.

The carp bites either at worms or at paste ; and of worms I think the bluish marsh or meadow worm is best ; but possibly another worm not too big may do as well, and so may a green gentle : and as for pastes, there are almost as many sorts as there are medicines for the toothache ; but doubtless sweet pastes are the best ; I mean pastes made with honey or with sugar ; which, that you may the better beguile this crafty fish, should be thrown in the pond or place in which you fish for him some hours, or longer, before you undertake your trial of skill with the angle-rod ; and doubtless if it be thrown into the water a day or two before, at several times, and in small pellets, you are the likelier, when you fish for the carp, to obtain your desired sport. Or, in a large pond, to draw them to a certain place, that they may the better and with more hope be fished for, you are to throw into it, in some certain place, either grains or blood mixed with cow-dung, or with bran ; or any garbage, as chickens' guts or the like ; and then some of your small sweet pellets with which you purpose to angle : and these small pellets being a few of them also thrown in as you are angling, will be the better.

And your paste must be thus made : take the flesh of a rabbit or cat cut small ; and bean flour ; and if that may not be easily got, get other flour ; and then mix these together, and put to them either sugar, or honey, which I think better ; and then beat these together in a mortar, or sometimes work them in your hands (your hands being very clean) ; and then make it into a ball, or two, or three, as you like best, for your use ; but you must work or pound it so long in the mortar as to make it so tough as to hang upon your hook, without washing from it, yet not too hard ; or, that you may the better keep it on your hook, you may knead with your paste a little (and not much) white or yellowish wool.

And if you would have this paste keep all the year, for any other fish, then mix with it virgin wax, and clarified honey, and work them together with your hands before the fire ; then make these into balls, and they will keep all the year.

And if you fish for a carp with gentles, then put upon your hook a little piece of scarlet about this bigness, it being soaked in or anointed with oil of peter, called by some oil of the rock ; and if your gentles be put two or three days before into a box or horn anointed with honey, and so put upon your hook as to preserve them to be living, you are as like to kill this crafty fish this way as any other; but still, as you are fishing, chew a little white or brown bread in your mouth, and cast it into the pond about the place where your floats wims. Other baits there be ; but these, with diligence and patient watchfulness, will do it better than any that I have ever practised, or heard of : and yet I shall tell you that the crumb of white bread and honey, made into a paste, is a good bait for a carp ; and you know it is more easily made. And having said thus much of a carp, my next discourse shall be of the bream ; which shall not prove so tedious, aud therefore I desire the continuance of your attention.

But, first, I will tell you how to make this carp, that is so curious to be caught, so curious a dish of meat, as shall make him worth all your labour and patience ; and though it is not without some trouble and charges, yet it will recompense both.

Take a carp (alive if possible), scour him, and rub him clean with water and salt, but scale him not ; then open him, and put him, with his blood, and his liver (which you must save when you open him) into a small pot or kettle ; then take sweet marjoram, thyme, and parsley, of each half a handful, a sprig of rosemary, and another of savory, bind them into two or three small bundles, and put them to your carp, with four or five whole onions, twenty pickled oysters, and three anchovies. Then pour upon your carp as much claret wine as will only cover him, and season your claret well with salt, .cloves, and mace, and the rinds of oranges and lemons; that done, cover your pot and set it on a quick fire till it be sufficiently boiled ; then take out the carp and lay it with the broth into the dish, and pour upon it a quarter of a pound of the best fresh butter, melted and beaten with half-a-dozen spoonfuls of the broth, the yolks of two or three eggs, and some of the herbs shred ; garnish your dish with lemons, and so serve it up, and much good do you.
 

dezza

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I do recall the AT claiming a readership of 250,000 but the sales were never anywhere near that volume.

I was taken to task some time ago for suggesting that at one period in time the AT weekly circulation was in excess of 250,000.

What they might have insinuated was that the "Readership" of AT was close to that figure. I read somewhere that most newspapers have a readership of 4. But this was some time ago. I don't think it's as high as this these days.

---------- Post added at 02:02 ---------- Previous post was at 01:55 ----------

Take a carp (alive if possible), scour him, and rub him clean with water and salt, but scale him not ; then open him, and put him, with his blood, and his liver (which you must save when you open him) into a small pot or kettle ; then take sweet marjoram, thyme, and parsley, of each half a handful, a sprig of rosemary, and another of savory, bind them into two or three small bundles, and put them to your carp, with four or five whole onions, twenty pickled oysters, and three anchovies. Then pour upon your carp as much claret wine as will only cover him, and season your claret well with salt, .cloves, and mace, and the rinds of oranges and lemons; that done, cover your pot and set it on a quick fire till it be sufficiently boiled ; then take out the carp and lay it with the broth into the dish, and pour upon it a quarter of a pound of the best fresh butter, melted and beaten with half-a-dozen spoonfuls of the broth, the yolks of two or three eggs, and some of the herbs shred ; garnish your dish with lemons, and so serve it up, and much good do you.

Can you imagine demonstrating that recipe at a Carp Society conference?

I cannot imagine anything more vile than cooking a fish in it's own blood. The only animal that is cooked in it's own blood is the hare.
 

Cliff Hatton

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I don't think a PC screen is a good or appropriate medium for reading prose; it's ok for instructive literature, adverts, blogs...well, just about everything - but not for stories and the like. It rather 'cheapens' the content, I reckon. There's no substitute for a nice, heavy, aromatic book is there!
 

journo_greg

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If the second 'Chevin' book is anything like as good as the first then it deserves to sell out. I blagged a copy of the first one from a dusty shelf in the AT library and it was the best thing I laid my hands on in six years! I read it cover to cover loads of times and then foolishly lent it to someone and never saw it again - probably the book John spotted at auction for 400 sheets!!!
Put me down for a copy please John. I'll ring you in a few weeks to arrange payment (hopefully for a few quid more you can post it to Guernsey).
Cheers,
Greg
 

Lee Swords

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I think the Carp recipe sounds very palatable.

Cooking with blood isn't that strange...

Black pudding is a prime example...little bits of pork pork fat spices and pearl barly cooked with pigs blood in a nice tight length of gut membrane.

Or how about cooking with cephalopod ink?...It's not blood but still not a million miles away.

Pasta Nero is a classic

We of the modern age are a tad too squeamish at times
 

flightliner

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The best in angling writing then-- the one book or part of one that really got your angling juices going? For me it has to be Venables Mr Crabtree goes fishing, and the chapter covering the old "All England Championship" match on the Trent in John Hillabies "Within the Stream"
 
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