The very best in coarse writing?

slb

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i could only go off one of the ABC industry figures, which was showing one of the golf titles at round 85K and purportedly the top angling title round 55k

That is interesting and sounds like a fairly accurate readership figure to me. Quite often the figures include all the trade freebies and comps to bump up the numbers closer to 80k.
 

captain carrott

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That is interesting and sounds like a fairly accurate readership figure to me. Quite often the figures include all the trade freebies and comps to bump up the numbers closer to 80k.


i think they were the 12 month averages for 2009
 

slb

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surely if the mags were engaging the interest of their target audience then more than 5.5% of it would be reading them.

And now we get into the same territory inhabited by the Angling Trust who cannot work out why only 12k anglers are interested in joining them.
The fact is - far and away the vast majority of anglers are not even slightly interested in reading about their sport or taking any active role in it.
Like I said before, sad bit true.
 

captain carrott

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And now we get into the same territory inhabited by the Angling Trust who cannot work out why only 12k anglers are interested in joining them.
The fact is - far and away the vast majority of anglers are not even slightly interested in reading about their sport or taking any active role in it.
Like I said before, sad bit true.


like i said before they should look very very hard at the RSPB and learn.
 

chav professor

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WaterLog

Try Waterlog magazine - good coffee table piece. Edited by Chris Yates should give you a feel for the content.............
 

Bob Roberts

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but as this "base" appears to be around 5.5% of the potential target audience wouldn't this then suggest otherwise, surely if the mags were engaging the interest of their target audience then more than 5.5% of it would be reading them.

I'm afraid you're hoist upon your own petard, sir!

The vast majority of anglers fish with poles on commercial fisheries followed by those who fish for carp. This is what most successful magazines feature...

Golf is a far more affluent market compared with fishing. Nor is it splintered into seperate factions. Golf is round balls, 18 holes and a set of clubs. Angling is many disciplines, some so far removed from each other as to be completely different pastimes. Drey fley, old boy?

At the risk of generalising, those who criticise the status quo tend to be look down their noses at commercial fisheries, match anglers, 'serious' carpers, etc. They are in a narrow minority who yearn for the days of Mr Crabtree while claiming to be forward thinking.

There are a couple of outstanding free magazines online featuring the finest photography around. It's not as if aspirational media doesn't exist. However, there is not a great market for this stuff in the UK and once again I cite Waterlog as there is no other publication within the genre.

I ask you again, who will write this mythical magazine, where will the groundbreaking and revolutionary fresh content come from and who will bankroll it? The only model that is being championed (Waterlog) is not only guilty of the very crime current magazines commit - regurgitation of ideas - it positively thrives on it. Rather than leading us into the next millennium it seeks to take us back into the last one.

And the circulation is tiny.

We should never forget that coarse angling is regarded as a working class, blue collar sport. It is not even on the advertising agencies radar. Leading publications in other sports carry adverts for products that have no relation to the sport, only to the (affluent) readership.

We all need cars to go fishing but no motoring manufacturer is going to target the angling market. Were probably regarded as vans and banger merchants.

Anglers in general are too 'cheap' to shell out £5 on a decent magazine, too cheap to join the Angling Trust, too ready to buy knock-off gear and shoddy foreign imports. I could go on, but what's the point?

If you had a million pounds to squander on a whim would you invest in a golf, a tennis, a football or a fishing magazine?

Case rests milud...
 

dezza

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Unfortunate, but very true Bob.

The late Barrie Rickards once stated in print that coarse anglers do not read!

This is absolutely true, in fact a fair proportion of coarse anglers can't read, if the truth be known.
 

jef bertels

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Bob's seen it from the business end so I don't doubt him that those are the top 5 priorities for a mag, with the customer not appearing.

Based on those 5 priorities, I can't see any mag surviving whilst producing the excellent content we want. The titles that have fallen by the wayside prove that.

The mantra in web publishing is "content is king" - in print however, content is not king - profit is. That's the way it has to be due to costs of printing and distribution.

So big question...is there room for a decent internet mag to make profit, with no print costs, lower distribution costs, wider reach, no limit on article length, links to video etc? If they abide by "content is king" first, will the customers come (and pay!)?

v2v_steve - I followed your link and read your magazine - by way of feedback...I think it's very 'me-too' - nothing I haven't seen before many times. That said, I enjoyed it, found the commentary friendly and accessible, liked your layout and the way you took advantage of no space constraint and expanded upon tuition points for the beginner. If the base of the triangle in the earlier analogy is your market I think you hit your market very well.
 
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Bob Roberts

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So big question...is there room for a decent internet mag to make profit, with no print costs, lower distribution costs, wider reach, no limit on article length, links to video etc? If they abide by "content is king" first, will the customers come (and pay!)?QUOTE]

I take it you have never seen Catch magazine or This Is Fly then...

Looks like you're in for a treat.

Keep forgetting to add my plug at the bottom of my posts - doh!
www.bobrobertsonline.co.uk
 

jef bertels

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I take it you have never seen Catch magazine or This Is Fly then...

Looks like you're in for a treat.

This thread is about coarse writing but yep, Catch shows some of what can be done with the medium. As you say, a treat.

I agree with Ron and think many anglers wouldn't ever read a mag. Even more don't use the internet - the club I'm with has a large percentage of members that don't even have an email address.

For those reasons I don't think an internet mag should aim at the base of the aforementioned triangle. And agreed, those at the top of the triangle don't know what they want and is a tiny, fickle market.

I wonder if there's scope though for a mag aimed at the rest of that triangle (still a sizeable chunk). Internet users, willing and able to pay a few quid, probably reading it whilst at work :), keen anglers but haven't seen it all yet and thirsty for more. Maybe that market is too small?
 

904_cannon

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There is no way I would subscribe to any internet magazine in preference to any paper mag. With an actual, as opposed to virtual magazine, I can pick and read for 2, 20 minutes or for whatever length of time, cup of tea in one hand, leg over the side of the chair,(when the wife is out) and watch TV at the same time if I have a mind to.

Although I probably spend more time than I should in front of a laptop screen, it cant ever take away the pleasure of sitting down and reading a real printed on paper publication. Even if CAT went 'virtual' with no other option I would not subscribe.
 

jcp01

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55k is an interesting figure as a total readership for coarse angling literature

If true then that would mean that my poky little blog currently gets an incredible 2.54% of it per month ( That's probably more than Waterlog gets quarterly!) and the viewing figures have doubled since January. Good business growth, by any standard.

Advertising rates on application...;)
 
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jef bertels

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my poky little blog

I've just read some more (dipped into it before) of your Idler's Quest blog. Love it. I liked reading about your sea fishing aswell as coarse. Always gobsmacks me that we're an island, with none of us really far from coastline and more coarse anglers don't try it. They say they're bored of similar looking carp in commercials yet an hour or two's drive from them are fish species most will never even have set eyes on before.

I'll be a regular reader from now - cheers.
 

Dave Slater

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I'm with you on this John, I prefer reading to looking at the computer. I usually prefer reading books to magazines as they are more in-depth but everything has a purpose. Just treat everything in the right way. I quite often pick up one of the weeklies, usually AT, for a quick read. They are not meant to be literary masterpieces but give a quick overview on what is going on and are fine for the purpose they are designed for. Monthly magazines are a bit more in depth and specialised, but I only buy them occasionally, usually when thre is a specific article I want to read, as I generally prefer to read a book. There are also some excellent DVD's around and these are good to watch when not in the mood for reading. I like FM for a bit of banter but
I am not sure I like the idea of an on-line magazine.
 

dezza

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An on-line magazine will not work. Successful websites like this one are successful because of what they are.

And successful magazines are in another class, printed on paper - quite different.

Both genres can compliment each other.

Waterlog once had the ability to become a great magazine. Not now, it's lost it and the reason for this is the magazines obsession with the late Victorian/Edwardian period.

And the constant deprecation of the modern angler!

People often try to compare Waterlog with the old "Creel" magazine. Sorry but you can't. Creel was quite forward looking in it's day; it even had a monthly report entitled: "With the Specimen Hunters".

Creel was bang up to date.

Waterlog is a horrible anachronism!
 

dezza

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Do you teach the real reason why Henry VIII had so many wives Paul.

When I went to school my history teacher wouldn't tell the truth.
 

Lee Swords

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Henry VIII had so many wives because he was the "king" and he could do what ever he wanted and the Pope could suck his big golden sceptre!
 
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