Tired of being abused by know-it-alls

[rayner]

I don't know why, may be it's because they're an infiltrator.
Perhaps if someone were to contact the EA directly an answer may come. I'm sure I read it a few year ago.

 

[steve2]

Just why banging a fish on the head raises such anger in some is beyond me. Zander in some canals have been removed for years they were illegally stocked in the first place.

 

[markcw]

It is interesting to note that tomino is still online and therefor must be able to read the replies to his thread,
yet he has not joined in the debate, or admitted or denied the zander was for the pot, He seemed to be equipped
for it, something to knock it on the head with and something to put it in, "unfortunately" he did not have a cool box with him.
was he using the law to his own means by knocking it on the head, ? I think a non European angler would have unhooked it and released it. As s63 says he courts controversy. Over to you tomino..

 

[thecrow]

I have searched through several EA sites and can find nothing about zander and their removal, they are more interested in things like the Top Mouthed Gudgeon or black bullhead and fathead minnow although at both known locations of the latter 2 they are reported as iradicated.

I do know that in the area that I live the electro fishing on canals for them stopped many years ago, lack of cash or no longer seeing them as alien?

How long does a fish have to be in the UK before it is not considered as alien? are Rainbow Trout an alien species?

 

[fishplate42]

I found the following on the C&RT website, it may clarify some points:

Can I return a zander to the canal?
As the law stands, it is illegal to return a zander or any other non-native fish species to the canal network. This is set out in the terms and conditions of our KIFR permits.
You are allowed to take zander and other fish species classified by DEFRA as non-native for the pot.

The whole page can be found HERE.

Ralph.

 

[thecrow]

Thank you Ralph the CRT was my next port of call after cutting some hot and spicy spam up ready for a session (Asda are doing the smaller tin at £1 a tin at the moment) mind I would still have accidently dropped the fish back into the water.

 

[tomino2112]

It is interesting to note that tomino is still online and therefor must be able to read the replies to his thread,
yet he has not joined in the debate, or admitted or denied the zander was for the pot, He seemed to be equipped
for it, something to knock it on the head with and something to put it in, "unfortunately" he did not have a cool box with him.
was he using the law to his own means by knocking it on the head, ? I think a non European angler would have unhooked it and released it. As s63 says he courts controversy. Over to you tomino..

It might surprise you but I have a job and cannot spend all day reading and writing on a forum. I was upset about my experience and wrote it down on a commute to work. Opened the forum to read some replies and kept working. Do I need to explain myself any further?

To answer some questions:

* Indeed I do not know why did I bother to write anything on this forum. No matter if person is right or wrong the attitude does not change here.

* Crow - hello again - read Canal trust website for information about Zander

* Zander for the pot - No I did not target Zander, as a matter of fact I was Perch fishing and I was unfortunate enough to having caught Zander and the fish not biting through my line. That being said we have enjoyed the fish on the grill later on (and I dont feel one bit bad about it).

* Coolbox - I do not wish to keep fishing with rotting fish in a bag on my back. If I have to dispatch it I prefer to keep it fresh

* Something to knock it on the head, eg. "Priest" - of course I have one and so should you! It is a responsibility of every angler to be ready to make a kill if necessary. As I mentioned somewhere here before, anglers are hunters and same as you need to be able to kill deer with a knife for example when its badly hurt, you should have means to kill a fish. I personally dont like to smack them on the ground as I have seen many doing before.

* How did they know I was European - I dont know, you tell me... I do not fit to "British" profile, I suppose I am very standard russian/polish/ee look-alike...

* Half drunk - ok maybe they were 75% drunk... who cares. They were not sober and not drunk enough to be crawling on the ground.

* Why did I kill it in full view of others - I did not, I actually made sure that noone was around, from behind what corner they saw me I have no idea, I just heard thumping as they were running

* It is not because I am not English - I will not argue this, who knows, but I am convinced the response would be different if I would be visibly english

* Crow slipping the fish back - Bravo! you are part of the problem

* Have I had a coolbox how many Zander would join in - As many as I would catch during the session! I am obedient to the rules of the venue I am fishing and it clearly states that it is an offence to return them to the water.


I have actually made a friend in the EA and talked to him about my experience as well, and he told me that Zander in canals are considered almost as otters in rivers and lakes and that I should continue to remove any that I run into. I have also enquired to my local fishery if they would want them if I keep them alive and they said absolutely not.

Have I known that so many people here are unaware of that this is actually offence I probably would not have written this post.

BTW I am amazed that lots of you have me labeled as "trouble maker" or whatever just because I voice my opinions/frustrations that dont fit to your day. I dont see the point of this forum if only thing you can share here is picture of your catch and a float you tried to make, god forbid you try to discuss something serious..

 

[sam vimes]

Tomino,
your last post suggests that you are bringing a foreign ethos to your fishing that the vast majority of UK anglers simply do not share. The idea that every angler should carry a priest is an absolute anathema to most UK coarse anglers. Taking a priest with you every time you fish will mark you out as different, even if you did look and sound entirely British. Regardless of the law on invasive species, the vast bulk of UK anglers do not wish to kill fish, or have fish killed by anyone else. The fact that, by killing the zander, you are operating within the law, and they would not be by returning one, is largely immaterial. The law is an ass that doesn't match up to the realities of the attitudes of the majority of UK coarse anglers. Killing the fish, and going equipped to do so, is essentially what marks you out as a target for abuse. Foreign looks and an accent only exacerbates the situation with the Neanderthals you are encountering.

 

[binka]

I was under the impression that canal Zander had to be killed.

I've had several over the years, the trouble is the ones I caught just happened to feel slimier than Bream and on each occasion they have evaded my grip and wriggled their way back into the canal :wh

Clumsy old me eh?

 

[S-Kippy]

Well.....I have learned something today ie the fact that zander are not to be returned, or can be taken, in certain circumstances,waters or catchments etc. I didn't know that....I find it on the astonishing side of surprising but there it is.

Not sure I'd get away with tapping one on the head at Bury Hill but that's not a canal and the owner certainly has not given his permission. I'd be slung off double sharp if I tried it though I'd likely get lynched by other anglers first.

And that is the point I'm afraid as Chris said earlier. Its the killing of the fish that probably kicked this all off.

I'm more surprised by those Severn Trent byelaws on what is "takeable".....they seem positively Victorian.

 

[thecrow]

It might surprise you but I have a job and cannot spend all day reading and writing on a forum. I was upset about my experience and wrote it down on a commute to work. Opened the forum to read some replies and kept working. Do I need to explain myself any further?

To answer some questions:

* Indeed I do not know why did I bother to write anything on this forum. No matter if person is right or wrong the attitude does not change here.

No nothing changes on here just a lot of good anglers sharing information and experiences.

* Crow - hello again - read Canal trust website for information about Zander

Already done and if you had bothered to read my posts you would know that I had been searching to find what the law is now.

* Zander for the pot - No I did not target Zander, as a matter of fact I was Perch fishing and I was unfortunate enough to having caught Zander and the fish not biting through my line. That being said we have enjoyed the fish on the grill later on (and I dont feel one bit bad about it).

I have taken the odd Zander myself, deeply hooked ones rarely survive.

* Coolbox - I do not wish to keep fishing with rotting fish in a bag on my back. If I have to dispatch it I prefer to keep it fresh

* Something to knock it on the head, eg. "Priest" - of course I have one and so should you! It is a responsibility of every angler to be ready to make a kill if necessary. As I mentioned somewhere here before, anglers are hunters and same as you need to be able to kill deer with a knife for example when its badly hurt, you should have means to kill a fish. I personally dont like to smack them on the ground as I have seen many doing before.

Absolute rubbish, if you don't want to catch fish that you need to bash over the head don't fish where you are liable to catch one, I don't know and have never known a course fish angler to carry a priest

* How did they know I was European - I dont know, you tell me... I do not fit to "British" profile, I suppose I am very standard russian/polish/ee look-alike...

Maybe they thought you were from Eastern Europe because of the problems caused in some areas by others from those parts with the killing and taking of fish, maybe it was an accent that you have I can quite easily be identified as coming from the midlands by my accent, we all have them.

* Half drunk - ok maybe they were 75% drunk... who cares. They were not sober and not drunk enough to be crawling on the ground.

so that was something that you surmised just as they surmised that you were from Eastern Europe in reality you have no idea if or how drunk they were, they could very easily have been diabetics with low blood sugar although unlikely but surmising things works both ways.

* Why did I kill it in full view of others - I did not, I actually made sure that noone was around, from behind what corner they saw me I have no idea, I just heard thumping as they were running

Oh they must have had the ability to see round corners then, you must have known that what you were about to do could have if you were seen have caused an argument

* It is not because I am not English - I will not argue this, who knows, but I am convinced the response would be different if I would be visibly English

Who is visibly English? how can one tell, you might remember my daughters partner from Kingston Jamaica would anyone think he looked Jamaican, no because he is white.

* Crow slipping the fish back - Bravo! you are part of the problem

Yep and glad to be part of lots of more enlightened anglers in this country that think the same, I will be staying part of the problem for as long as I live.

* Have I had a coolbox how many Zander would join in - As many as I would catch during the session! I am obedient to the rules of the venue I am fishing and it clearly states that it is an offence to return them to the water.

Then you are likely to have many more unpleasant experiences but as you have intimated in the past you can look after yourself, just don't fish where or with methods that are liable to catch a Zander and it wont happen at all.


I have actually made a friend in the EA and talked to him about my experience as well, and he told me that Zander in canals are considered almost as otters in rivers and lakes and that I should continue to remove any that I run into. I have also enquired to my local fishery if they would want them if I keep them alive and they said absolutely not.

Almost as bad as otter? would that be the otters that the EA helped reintroduce? I can show you waters that have had Zander in them for over 40 years that are as balanced as you could ever find, if that's the standard thinking of an EA employee I dread to think who would listen to him.

Have I known that so many people here are unaware of that this is actually offence I probably would not have written this post.

Always good to point out the laws of this country to others that were not sure or even ignorant of them even if some will ignore the laws

BTW I am amazed that lots of you have me labeled as "trouble maker" or whatever just because I voice my opinions/frustrations that dont fit to your day. I dont see the point of this forum if only thing you can share here is picture of your catch and a float you tried to make, god forbid you try to discuss something serious..

You are not forced to come here and if you don't like or receive the answers/posts you expect don't come, I would find it a shame if you didn't but you do have a choice, this is imo the best, most informative, friendly forum there is with lots of very good anglers in most fields of angling, it doesn't suit everyone but I doubt you will find better.

 

[thecrow]

I'm more surprised by those Severn Trent byelaws on what is "takeable".....they seem positively Victorian.

Like most of their pipework but unfortunately not their bills

I would have given your post a like but the facility seems to have disappeared on your post. here's one anyway :thumbs:

 

[sam vimes]

I'm more surprised by those Severn Trent byelaws on what is "takeable".....they seem positively Victorian.

Most regional byelaws are similar. Most UK coarse anglers are entirely unaware that these byelaws exist and that taking fish can be quite legal. However, it's worth noting that the vast bulk of riparian owners do not allow anything other than salmonids and grayling to be taken, regardless of what the byelaws allow. Here's an extract from the South East byelaws, which I believe will be the area you tend to fish.

"On rivers, you may take no more than -
 one pike of less than 65cm per day
 two grayling of between 30 and 38cm per day
 a total of fifteen barbel, chub, common bream, common carp, crucian carp, dace, perch, pike, roach, rudd, silver bream, smelt or tench (including any hybrids of these species) of less than 20cm per day
All lengths are measured from the tip of the snout to the fork of the tail."

Here are all the various regional byelaws.

 

[David Gane]

Surely, all the discussion of byelaws is pointless. Isn't the point that when you are hosted by another country you should adapt to their standards whatever they are and whether or not you agree with them? Isn't that simple courtesy?

The vast majority of coarse anglers in this country support catch and release for the very good reason that if you kill them today they won't be there tomorrow. I think the discussion here shows that and Tomino should respect it.

 

[markcw]

It might surprise you but I have a job and cannot spend all day reading and writing on a forum. I was upset about my experience and wrote it down on a commute to work. Opened the forum to read some replies and kept working. Do I need to explain myself any further?

To answer some questions:

* Indeed I do not know why did I bother to write anything on this forum. No matter if person is right or wrong the attitude does not change here.

* Crow - hello again - read Canal trust website for information about Zander

* Zander for the pot - No I did not target Zander, as a matter of fact I was Perch fishing and I was unfortunate enough to having caught Zander and the fish not biting through my line. That being said we have enjoyed the fish on the grill later on (and I dont feel one bit bad about it).

* Coolbox - I do not wish to keep fishing with rotting fish in a bag on my back. If I have to dispatch it I prefer to keep it fresh

* Something to knock it on the head, eg. "Priest" - of course I have one and so should you! It is a responsibility of every angler to be ready to make a kill if necessary. As I mentioned somewhere here before, anglers are hunters and same as you need to be able to kill deer with a knife for example when its badly hurt, you should have means to kill a fish. I personally dont like to smack them on the ground as I have seen many doing before.

* How did they know I was European - I dont know, you tell me... I do not fit to "British" profile, I suppose I am very standard russian/polish/ee look-alike...

* Half drunk - ok maybe they were 75% drunk... who cares. They were not sober and not drunk enough to be crawling on the ground.

* Why did I kill it in full view of others - I did not, I actually made sure that noone was around, from behind what corner they saw me I have no idea, I just heard thumping as they were running

* It is not because I am not English - I will not argue this, who knows, but I am convinced the response would be different if I would be visibly english

* Crow slipping the fish back - Bravo! you are part of the problem

* Have I had a coolbox how many Zander would join in - As many as I would catch during the session! I am obedient to the rules of the venue I am fishing and it clearly states that it is an offence to return them to the water.


I have actually made a friend in the EA and talked to him about my experience as well, and he told me that Zander in canals are considered almost as otters in rivers and lakes and that I should continue to remove any that I run into. I have also enquired to my local fishery if they would want them if I keep them alive and they said absolutely not.

Have I known that so many people here are unaware of that this is actually offence I probably would not have written this post.

BTW I am amazed that lots of you have me labeled as "trouble maker" or whatever just because I voice my opinions/frustrations that dont fit to your day. I dont see the point of this forum if only thing you can share here is picture of your catch and a float you tried to make, god forbid you try to discuss something serious..

What a Tool this bloke is,!!! the only anglers that carry a priest are game fishermen, why would I and other match/pleasure anglers need one, we do what is called catch and release. The fish I and others catch are unhurt, if any marks on them, there is antiseptic gels to put on the fish, Would the perch have joined the zander in the box if you had taken one,?? It sounds as if you just fish for the pot or target venues where you know you can get away with knocking fish on the head, It is not only on here you are controversial, you do the same on another fishing forum.I am not sure if a commercial in Staffs has some in a specimen lake similar to Bury Hill, I don't think you would be welcome back to those venues if you started depleting their stock.You not being English has no bearing on the abuse you said you had, people don't like seeing fish knocked on the head, You must have been acting furtive in the first place for that to happen,As for Zander in canals being compared to otters in a river, I was under the impression that Zander eat dead or dying fish ie they are more of a scavenger than predator.

 

[binka]

I dont see the point of this forum if only thing you can share here is picture of your catch and a float you tried to make, god forbid you try to discuss something serious..

There are many serious threads which arise but, in fairness, I think many people come here to escape the serious side of life and you can't knock 'em for that.

You never know what's happening in people's lives or when they just might need a diversion.

Fishing in general is a bit like that for me, whenever I start to take it too seriously I tend to find the fun diminishes.

 

[tomino2112]

What a Tool this bloke is,!!! the only anglers that carry a priest are game fishermen, why would I and other match/pleasure anglers need one, we do what is called catch and release. The fish I and others catch are unhurt, if any marks on them, their is antiseptic gels to put on the fish, Would the perch have joined the zander in the box if you had taken one, It sounds as if you just fish for the pot or target venues where you know you can get away with knocking fish on the head, It is not only on here you are controversial, you do the same on another fishing forum.I am not sure if a commercial in Staffs has some in a specimen lake similar to Bury Hill, I don't think you would be welcome back to those venues if you started depleting their stock.You not being English has no bearing on the abuse you said you had, people don't like seeing fish knocked on the head, You must have been acting furtive in the first place for that to happen,As for Zander in canals being compared to otters in a river, I was under the impression that Zander eat dead or dying fish ie they are more of a scavenger than predator.

Thanks for proving my point by calling names, that actually made me happy :thumbs:

Carry priest is same as carrying disgorger. Why do you do it (or you should)? Out of respect ad care for the life of the creatures you hunt. Did it not ever happen to you that pike attacked a fish you were reeling in? What do you do with fish that has tail bitten off? Do you throw it back to the water? Do you realise that is illegal in most places as well?

BTW I fish Bury Hill fisheries quite often and am in very good terms with guys over there.

Quite a few times people over here mention the same thing. They are braking the law and they will keep breaking it and apparently I should do the same as it seems to be the norm here in UK. How messed up is that?

Either way, the day is finishing and I have completely lost interest in this topic since, once again, majority of people (same people may I add) are too blind to open their minds or god forbid admit they are doing something wrong. Still though, I am happy this topic is now here for future anglers to read as I think it is interesting and it shows the general opinion/mood in angling there is in UK.

Tomino over and out, I think it will be better if I leave you here and dont try to start any out-of-the-bounds discussions.

 

[markcw]

There are many serious threads which arise but, in fairness, I think many people come here to escape the serious side of life and you can't knock 'em for that.

You never know what's happening in people's lives or when they just might need a diversion.

Fishing in general is a bit like that for me, whenever I start to take it too seriously I tend to find the fun diminishes.

Steve, you have got it in one for me, when I did the "going through the motions" thread, each time I was going I was taking it too serious and competing with myself so to speak, and the fun went out of it, I never thought of that until I read your post, Thanks :clap2: Let the Fun begin again..

 

[tomino2112]

There are many serious threads which arise but, in fairness, I think many people come here to escape the serious side of life and you can't knock 'em for that.

You never know what's happening in people's lives or when they just might need a diversion.

Fishing in general is a bit like that for me, whenever I start to take it too seriously I tend to find the fun diminishes.

And that is mainly my point. Because for me the fun diminishes often the moment I arrive to the water. The constant "Do you know we dont keep fish here?" "Your kind from Europe dont know the rules I dont think you know how to fish here" "I know you are fine but you know all the other bloody europeans" "yo! do you have ticket? because I know your europeans are not buying tickets" etc etc. Hardly enjoyable...

 

[103841]

deleted, duplication.