Tired of being abused by know-it-alls

[sam vimes]

Chris,

Perhaps I worded my post poorly. I often find it problematic trying to decipher the meaning behind text as it has a tendency to be misread. My interpretation of some of the responses are that they are a little accusatory. Whether that was the intention or not is unclear, just how I read it. I'm not suggesting it was you who did so.

Fair enough.

I understand your point entirely, it obviously happens, I personally do not agree with it. But to each their own, if it is within the laws of the land and with the agreement of the riparian owner; who am I to disagree. The difference here is that the fish shouldn't have been and wasn't returned in accordance with the rules. I think this is more of a debate over morality than anything else.

From my perspective, it's not about morality or the law. It's simply about different angling ethos clashing.
I rather think Tomino is anything but daft (for a start, his written English is as good as, or better than, most natives) and knows exactly what he's about, in both posting on here and dispatching the zander. I feel that he knows full well that both actions are likely to be inflammatory to some, but it's done safe in the full knowledge that he's operating entirely within the law. If I were being unkind, I'd suggest that he's being wilfully provocative. Being kind, I'd suggest naivety. That's not excusing the Neanderthals, nor their ignorance of the law, in any way. It's rather like someone dressing up as Jimmy Savile, going for a wander round Stoke Mandeville, and pretending to be surprised when you get a bad reaction. Nothing illegal would have taken place, but pretending that you didn't realise what might happen rings a little hollow, especially when you are rather obviously an intelligent bloke.

Unfortunately, the Neanderthals wouldn't be much more irate if he wandered down a towpath, with seine nets over his shoulder, singing this song (with an obviously eastern European accent).

 

[markcw]

he also said "before I go to fish a venue I make sure I am familiar with all the rules and I expect everyone to do the same,
especially if they have the need to come up to someone and confront them"
Two points ...1) "confront them".... being confrontational with someone
2) would he have agreed with the rules that the fishery owner had posted saying
No Dogs, No Children , No east Europeans,
these were in place because of the problems he had encountered, and was made to take them down by an EE who started a crowdfunding page to finance it, The ironic thing was the person who made it happen did not live in the area and said "how could I tell my son I cant take him fishing here" or words to that effect, He couldn't anyway because the sign said no children
I know this has gone slightly off topic, but tomino seems a stickler for rules, I was wondering what he would have done if he had gone to that fishery and seen the notice ? abide by the rules or become confrontational ??

 

[Another Dave]

Sam your post made me laugh, Savile indeed. Give it a few more decades and little kids will be dressing as him to go trick or treating.

One thing that's clear from this thread is that the English aren't particularly interested in following the letter of the law, and that's a thing i like about this place.

 

[Philip]

It appears to me that the OPs gripe is basically he is being singled out as a European by the locals.

Yet at the same time he also appears to delight in shoving carefully reserched & little known bylaws that literally everyone locally ignores in your face.

Cause & effect ?

Yes I think so.

 

[thecrow]

"So I have had to limit my fishing in UK because of the constant abuse I have to endure due to my appearance (European)"

His attitude does other EE anglers no favours at all, I have known EE anglers that have no problems at all but then I don't fish where I would encounter any yobs.

 

[markcw]

I always thought you needed the permission from the landowner to take fish from an enclosed fishery
including canals. So if you catch a zander, do you return it if the no permission is given?
OR take it out ? in both cases you risk breaking the law. I think the theft of fish act can come into things
with other types of fishery.Also as Chris pointed out, his written English is as good or better than most natives,
I would say many people who lived/worked abroad unless they have been there some years and are fluent
in that countries language could post things as eloquently as he does,
So is he English pretending to be European ? and wanting to be controversial ?

 

[Another Dave]

So is he English pretending to be European ? and wanting to be controversial ?

That was my initial thought but he's posted before in what certainly looks like good faith.

 

[steve2]

So is he English pretending to be European ? and wanting to be controversial ?

This is the problem with forums very few know anything about the people they are talking to. Who am I, no body knows who I really am?

 

[tomino2112]

So is he English pretending to be European ? and wanting to be controversial ?

I think you are onto something there mate

I know I have said I will stay away from this thread but possibly couple last comments - Visibly I have grown upset about the experience probably influenced by other stuff going on and so yes it is possible that small part of me wanted to cause controversy. But I cannot agree that me talking to you guys would do no good to European (read foreign) anglers or that I had bad intentions in mind.

Two things to take away from this discussion:

1) Me and others being constantly reminded of our non-uk origin and the fact that we must not be familiar with angling laws and rules of this country
This has been discussed over and over here and elsewhere. Just because couple of people say its not true does not make it go away. Why do I always jump on this discussion? Because it directly affects me and because I am not the type of person that can just brush it off and keep quiet (unfortunately I suppose...)

2) People are not aware of laws and rules yet feel the need to educate others.
This was my initial point of this post - now I realise I shouldn't have mentioned anything about nationality - and I still stand by what I said. Returning Zander to Canals is an offence for a reason and if people do care about UK waterways and creatures living in it, they should follow the laws. Everyone should realise that these rules have research backing them and whatever you think is or isn't right is just your opinion without the knowledge and data required for it to be objective.

And one last note about me personally being happy to or using the law as an excuse to take fish for the pot, it is simply untrue. I have made a bloody mess cleaning that Zander, it was not very tasty and in general I enjoy looking at them swimming by rather than grilled on my plate. I am not big on eating fish but if I have to kill one then I am not going to waste it.

 

[thecrow]

if people do care about UK waterways and creatures living in it, they should follow the laws.

Sorry wont be doing that and I find it ironic that the law was found on the CRT site, they should be looking nearer to home when it comes to caring for the fish in canals, they have a lot to answer for as far as disappearing carp are concerned (don't ask I wont tell)

They haven't a clue about Zander only what they are told, here's a bit from their site.

Heavily boated canals or deep rivers are great places to catch zander." Wow who would have thought they can be caught from where they live, other waters are available

 

[sam vimes]

1) Me and others being constantly reminded of our non-uk origin

There's a big issue here. You constantly make a point of telling us of your non-UK origin. It's a forum, you type in perfectly good English, no one would have the faintest idea of your origins if you didn't repeatedly mention them. It may be different on the banks, where your appearance and accent might give you away, but it just doesn't wash on a forum. I'm afraid that you appear rather keen to play the victim. You are anything but stupid, you are playing this game intelligently, you've done your research and know exactly where you stand. Using ignoramuses ignorance against them, exposing them as ignorant fools, but to what end? You tell us that you are tired and upset by confrontation yet come across as to be deliberately looking for it. Please stop peeing on our backs and telling us it's raining, it doesn't wash. You are far too intelligent for me to believe that any of this is really a surprise to you.

Sadly, in the real world, there are always going to be an element of knuckle dragging idiots. They are likely to be totally ignorant of the intricacies of the current laws/bye laws, that you have sensibly made yourself well aware of. I'm as English as most, and have been on the receiving end of abuse from angler unfamiliar with local byelaws myself. Plenty of long standing, reasonably intelligent, anglers aren't really aware of the more obscure byelaws. Add in a dollop of xenophobia and you've got a recipe for confrontation before you do anything much to provoke the knuckle dragger's ire.

Fortunately, I live in an area that has remained stubbornly free from zander and other invasive species (and canals, come to think of it). The dilemma of whether I should obey the law, by knocking a zander or wels on the head, or break the law by returning one, is not a decision I'm ever likely to have to make.

 

[Philip]

I think the OP sees himself as some sort of misunderstood crusader of law & order, a sort of angling Batman.

...His utility belt loaded with a priest, plastic carrier bag and well thumbed copy of little known angling bylaws 2018

 

[tomino2112]

I think the OP sees himself as some sort of misunderstood crusader of law & order, a sort of angling Batman.

...His utility belt loaded with a priest, plastic carrier bag and well thumbed copy of little known angling bylaws 2018

I rather like the picture you have painted

In all seriousness though I did not intend for anything so serious. I was just sharing my frustration same as you could share "Blanked three times in a row" kind of thing.

 

[swizzle]

I think the OP sees himself as some sort of misunderstood crusader of law & order, a sort of angling Batman.

...His utility belt loaded with a priest, plastic carrier bag and well thumbed copy of little known angling bylaws 2018

It wouldn't be a plastic bag. We have the environment to think of.

 

[markcw]

I think you are onto something there mate

I know I have said I will stay away from this thread but possibly couple last comments - Visibly I have grown upset about the experience probably influenced by other stuff going on and so yes it is possible that small part of me wanted to cause controversy. But I cannot agree that me talking to you guys would do no good to European (read foreign) anglers or that I had bad intentions in mind.

Two things to take away from this discussion:

1) Me and others being constantly reminded of our non-uk origin and the fact that we must not be familiar with angling laws and rules of this country
This has been discussed over and over here and elsewhere. Just because couple of people say its not true does not make it go away. Why do I always jump on this discussion? Because it directly affects me and because I am not the type of person that can just brush it off and keep quiet (unfortunately I suppose...)

2) People are not aware of laws and rules yet feel the need to educate others.
This was my initial point of this post - now I realise I shouldn't have mentioned anything about nationality - and I still stand by what I said. Returning Zander to Canals is an offence for a reason and if people do care about UK waterways and creatures living in it, they should follow the laws. Everyone should realise that these rules have research backing them and whatever you think is or isn't right is just your opinion without the knowledge and data required for it to be objective.

And one last note about me personally being happy to or using the law as an excuse to take fish for the pot, it is simply untrue. I have made a bloody mess cleaning that Zander, it was not very tasty and in general I enjoy looking at them swimming by rather than grilled on my plate. I am not big on eating fish but if I have to kill one then I am not going to waste it.

That is the first time I have been called Mate, by an EE, it is usually friend or my friend.
In an earlier post you said you really enjoyed the zander, so make your mind up.
Also seeing as you are a stickler for RULES being upheld, you never commented on what you would have
done if you had arrived at the fishery who had RULES on his notice board which included No Dogs,
No Children and No East Europeans, would you have abided by them and walked away or become confrontational ??
I am still not convinced you are European, going by posts on here and another fishing forum you are a member of.

 

[markcw]

I think the OP sees himself as some sort of misunderstood crusader of law & order, a sort of angling Batman.

...His utility belt loaded with a priest, plastic carrier bag and well thumbed copy of little known angling bylaws 2018

I think you may have misspelt Batman or was it a similar sounding word beginning with T you were thinking of ?

 

[swizzle]

I'm fairly convinced that this chap is of Slavic descent. Whilst his written English is very good, he does miss connections like A and the occasional an. This is typical of most Slavic speakers of English. If I was a gambling man, I'd put money on him being Polish, Slovakian or Czech.

Colloquialisms are picked up by European migrants and I have many European friends that refer to me as mate. I am 95% sure that he isn't British.

 

[thecrow]

In all seriousness though I did not intend for anything so serious. I was just sharing my frustration same as you could share "Blanked three times in a row" kind of thing.

I have doubts that you didn't realise the sort of response you would get on here, your initial thread starter almost guaranteed that the thread would be confrontational. You said.

So I have had to limit my fishing in UK because of the constant abuse I have to endure due to my appearance (European) but couple of weeks ago I have decided to have a go at a bit of canal fishing.


If you do receive constant abuse how many times has it been reported to the police?

What is it about your appearance that makes you think you get abuse because of it?

Why go fishing if you get constant abuse, is it all from other anglers or is it from the public in general?



What I didn't expect was group of three half-drunk UKs



How did you know that they were UKs as you put it? plenty of people live in this country that have none UK family but they have grown up in the UK and may not have an accent other than a local one. I would suggest that the comment was one that was designed to cause confrontation.


I had to continue with this confrontation for about 45 minutes.


Why did you have to continue the confrontation? could you not have walked away or is it the truth that you enjoy confrontation something that you admit in another post was partly the reason for this thread?



Why does it have to be like this here?


Could it be possible that the bad among the EEs that " fish" here have played a part in how peoples opinions have been formed?

This purposely confrontational thread has imo done nothing to help other EE anglers that just fish and return their catch, that don't poach fish for the pot by allsorts of means and I don't think I need to explain what those other methods are.


[BI can be only thankful that people think twice about getting physical with me][/B]


You didn't mention anything physical in your first post but this is not the first time that you have intimated on here that you are well able to look after yourself, in these days it would be foolish to think that physical confrontation would be what you think of it as. I have no idea why you would even post that.


Goes without saying, I will think twice before going fishing again...


Maybe it would be better to think twice about where you fish rather than if you go fishing, I don't know if you drive but there must be fisheries in your area where if you didn't look for anything confrontational you wouldn't find it, you never know you just might start to realise that your appearance has nothing to do with any abuse you constantly receive.

 

[binka]

I think the OP sees himself as some sort of misunderstood crusader of law & order, a sort of angling Batman.

...His utility belt loaded with a priest, plastic carrier bag and well thumbed copy of little known angling bylaws 2018

That's very unlike you, conjuring up names and bowling a personally aimed snide at someone whilst overlooking what could well be very genuine concerns irrespective of whether or not you agree with them :wh

What do we call you then?

'Carp Man'?

Complete with large triangular 'CM' logo emblazoned across a tightly fitting T shirt and matching tights?

Maybe we should do away with the utility belt and replace it with a rucksack containing a hundred weight of boilies and a portable aerator?

Not particularly nice, is it?

If you have an issue with the op's views then at least have the testicular fortitude to take argument with those views and offer some retrospective opinion, as many have done, instead of a flimsy attempt to ridicule him...

Otherwise it might just backfire on you.

 

[no-one in particular]

I'm fairly convinced that this chap is of Slavic descent. Whilst his written English is very good, he does miss connections like A and the occasional an. This is typical of most Slavic speakers of English. If I was a gambling man, I'd put money on him being Polish, Slovakian or Czech.

Colloquialisms are picked up by European migrants and I have many European friends that refer to me as mate. I am 95% sure that he isn't British.

A selfie would settle it!