Angling books that should have been written

[Poshpaul (Angling Trust and PaSC)]

Re: Angling books that should be written

I'd like to see an angling book which follows a river from source to sea indicating who has fishing rights be that private, club or free, updated every couple of seasons.

I've a copy of the Angling Times Book of the Severn which went some way towards what you're suggesting bottle.

Another volume I have is one of a limited series published by Cassels. These books were more of a journey down a river from source to mouth..not focusing on the fishing. I have the "Hampshire Avon" volume.

Could I also recommend "Sweet Thames Run Softly" by Robert Giddings....there's a new edition come out with a foreward by Luke Jennings the author of "Bloodknots"

 

[flightliner]

Quote:
Originally Posted by flightliner
One thing that as intriqued me over the last few years was why did Eric hodgson leave the Northern group and form the Rockingham group?
Anyone here know?.

My mate Eric Hodson liked his name spelled properly, lol, I believe from the Northern he went onto the Rocking Group and later the Hallamshire group, sadly my old mate is no longer with us, but I know groups expire

Heres Eric on the ferry on our last French trip together, a gentleman to the end

I was in the Rockingham group for a number of years Monk, I never got round to asking Eric why he left the Northern and set up the Rocking HAM ( I thought someone might have had an answer as the Northern was still going when Eric left.
Yes, he was one of natures gentlemen--- loved driving FAST! very very sad when he passed away, I went to his funeral.

 

[The Monk]

I was in the Rockingham group for a number of years Monk, I never got round to asking Eric why he left the Northern and set up the Rocking HAM ( I thought someone might have had an answer as the Northern was still going when Eric left.
Yes, he was one of natures gentlemen--- loved driving FAST! very very sad when he passed away, I went to his funeral.

Yes very sad indeed, I was away and missed his funeral unfortunately, I believe two Northern Groups exisited at one point according to Barrie Rickards? Ron started the original one of course

 

[dezza]

The "Northern Group" that Barrie Rickards mentioned was not very well organised and was composed of among others, one Dug Taylor and another character called "Sharkbait Robbo".

Sharkbait used to use incredibly strong tackle, 100 lb bs lines and enormous sea hooks. He maintained that when he did hook that monstrous pike, it was: "Coming out mate it's coming out!" He was once seen fishing with over 10 livebaits on one line!

A split took place in the Northern Group at the end of 1966. A number of us joined in with Tag Barnes and formed the "Ridings Specimen Group". I left the country in August 1967 and Eric went his separate way. When I visited him in 1970, I learned that he was busy forming other groups as well as being involved with the British Carp Study Group, an organisation I am still a member of.

 

[Peter Jacobs]

as well as being involved with the British Carp Study Group, an organisation I am still a member of.

Is that a recent thing then Ron?

On August 28th on the Specialist Groups thread you said:

"I've also been invited to rejoin the British Carp Study Group. I was made a member in the early 70s by Eric Hodson.

 

[dezza]

Semantics.

I recently discovered that in theory at least, I am still a member of the BCSG. I never resigned from it, nor was my membership terminated. The man who can vouch fully for this is unfortunately deceased.

And what the heck has such a fact to do with you? Haven't you got better things to do rather than slur my character?

 

[Peter Jacobs]

Far better things old boy, sadly I am blessed (or is that cursed) with a terrific memory . . . . .

But, no perjorative intended Ron, simply attempting to clarify conflicting information, that's all . . . . . .

 

[flightliner]

A split took place in the Northern Group at the end of 1966. A number of us joined in with Tag Barnes and formed the "Ridings Specimen Group".

Interesting-- so you founded the Northern group but some years later saw fit to leave and join a new group because of a split, but Eric didnt but went on to start the Rockingham group.
This is all new to me, I,d like to be enlightened further, what was the reasons for members going in differant directions.

 

[dezza]

Interesting-- so you founded the Northern group but some years later saw fit to leave and join a new group because of a split, but Eric didnt but went on to start the Rockingham group.
This is all new to me, I,d like to be enlightened further, what was the reasons for members going in differant directions.

I didn't leave the NSG, I had my membership terminated.

This resulted in a sizable chunk of the members also leaving, most of which followed myself and we forrmed the Ridings Group. What Eric did I am not sure as I wasn't around then, but he did go onto form the Rockingham Group, and may have had something to do with the Hallamshire Group too.

I never spent too much time discussing the negative aspects of the early big fish movement with Eric, suffice to say that I was kicked out of the Northern Group regarding a technicality in one of the many articles I was writing then.

But I never fell out with Eric.

 

[flightliner]

I was kicked out of the Northern Group regarding a technicality in one of the many articles I was writing then.

But I never fell out with Eric.

That article must have been very controversial, what was the point of contention?

 

[dezza]

That article must have been very controversial, what was the point of contention?

Actually it was a fiddly little technicality at the time.

Read my book - all will be revealed.

One of the aspects of writing this book is to obtain the facts. The problem is that most, if not all of the guys I went fishing with in the UK and Ireland in the 50s and 60s are either deceased or are very ill.

One of my friends may remember some aspects of those times, although he gave up fishing many years ago.

When I formed the group I think I was the youngest of the lot. The average age was around 24, I was 20.

 

[flightliner]

Quote:
Originally Posted by flightliner
That article must have been very controversial, what was the point of contention?

Actually it was a fiddly little technicality at the time.

Read my book - all will be revealed.

One of the aspects of writing this book is to obtain the facts. The problem is that most, if not all of the guys I went fishing with in the UK and Ireland in the 50s and 60s are either deceased or are very ill.

One of my friends may remember some aspects of those times, although he gave up fishing many years ago.

When I formed the group I think I was the youngest of the lot. The average age was around 24, I was 20.

At the start of this thread I kind of agreed with Mark Wintle that a book of this nature was only worth maybe a few short pages or a short article. I,ve sort of revised my opinion a little . The reasons being that it may contian not just an overall surface veiw of what was /did take place in the group scene back then but some of the lesser known scenarios that obviously took place.
In any group of people there are lots of differing opinions and most certainly infighting and face to face confrontations, some of which you seem to have been at the front of, I mean-- starting up a group only to be thrown out must have been a shock to say the least, especially as you say it was "a fiddly little technicality"-- which seems, if true, that your co-members must have been rather harsh in their actions but still felt justified.
The thing that I feel will be hard for you is that you left these shores in what--'66/7? and was away from things save for the odd trip back and the odd read miles and miles away for what --thirty odd yearsor so and missed so much of what went on. Up to '67 what you write may be what you know to be correct but afterwards any referance to the group scene will be very hard without a lot of first hand research and, remember, there are hundreds and hundreds of guys who are still around that did the "group thing" after the '67 date of your leaving.
Many may feel that what you put down as fact may not be what they saw, did, catch, etx etx so I look forward to some of your revalations (I wont buy any book on the subject tho but hey!).
As you say most of your (and my) contemporaries are no longer with us (tho I do know one or two) so I sincerely hope that your efforts are not swayed by this and be biased in any way so it loses its integrity which would be a shame.
My own opinion tho is that the group scene was merely a brief moment in time when guys looking to catch bigger fish (in the main) joined on account of some uncertainty as to how to move forward. It seemed to flourish for a number of years then more or less died a bit of a death and is ,to me at least consigned to a corner someplace-- granted one or two still survive but everything you need to know these days is in the comics.

 

[Berty]

I think groups became "fashonable" because there were so many waters available and so little known about them.

In my own case i was fishing the likes of what are now either closed syndicates, very expensive day ticket waters or exclusive stretches of river that we had gained permission to fish, these included waters such as the Oxford and Bedfordshire pits plus salmon stretches of the Wye plus many others.

The fishing was much more virgin then and hope ran high, we knew little of what was in the waters but by having a circle of friends who were of the same ilk we did at times have some knowledge passed on.

But sometimes we see things through rose coloured specs and groups were also used as rungs up the ladder of angling fame for mediocre anglers who just followed success around, most of those anglers wouldn't have helped anyone if it meant they didnt get the limelight.

Groups were a both good and bad and jealousy was rife!

 

[nicepix]

One of the reasons why a record of specimen hunting groups can never be properly written is that unlike all match anglers where their fishing and weighing of their catch is under constant scrutiny, many specimen hunters tend to fish alone and their skills and catches often cannot be verified to everyone's satisfaction. There are also major divisions within the groups. Some are pathfinders, others are spongers and rely other's hard work, some are open about their techniques and innovation, others are secretive. There is no wonder why so many groups split and reform in different ways.

Another reason is that the public live for today, not yesterday and unless you are current, then you are nobody

 

[chub_on_the_block]

I do wonder what proportion of specimen fish ever get reported - or what proportion of specimen anglers actually report what they catch. Even if its a record, i would guess only 60% would consider submitting a claim - even back in the day when claims were more likely to be made.

Most of the time it is about discovering or stumbling on a special water and sharing the knowledge with fishing companions etc. If you are in a specimen group with others who are keen to publicise their catches it might not be a good idea sharing information. Most of what is written or shared in public is by individuals who want the limelight, that may even be the reason they are specimen hunters.

Match fishing is (or was) a completely different scenario where the cream can be seen to rise to the top and the conditions are equal for all taking part. I think the best match anglers had more authenticity about it than the biggest names in the specimen hunting game, as the latter are self selecting and self publicist, but i am more interested in what the specimen hunters can produce than the match anglers.

As for the disinterest in angling history, i am always interested in the history of the waters i know and what they were once capable of producing (in part because that potential may one day return). Whilst there is secrecy in the accounts of specimen catches whilst they are ongoing, it would be good if 20 years later or whatever the history could be opened and properly documented for those who werent "in the know" at the time. Mark Wintle's roach book is a good example here - the true number of 2Ib+ roach that were caught in the Dorset rivers back in the 1980s or 1990s was grossly under-reported at the time as the few "in the know" did a good job keeping it quiet and few catches ever made it into the angling press.

 

[904_cannon]

Coincidence really, but when four of us (CSG members) were traveling back 'upt north' after the funeral of fellow Group member Graham Cornish earlier this year, conversation got round to how maybe someone really should write up the history of specimen angling from its early days to the present day.

The history of the CSG is now complete (and interestingly there are only two references to anything that could be considered 'ungentlemanly') and I'm sure other SS and specimen groups could likewise have a detailed history. All it needs is for some brave soul to pick it up and run with it If it is to be done it had better be sooner rather than later. I'm pretty confident there would be a big demand, especially if it was a limited run, with leather-bounds.

In hindsight we (CSG) could have sold three times the number of 'Chevin' we published and had printed almost two years go. That was all done 'in house' with just a reputable printer being used for the finished job.

 

[dezza]

The book I am working on does not have the early days of specimen hunting as it's main theme. Purely a single chapter one the aspects of the big fish scene in the late 50s and 60s up to 1967.

But these were the formulative years.

I went on to be involved with the formulative years of what is now termed: "Specimen Angling" in South Africa. Added to that I was part of a group of anglers who popularised fly fishing in that country, not only for trout but for many other species.

I was there for 27 years, my formulative years in fact.

But I did keep close contact with the angling scene in the UK, especially through my friend Eric Hodson.

And let me say that although we had a few differences of opinion, mostly regarding politics, never a cross word ever took place between Eric and myself.

---------- Post added at 01:18 ---------- Previous post was at 00:48 ----------

But getting back to the title of this thread.

If there is one book that has never been written, but should, may I, with temerity, suggest the following title:

"My Way with the Tidal Trent"

And we don't have to look very far to find the author of such a work.

But somehow I doubt if this book will ever be written. It would give away too many secrets, wouldn't it?

 

[Peter Jacobs]

It would give away too many secrets, wouldn't it?

What, like when to start queueing for Pegs 1 and 1A at Cromwell weir?

Collingham Angling Association

 

[guest61]

may I, with temerity, suggest the following title:
"My Way with the Tidal Trent"
And we don't have to look very far to find the author of such a work.

I reject your temerity and substitute my own title.

'A small eternity on the tidal Trent"..

and the author should be Peter Sharpe - he of 'fishy tales'

 

[dezza]

What, like when to start queueing for Pegs 1 and 1A at Cromwell weir?

The only picture that impresses me among that lot is the roach taken from peg 40.

I took a similar fish a few years ago at 1lb 7oz, from peg 42. I don't claim any credit of course, I was after barbel.

You can virtually fish anywhere at Collingham without queuing if you keep well clear of Fridays Saturdays and Sundays.

---------- Post added at 02:16 ---------- Previous post was at 02:05 ----------

Coincidence really, but when four of us (CSG members) were traveling back 'upt north' after the funeral of fellow Group member Graham Cornish earlier this year, conversation got round to how maybe someone really should write up the history of specimen angling from its early days to the present day.

There is a man who could do that, with a bit of help of course:

Kevin Clifford.

His histories of Carp Fishing are truly top class.

And on a point of order, you don't have to have been there to have the qualifications to write about a subject. I can think of several people who have written about the history of England who were never alive at the Battle of Hastings, or even WW2, who have compiled excellent historic works in their time.

The ability to research well is the main qualification, and Kevin Clifford is probably best able to do that of all angling writers around today.