For the introduction of non-lethal means of control of the Otter

[binka]

And Steve what do your daughters and there jobs have to do with it

Maybe it's an equality thing and Peter should have written AWM/W/LBGT?

And let's face it, we all know how angry women can be...

 

[jasonbean1]

WTF PMSLmg:

 

[Steve Pope]

Jason,

If I have to explain it, I’m wasting my time on here......

 

[jasonbean1]

Come on Steve I can't see anyone having a go at you on here, trouble is I think you may have got too used to Facebook, closed communities and blocked comments to understand what the wider feelings are on this petition.

And by the way I signed it but after seeing Des Taylor last night I wish I hadn't.

 

[Steve Pope]

Jason,

With the utmost respect you are missing the point.

This is a question of someone being too clever for their own good.

I’m seeing a lot of that lately but coming from Peter this is particularly offensive. Peter is a moderator and what he has written is against the sites rules!
It may be about interpretation but being too clever you sometimes trip up, as in this case.

If I’m alone in thinking that then I will remove myself permanently from Fishing Magic.

 

[thecrow]

Not that it has anything to do with the petition but to suggest that those that organised it or those that have signed it are angry white men is in my opinion not a term that should be used here or anywhere else for that matter.

My wife having seen some of the destruction of both fish and other protected creatures thankfully only in pictures/videos has signed the petition, she is not an angler she is though a lover of wildlife and understands that predators take prey to survive, she is certainly not an angry white man or even an angry white woman just someone that understands that the ratio of predators to prey has been upset by yet more interference by man.

 

[mikench]

Please answer my question! What does AWM mean? I cannot see you attracting many voters with your responses thus far!

 

[thecrow]

If I’m alone in thinking that then I will remove myself permanently from Fishing Magic.

No you are not alone in thinking that, its a racist comment, would it have been allowed should it have been ABM?

 

[thecrow]

Please answer my question! What does AWM mean? I cannot see you attracting many voters with your responses thus far!

Mike it means Angry White Men/man.

 

[mikench]

Thanks Graham! I would never have guessed that particularly within the context of a petition for the non lethal control of otters!

What relevance does the colour and ethic origin of fisherman have to do with otters!

As I have said this thread has most definitely lost its way!

 

[jasonbean1]

Trouble is Steve for people such as me that are sitting in the middle on the otter debate to see the interview last didn't do your cause any favours.

Pete's interpretation is how I saw it, not on your part but you were beside Des and his tub thumping preaching to the converted made it come across as you are a double act.

And it's a shame you don't post on here more often...personally I can't stand Facebook and I don't think I'll ever be too concerned about it.

 

[lutra]

How to avoid anglers, given the chronic frustrations endured by those looking to rivers for their sport, being tempted to back single-interest groups holding out simple solutions to complex problems?

Point out paths to solutions which are adequate to the problems, convincing and offer realistic hopes of success.

I don't intend this sarcastically, but literally: what, in the view of those most eloquent in claiming a broader grasp of the complex picture and in seeking to educate anglers that otters are not part of the problem, is/are the way(s) forward, and in what should anglers invest their support, energies and trust?

Accepting that demonising otters won't help, what, in practical terms, will?

I don't believe any more can, should or will be done with otters than already is. You can put a fence around your private fishery and get them kicked out if you want. Beyond that like it or not their part of our native wildlife and people like them.

If anglers want something to kickoff about, try pollution. That's the number one problem on most English rivers and with very poor natural fish recruitment because of it, one of the reasons otters are making a such a mess on some rivers.

Anglers need to get it in their heads that 20lb barbel and 8lb chub are not the sign of a good river. More one that is on its last legs and in a poor way.


The best thing we can give angling of the future is clean rivers with naturally recruiting fish stocks. Yes it will probably mean smaller fish like yesteryear, but rivers that predators can eat their dinner from and not make a difference to.

 

[thecrow]

As I have said this thread has most definitely lost its way

Perhaps this will get it back on track?







Not all about fish imo

 

[The bad one]

Phil,can you tell me what otters are eating on the Ribble?

The full gambit of what's available to them as an apex predator. Fish, duck, small mammals including mink, frogs, toads, etc ..... and babies according to some .

The Ribble is a spate river and as close to a sustainable system as you are likely to get these days Alan. It's also vastly different than the lowland river systems of the Gt Ouse, Nene, etc. The vast majority of it's agricultural activity is rough pasture land supporting mainly sheep and dairy farming for the last flat 10+ miles of its course to the estuary. Its population along its course and catchment is small in comparison to the Gt Ouse catchment.

That said it does have some problems, cormorants and gooseander are daily visitors to it, how long it's buffering and robustness can and will withstand their onslaught is yet to be seen. But it's been happening for over 30+ years and it's robustness has stood up so far. It's also under a management programme on a catchment wide basis for them, with most landowners and clubs involved in that programme.

Farm slurry run off does happen from time to time but is usually detected very quickly and dealt with by the EA IPC officers.

There are a lot of people and organisations on the ball enough Alan to try and keep the Ribble from descending to levels other rivers across the country have.

 

[lutra]

Yep that's nature for you me old crow. Its full of death and things eating things, very slowly and alive sometimes.

 

[nottskev]

I don't believe any more can, should or will be done with otters than already is. You can put a fence around your private fishery and get them kicked out if you want. Beyond that like it or not their part of our native wildlife and people like them.

If anglers want something to kickoff about, try pollution. That's the number one problem on most English rivers and with very poor natural fish recruitment because of it, one of the reasons otters are making a such a mess on some rivers.

Anglers need to get it in their heads that 20lb barbel and 8lb chub are not the sign of a good river. More one that is on its last legs and in a poor way.


The best thing we can give angling of the future is clean rivers with naturally recruiting fish stocks. Yes it will probably mean smaller fish like yesteryear, but rivers that predators can eat their dinner from and not make a difference to.

Thanks for the answer. My question wasn't what else can be done about otters - I did make it clear I'm prepared to accept they are a side-issue.

I've got it in my head that 20lb barbel and 8lb chub are not the yardsticks, and there's nothing in my posts that suggests I have unreal expectations - I've been posting about how happy I'd be to encounter any coarse fish - roach, dace, perch, chublets - on my local Derwent stretches where anglers catch nothing but grayling these days, if that.

My question was, and sorry if it's a large one, what do those who urge a broader more conservationist and ecological take on otters - and I don't dissent from that - see as the more relevant and effective means and tactics for anglers to press for improvement to the wider issue of "sick" rivers?.

To take your example - how should we "kick off" about pollution? Do we have any effective channels? Any influential organisations? I'm asking, quite literally, what can we do, since so far in this thread we've been debating, according to authoritative -sounding posters, a dead-end idea.

It would be less depressing to hear about some better ways to put our shared frustrations about "sick rivers" to some effect.

 

[Graham Elliott 1]

At least the BS has moved on from the old bearded one saying Otters cause no problem.

 

[thecrow]

To take your example - how should we "kick off" about pollution?

I have no idea myself Kev as those that proudly boast that they represent anglers have and continue to use finance from one of if not the biggest polluter in the country, hypocrisy? doesn't come close to describing it.

Its very easy to criticise what someone is trying to do but its a bit more difficult when it comes to idea's of how to get something done about the others things that affect our rivers.

 

[Cliff Hatton]

Peter: I don't see the relevance or the appropriateness of the AWM comment. Perhaps if you could explain your use of the term I - and others - might feel better informed.

 

[108831]

Personally I would like to see my rivers with normal populations of average sized fish,getting a feather in my cap isn't the reason I go fishing,catching net sized fish is,I would have thought crayfish don't like the effects of agriculture either,but they thrive unfortunately, I would happily take the Ouse back 25 years or more,when there were good heads of fish,one other point on the Ouse,it always produced good chub(comparing nationally),even back in **** Walkers days...